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Post by Skaathar on Apr 26, 2021 18:43:59 GMT
The blip is undone, and all of a sudden half the planet's population comes back. For these people, no time has passed. So they go home only to find someone else living in their house. They rightfully are pissed off and want these strangers out of their house. But for those people now living in that house, they've been living an incredibly hard life these last 5 years and they probably worked hard to have survived and be where they are now. If they get kicked out they'll have nowhere to go.
You're assigned as the head of the GRC. How would you have solved this conundrum?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 12:42:08 GMT
Hmm let me put my thinking cap on haha
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 12:50:44 GMT
I think the foundation is a bit puzzling to begin with. If I understand correctly, people crossed borders during the blip time gap. Thing is, wouldnt each country need their own people at the very beginning considering it's roughly half empty now? I hope that makes sense
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 27, 2021 13:01:59 GMT
The blip is undone, and all of a sudden half the planet's population comes back. For these people, no time has passed. So they go home only to find someone else living in their house. They rightfully are pissed off and want these strangers out of their house. But for those people now living in that house, they've been living an incredibly hard life these last 5 years and they probably worked hard to have survived and be where they are now. If they get kicked out they'll have nowhere to go. You're assigned as the head of the GRC. How would you have solved this conundrum? How? Their life was better than it's ever been. They moved for a better opportunity and they found it. I don't even know where to start. Seems harsh to evict current tenants and revert property rights back to the original owner, it wouldn't be fair to kick them out when they've been productive members of society. And that's not even half the problem being faced by the blipped, who were also members of that society before their lives were stolen from them by Thanos. What are they going to do for work? They're going to be swimming in red tape trying to get their lives back together, I don't know how they'd pay the bills even if you gave them back their homes. Meanwhile those who were left behind are now SOL because the blipped have returned to displace them. Both sides were screwed by this blip through no fault of their own. The only thing I can think of that would even be close to fair for everyone would be allowing the 'survivors' to stay where they are, and enacting legislation similar to covid relief for the blipped. Whether that be a percentage of their previous income in monthly installments, or a specific amount given to families who claim a blipped person as a dependent, something like that. The blipped would also remain free of previous debt, which doesn't make up for losing whatever personal wealth and property you had, but it's better than nothing. Perhaps a program for auto manufacturers to offer cars at incredibly discounted rates to blipped persons...or better yet, maybe they used this new era of alleged prosperity during the blip to upgrade infrastructure and public transportation worldwide? Speaking of infrastructure, I'd go the China route and start building brand new cities from scratch. (Or maybe massive expansion of selected cities?) Talk about a job creator as well as giving all the blipped a place to call home. Maybe these cities could be tax havens promoting tourism or settlement from those who weren't blipped, aiding economic growth and easing overpopulation in existing sectors. It isn't perfect, but it's a start. And of course any system you put into place will be manipulated by some to their advantage, but you have to accept that all formats have loopholes to be exploited. What this really tells me is that Tony once again was being selfish, putting his needs above literally everyone else on the planet. Why not just go back five years and stop Thanos? Your daughter would still be born, Tony. And you could retire from the Avengers and put your incredible brain and incredible wealth into solving problems faced by people every day, not just safeguarding them from the occasional alien invasion. Improve worldwide infrastructure; food, water and resource distribution; space exploration for potential lunar/Martian colonies (or oceanic exploration for potential seafloor colonies) because we're running out of real estate. Create new cleaner technologies which are safer for the environment and will again create new jobs. And his daughter would still be there to see him do it. It didn't have to be this complicated!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 13:06:49 GMT
Well first I would start with what happened to the other half of all that property? Some would be owned and empty. I guess they would be inherited by family members/next of kin, if no one then to the govt's hands it would go
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Post by Lux on Apr 27, 2021 16:10:32 GMT
The blip is undone, and all of a sudden half the planet's population comes back. For these people, no time has passed. So they go home only to find someone else living in their house. They rightfully are pissed off and want these strangers out of their house. But for those people now living in that house, they've been living an incredibly hard life these last 5 years and they probably worked hard to have survived and be where they are now. If they get kicked out they'll have nowhere to go. You're assigned as the head of the GRC. How would you have solved this conundrum? How? Their life was better than it's ever been. They moved for a better opportunity and they found it. I don't even know where to start. Seems harsh to evict current tenants and revert property rights back to the original owner, it wouldn't be fair to kick them out when they've been productive members of society. And that's not even half the problem being faced by the blipped, who were also members of that society before their lives were stolen from them by Thanos. What are they going to do for work? They're going to be swimming in red tape trying to get their lives back together, I don't know how they'd pay the bills even if you gave them back their homes. Meanwhile those who were left behind are now SOL because the blipped have returned to displace them. Both sides were screwed by this blip through no fault of their own. The only thing I can think of that would even be close to fair for everyone would be allowing the 'survivors' to stay where they are, and enacting legislation similar to covid relief for the blipped. Whether that be a percentage of their previous income in monthly installments, or a specific amount given to families who claim a blipped person as a dependent, something like that. The blipped would also remain free of previous debt, which doesn't make up for losing whatever personal wealth and property you had, but it's better than nothing. Perhaps a program for auto manufacturers to offer cars at incredibly discounted rates to blipped persons...or better yet, maybe they used this new era of alleged prosperity during the blip to upgrade infrastructure and public transportation worldwide? Speaking of infrastructure, I'd go the China route and start building brand new cities from scratch. (Or maybe massive expansion of selected cities?) Talk about a job creator as well as giving all the blipped a place to call home. Maybe these cities could be tax havens promoting tourism or settlement from those who weren't blipped, aiding economic growth and easing overpopulation in existing sectors. It isn't perfect, but it's a start. And of course any system you put into place will be manipulated by some to their advantage, but you have to accept that all formats have loopholes to be exploited. What this really tells me is that Tony once again was being selfish, putting his needs above literally everyone else on the planet. Why not just go back five years and stop Thanos? Your daughter would still be born, Tony. And you could retire from the Avengers and put your incredible brain and incredible wealth into solving problems faced by people every day, not just safeguarding them from the occasional alien invasion. Improve worldwide infrastructure; food, water and resource distribution; space exploration for potential lunar/Martian colonies (or oceanic exploration for potential seafloor colonies) because we're running out of real estate. Create new cleaner technologies which are safer for the environment and will again create new jobs. And his daughter would still be there to see him do it. It didn't have to be this complicated! If you brought the house of someone mysteriously taken by an unknown alien force then you probably shouldn't get too comfortable because either same could happen to you or they could come back. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 27, 2021 16:42:24 GMT
How? Their life was better than it's ever been. They moved for a better opportunity and they found it. I don't even know where to start. Seems harsh to evict current tenants and revert property rights back to the original owner, it wouldn't be fair to kick them out when they've been productive members of society. And that's not even half the problem being faced by the blipped, who were also members of that society before their lives were stolen from them by Thanos. What are they going to do for work? They're going to be swimming in red tape trying to get their lives back together, I don't know how they'd pay the bills even if you gave them back their homes. Meanwhile those who were left behind are now SOL because the blipped have returned to displace them. Both sides were screwed by this blip through no fault of their own. The only thing I can think of that would even be close to fair for everyone would be allowing the 'survivors' to stay where they are, and enacting legislation similar to covid relief for the blipped. Whether that be a percentage of their previous income in monthly installments, or a specific amount given to families who claim a blipped person as a dependent, something like that. The blipped would also remain free of previous debt, which doesn't make up for losing whatever personal wealth and property you had, but it's better than nothing. Perhaps a program for auto manufacturers to offer cars at incredibly discounted rates to blipped persons...or better yet, maybe they used this new era of alleged prosperity during the blip to upgrade infrastructure and public transportation worldwide? Speaking of infrastructure, I'd go the China route and start building brand new cities from scratch. (Or maybe massive expansion of selected cities?) Talk about a job creator as well as giving all the blipped a place to call home. Maybe these cities could be tax havens promoting tourism or settlement from those who weren't blipped, aiding economic growth and easing overpopulation in existing sectors. It isn't perfect, but it's a start. And of course any system you put into place will be manipulated by some to their advantage, but you have to accept that all formats have loopholes to be exploited. What this really tells me is that Tony once again was being selfish, putting his needs above literally everyone else on the planet. Why not just go back five years and stop Thanos? Your daughter would still be born, Tony. And you could retire from the Avengers and put your incredible brain and incredible wealth into solving problems faced by people every day, not just safeguarding them from the occasional alien invasion. Improve worldwide infrastructure; food, water and resource distribution; space exploration for potential lunar/Martian colonies (or oceanic exploration for potential seafloor colonies) because we're running out of real estate. Create new cleaner technologies which are safer for the environment and will again create new jobs. And his daughter would still be there to see him do it. It didn't have to be this complicated! If you brought the house of someone mysteriously taken by an unknown alien force then you probably shouldn't get too comfortable because either same could happen to you or they could come back. It's likely after five years the blipped had been legally declared dead. I wouldn't have expected them to come back. But as a homeowner who's put a ton of effort into improving the property that wasn't cheap to begin with, you better believe I'd want my house back if I got blipped. And that's just property ownership, how do you resolve rentals? If you're a landlord and you've been renting to a new tenant the last five years, you aren't going to let the old tenants move back into your building just because they were there first. It's incredibly complex and the simplest solution I can think of is the one I proposed. The blipped have the most to lose in that scenario, the least the government can do is provide some sort of financial aid to let them get back on their feet. As a blip (blipper, blippee, Blippi?), you're lucky to be alive I suppose-- it's the only way you can look at it. If you were stranded on an island for five years and assumed dead before suddenly reappearing, the bank isn't going to give you your house back; your boss isn't going to fire your replacement and rehire you, etc. You'd have to rebuild.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 27, 2021 16:45:58 GMT
The blip is undone, and all of a sudden half the planet's population comes back. For these people, no time has passed. So they go home only to find someone else living in their house. They rightfully are pissed off and want these strangers out of their house. But for those people now living in that house, they've been living an incredibly hard life these last 5 years and they probably worked hard to have survived and be where they are now. If they get kicked out they'll have nowhere to go. You're assigned as the head of the GRC. How would you have solved this conundrum? How? Their life was better than it's ever been. They moved for a better opportunity and they found it. I don't even know where to start. Seems harsh to evict current tenants and revert property rights back to the original owner, it wouldn't be fair to kick them out when they've been productive members of society. And that's not even half the problem being faced by the blipped, who were also members of that society before their lives were stolen from them by Thanos. What are they going to do for work? They're going to be swimming in red tape trying to get their lives back together, I don't know how they'd pay the bills even if you gave them back their homes. Meanwhile those who were left behind are now SOL because the blipped have returned to displace them. Both sides were screwed by this blip through no fault of their own. The only thing I can think of that would even be close to fair for everyone would be allowing the 'survivors' to stay where they are, and enacting legislation similar to covid relief for the blipped. Whether that be a percentage of their previous income in monthly installments, or a specific amount given to families who claim a blipped person as a dependent, something like that. The blipped would also remain free of previous debt, which doesn't make up for losing whatever personal wealth and property you had, but it's better than nothing. Perhaps a program for auto manufacturers to offer cars at incredibly discounted rates to blipped persons...or better yet, maybe they used this new era of alleged prosperity during the blip to upgrade infrastructure and public transportation worldwide? Speaking of infrastructure, I'd go the China route and start building brand new cities from scratch. (Or maybe massive expansion of selected cities?) Talk about a job creator as well as giving all the blipped a place to call home. Maybe these cities could be tax havens promoting tourism or settlement from those who weren't blipped, aiding economic growth and easing overpopulation in existing sectors. It isn't perfect, but it's a start. And of course any system you put into place will be manipulated by some to their advantage, but you have to accept that all formats have loopholes to be exploited. What this really tells me is that Tony once again was being selfish, putting his needs above literally everyone else on the planet. Why not just go back five years and stop Thanos? Your daughter would still be born, Tony. And you could retire from the Avengers and put your incredible brain and incredible wealth into solving problems faced by people every day, not just safeguarding them from the occasional alien invasion. Improve worldwide infrastructure; food, water and resource distribution; space exploration for potential lunar/Martian colonies (or oceanic exploration for potential seafloor colonies) because we're running out of real estate. Create new cleaner technologies which are safer for the environment and will again create new jobs. And his daughter would still be there to see him do it. It didn't have to be this complicated! So you'd kick out the original owners of the house in favor of the new ones? Interesting. Keep in mind that the people who moved in might not have even paid for the house, since I assume there would have been plenty spare houses to go around. But the original owners would have been the ones to purchase that house in the beginning. Might even be a family home passed down through generations.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 27, 2021 16:56:21 GMT
How? Their life was better than it's ever been. They moved for a better opportunity and they found it. I don't even know where to start. Seems harsh to evict current tenants and revert property rights back to the original owner, it wouldn't be fair to kick them out when they've been productive members of society. And that's not even half the problem being faced by the blipped, who were also members of that society before their lives were stolen from them by Thanos. What are they going to do for work? They're going to be swimming in red tape trying to get their lives back together, I don't know how they'd pay the bills even if you gave them back their homes. Meanwhile those who were left behind are now SOL because the blipped have returned to displace them. Both sides were screwed by this blip through no fault of their own. The only thing I can think of that would even be close to fair for everyone would be allowing the 'survivors' to stay where they are, and enacting legislation similar to covid relief for the blipped. Whether that be a percentage of their previous income in monthly installments, or a specific amount given to families who claim a blipped person as a dependent, something like that. The blipped would also remain free of previous debt, which doesn't make up for losing whatever personal wealth and property you had, but it's better than nothing. Perhaps a program for auto manufacturers to offer cars at incredibly discounted rates to blipped persons...or better yet, maybe they used this new era of alleged prosperity during the blip to upgrade infrastructure and public transportation worldwide? Speaking of infrastructure, I'd go the China route and start building brand new cities from scratch. (Or maybe massive expansion of selected cities?) Talk about a job creator as well as giving all the blipped a place to call home. Maybe these cities could be tax havens promoting tourism or settlement from those who weren't blipped, aiding economic growth and easing overpopulation in existing sectors. It isn't perfect, but it's a start. And of course any system you put into place will be manipulated by some to their advantage, but you have to accept that all formats have loopholes to be exploited. What this really tells me is that Tony once again was being selfish, putting his needs above literally everyone else on the planet. Why not just go back five years and stop Thanos? Your daughter would still be born, Tony. And you could retire from the Avengers and put your incredible brain and incredible wealth into solving problems faced by people every day, not just safeguarding them from the occasional alien invasion. Improve worldwide infrastructure; food, water and resource distribution; space exploration for potential lunar/Martian colonies (or oceanic exploration for potential seafloor colonies) because we're running out of real estate. Create new cleaner technologies which are safer for the environment and will again create new jobs. And his daughter would still be there to see him do it. It didn't have to be this complicated! So you'd kick out the original owners of the house in favor of the new ones? Interesting. Keep in mind that the people who moved in might not have even paid for the house, since I assume there would have been plenty spare houses to go around. But the original owners would have been the ones to purchase that house in the beginning. Might even be a family home passed down through generations. This is assuming legal ownership has been established by the new occupants. If they're squatting, they have to go. Doesn't matter how long the house was in the family; if they were declared dead and the new owners have a legal claim, it's theirs now.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 27, 2021 17:54:57 GMT
So you'd kick out the original owners of the house in favor of the new ones? Interesting. Keep in mind that the people who moved in might not have even paid for the house, since I assume there would have been plenty spare houses to go around. But the original owners would have been the ones to purchase that house in the beginning. Might even be a family home passed down through generations. This is assuming legal ownership has been established by the new occupants. If they're squatting, they have to go. Doesn't matter how long the house was in the family; if they were declared dead and the new owners have a legal claim, it's theirs now. If I remember correctly, it was mentioned in TFATWS that governments eagerly accepted immigrants in those 5 years because they were so desperate to have more helping hands. So I assume that immigrants were just granted a spare house instead of asking them to outright buy it. If my theory is correct, that means that the new occupants have legal ownership of the house because it was granted to them but they didn't actually pay for the house or work hard for it. So once the blipped come back, you now have a scenario of both sides legally owning the house, except only one party actually paid for the house. Personally, I'd prioritize the blipped (original owners) over the new immigrants even if only due to pure population numbers, as there would be far more of the blipped than there would be immigrants. So from a pure numbers perspective, it would be easier to relocate the new immigrants than it would be to relocate the original blipped population. But then that's just my take. That said, I wouldn't deport them. I'd try to create housing projects to move them into.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 27, 2021 18:17:08 GMT
This is assuming legal ownership has been established by the new occupants. If they're squatting, they have to go. Doesn't matter how long the house was in the family; if they were declared dead and the new owners have a legal claim, it's theirs now. If I remember correctly, it was mentioned in TFATWS that governments eagerly accepted immigrants in those 5 years because they were so desperate to have more helping hands. So I assume that immigrants were just granted a spare house instead of asking them to outright buy it. If my theory is correct, that means that the new occupants have legal ownership of the house because it was granted to them but they didn't actually pay for the house or work hard for it. So once the blipped come back, you now have a scenario of both sides legally owning the house, except only one party actually paid for the house. Personally, I'd prioritize the blipped (original owners) over the new immigrants even if only due to pure population numbers, as there would be far more of the blipped than there would be immigrants. So from a pure numbers perspective, it would be easier to relocate the new immigrants than it would be to relocate the original blipped population. But then that's just my take. None of it really makes any sense. It's not like the world needed rebuilding, they suddenly had plenty of openings for jobs and an overabundance of resources. The government isn't going to give them a free fully functioning house; it would be a buyer's market but you'd still have to pay for it, along with property taxes, utilities, etc. Taxing citizens is what governments do. To me it's unclear why you'd need a larger workforce when there was half as much demand for your product/service to begin with. The war took place in the Wakandan countryside, it wasn't some global conflict that left the world in ruins. As an idealist it only seems fair to lean toward the original owner, but the world doesn't work that way, and it shouldn't in this scenario. My earlier comparison to being stranded on an island applies, but here's another one. Let's say you wrongfully go to prison and after five years, they find new evidence exonerating you. While you were inside, your house was repossessed and sold to someone else. Shitty as your circumstances may be, the new occupants don't owe you a damn thing and neither does the bank. On the other hand, if your property goes derelict and there are people living there off the grid; by all means you should clear them out as soon as you can establish your own legal claim.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 27, 2021 18:23:17 GMT
If I remember correctly, it was mentioned in TFATWS that governments eagerly accepted immigrants in those 5 years because they were so desperate to have more helping hands. So I assume that immigrants were just granted a spare house instead of asking them to outright buy it. If my theory is correct, that means that the new occupants have legal ownership of the house because it was granted to them but they didn't actually pay for the house or work hard for it. So once the blipped come back, you now have a scenario of both sides legally owning the house, except only one party actually paid for the house. Personally, I'd prioritize the blipped (original owners) over the new immigrants even if only due to pure population numbers, as there would be far more of the blipped than there would be immigrants. So from a pure numbers perspective, it would be easier to relocate the new immigrants than it would be to relocate the original blipped population. But then that's just my take. None of it really makes any sense. It's not like the world needed rebuilding, they suddenly had plenty of openings for jobs and an overabundance of resources. The government isn't going to give them a free fully functioning house; it would be a buyer's market but you'd still have to pay for it, along with property taxes, utilities, etc. Taxing citizens is what governments do. To me it's unclear why you'd need a larger workforce when there was half as much demand for your product/service to begin with. The war took place in the Wakandan countryside, it wasn't some global conflict that left the world in ruins. As an idealist it only seems fair to lean toward the original owner, but the world doesn't work that way, and it shouldn't in this scenario. My earlier comparison to being stranded on an island applies, but here's another one. Let's say you wrongfully go to prison and after five years, they find new evidence exonerating you. While you were inside, your house was repossessed and sold to someone else. Shitty as your circumstances may be, the new occupants don't owe you a damn thing and neither does the bank. On the other hand, if your property goes derelict and there are people living there off the grid; by all means you should clear them out as soon as you can establish your own legal claim. Ok fair enough. I still disagree but I see your point. And to be honest, I'm not disagreeing because of any idealistic ideals nor am I basing it from any real-world examples. As I mentioned, I'm approaching it purely from a numbers game. It's just easier logistics imo to move the new immigrants to housing projects than it would be to move the blipped population.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 27, 2021 18:37:04 GMT
None of it really makes any sense. It's not like the world needed rebuilding, they suddenly had plenty of openings for jobs and an overabundance of resources. The government isn't going to give them a free fully functioning house; it would be a buyer's market but you'd still have to pay for it, along with property taxes, utilities, etc. Taxing citizens is what governments do. To me it's unclear why you'd need a larger workforce when there was half as much demand for your product/service to begin with. The war took place in the Wakandan countryside, it wasn't some global conflict that left the world in ruins. As an idealist it only seems fair to lean toward the original owner, but the world doesn't work that way, and it shouldn't in this scenario. My earlier comparison to being stranded on an island applies, but here's another one. Let's say you wrongfully go to prison and after five years, they find new evidence exonerating you. While you were inside, your house was repossessed and sold to someone else. Shitty as your circumstances may be, the new occupants don't owe you a damn thing and neither does the bank. On the other hand, if your property goes derelict and there are people living there off the grid; by all means you should clear them out as soon as you can establish your own legal claim. Ok fair enough. I still disagree but I see your point. And to be honest, I'm not disagreeing because of any idealistic ideals nor am I basing it from any real-world examples. As I mentioned, I'm approaching it purely from a numbers game. It's just easier logistics imo to move the new immigrants to housing projects than it would be to move the blipped population. It depends on how rooted the immigrants are in the community. If they're off the grid, then yeah it's easier to move them by force. If they've taken the place of the blipped in society in every official sense, it's actually harder. Whichever group you decide to move, my solution would be the same. Build cities from scratch to at once solve the housing crisis and create jobs on a tremendous scale. Thanks for coming up with this thread, it's a fun topic to explore. Not that I needed a reason, but it made me glad I'm not a politician.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 27, 2021 18:56:37 GMT
Ok fair enough. I still disagree but I see your point. And to be honest, I'm not disagreeing because of any idealistic ideals nor am I basing it from any real-world examples. As I mentioned, I'm approaching it purely from a numbers game. It's just easier logistics imo to move the new immigrants to housing projects than it would be to move the blipped population. It depends on how rooted the immigrants are in the community. If they're off the grid, then yeah it's easier to move them by force. If they've taken the place of the blipped in society in every official sense, it's actually harder. Whichever group you decide to move, my solution would be the same. Build cities from scratch to at once solve the housing crisis and create jobs on a tremendous scale. Thanks for coming up with this thread, it's a fun topic to explore. Not that I needed a reason, but it made me glad I'm not a politician. Yeah, I made the thread because of Sam's whole speech at the end. Because no matter how nice his speech sounded, it still basically boiled down to him saying "Do better" but not really giving any suggestions or solutions himself. And it's easy to criticize, much harder actually provide the solution. So it made me wonder: How indeed would we do it better?
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