|
|
Post by millar70 on Apr 27, 2021 20:59:19 GMT
So I've been on a major Orson Welles kick lately, I even started an appreciation thread for him a few weeks ago here.
I gotta admit though, there's one major film he's associated with that I have never seen, and that's The Third Man.
Well, that's gonna change tomorrow night as TCM is showing it, and I will be watching with bells on.
I've heard so many good things about this film, I feel like I'm about to see a modern blockbuster at my local theater or something like that.
On a scale of 1-10, how excited should I be? Give me your thoughts on this film, without giving too much away, of course.
|
|
|
|
Post by bravomailer on Apr 27, 2021 21:04:02 GMT
A great film that I enjoy much more than I do Citizen Kane or Touch of Evil. Powerful looks at war-ravaged, occupied Vienna; great performances by Welles, Cotten, and Valli; one of my favorite endings in film.
|
|
|
|
Post by london777 on Apr 27, 2021 21:38:03 GMT
I feel like I'm about to see a modern blockbuster at my local theater or something like that. I think you should raise your expectations a bit. No need to be that pessimistic. |
|
|
|
Post by millar70 on Apr 27, 2021 21:39:55 GMT
I feel like I'm about to see a modern blockbuster at my local theater or something like that. I think you should raise your expectations a bit. No need to be that pessimistic. 😂😂😂👍 Very good point. How bout this, I feel like I'm back in the 70's and am about to see a blockbuster. You're right, that makes more sense. 😉 |
|
|
|
Post by bravomailer on Apr 27, 2021 22:03:25 GMT
We almost moved to Vienna in the 60s, thought not for a reason related to the film.
My father used to play Anton Karas LPs!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 22:21:23 GMT
I love this movie. My favorite film of the 40s. High expectations can ruin a great movie. But if you like film noir you will love The Third Man. Pay attention to the setting and the cinematography. They’re a real highlight. The dialogue, especially from Welles, is pretty great too.
|
|
|
|
Post by OldAussie on Apr 27, 2021 23:01:13 GMT
Just checked....I've rated 6012 films....only eleven are 10/10......The Third Man is one of them.
On a personal note, I rode the Ferris Wheel, lunched at the Mozart Cafe and had coffee and chocolate cake at the Sacher Hotel.
Love Vienna!
|
|
|
|
Post by politicidal on Apr 27, 2021 23:11:14 GMT
It's an excellent movie. 8.5/10.
|
|
|
|
Post by wmcclain on Apr 28, 2021 0:07:27 GMT
The Third Man (1949), produced and directed by Carol Reed. As an off-kilter, darkly comic political thriller, there is really nothing to match this. Bold filmmaking with the tilted camera angles, untranslated dialogue and wild zither score, clueing us that we are in a strange place. Our hero, hapless Holly Martins as played by Joseph Cotton, is something of a dope. He thinks of himself as being in one of his pulp western novels. He blunders into a tangled web of crime and politics and expects to get his way with blustering demands. He meets his dead friend's girl at the funeral and figures he had better fall in love with her. When frustrated he mopes and drinks. He knows Harry has been an operator from an early age (would he be a "player" these days?) but can't conceive that his friend has become a criminal. It's funny except when it's not. Holly causes some deaths and the prospect of seeing Anna deported East is wrenching. I can't avoid a political interpretation: the common belief among educated Englishmen like Graham Greene is that Britain must play the wily Greek to America's strong but naive and somewhat dim Roman. The wise men of the Old World provide the geopolitical cunning, the New World supplies the money and muscle. Churchill: "You can rely on America to do the right thing after having exhausted all other possibilities." Which is what Holly finally does in the end: the right thing. Of course, there is another type of uncalculating loyalty besides the blundering of an innocent abroad: the woman who loves Harry won't betray him, no matter what he has done. I noticed many little things this time, for example: - Holly obliviously walking under the ladder.
- The porter pointing down for Heaven and up for Hell.
- The "baron" stepping into the gutter to avoid the policeman.
- Anna sleeping in Harry's pajamas -- they have his initials.
- Anna: "Comedy. I don't play tragedy."
Great cast. From this and The Paradine Case (1947), Alida Valli owns the dark mysterious woman roles. The way she is used as a bargaining chip in the game of crime and politics: it breaks our hearts. You can tell that Callaway, hardened as he is, doesn't like doing it. I also love tough but pleasant Sgt Paine, played by Bernard Lee, later "M" in the early James Bond films. Orson Welles is, of course, the quick, affable but amoral spider at the center of the web. He has only few minutes on screen but it is his best role. They had a terrible time getting him to show up for filming. You couldn't have this film without the ruin of post-war Vienna. Some of it is shot on sets, but they couldn't have been constructed without an intimate knowledge of the actual city. Rubble looks alarmingly lovely in black-and-white movies: the texture and shadows. The score is a single instrument: that crazed, jangling zither. It would be a different film without it. I'm astonished the studio allowed it. Finally: Do we presume that one of the black marketeers was murdered so that Harry could disappear? What was the "job" Harry offered Holly? (...thinking...) Did it involve becoming a corpse? That's a dark thought. Early Criterion Blu-ray, long out of print and expensive on the used market. Netflix still lists it, and after months of "Very Long Wait" in the #1 slot in my queue, I got it. I was expecting something scratched and about to be withdrawn, but it was a pristine copy. Studio Canal also has this on Blu-ray, but the image is said to be not as good. See the DVDBeaver comparison. Detail is mostly good; the black levels fluctuate in spots. Many extras, including two enthusiastic audio commentaries: (1) directors Steven Soderbergh and Tony Gilroy admiring the filmmaking craft, and (2) a more academic film scholar. He finds many quotes of other films and even self-references to the making of the film itself. Like a lot of lit-crit people he can find endless correspondences. Soderbergh's comment on the final scene: "Each time I see it I expect her to at least look at him when passing by. But no: she always just walks on." 
|
|
|
|
Post by london777 on Apr 28, 2021 1:21:40 GMT
The Third Man (1949), produced and directed by Carol Reed. Soderbergh's comment on the final scene: "Each time I see it I expect her to at least look at him when passing by. But no: she always just walks on."
Compare the end of another Welles movie, Touch of Evil (1958), where another dark, mysterious woman walks off alone into the distance following the fall of her lover?/patron? She does however briefly turn round.
Graham Greene was a communist (or at least a fellow-traveller) and I have always thought that Harry Lime's famous speech and his revealed actions were Greene's warning of the dangers of unbridled capitalism. Topical again when hundreds of thousands are dying while drug companies and governments are squabbling over contracts and patents,
|
|
|
|
Post by Prime etc. on Apr 29, 2021 17:51:22 GMT
It spawned a radio show, the Lives of Harry Lime.
What an achievement for a character who poisoned babies (although they make him more of a good guy in the radio show). I hear the infant mortality rate in that region was ghastly after the war. It sure sounds like there was some viciousness and vindictiveness towards children. There was a regulation Patton mentioned in his diaries, that US soldiers were severely punished if they were caught giving food to German children.
|
|
|
|
Post by bravomailer on Apr 29, 2021 18:00:54 GMT
There was also a British TV show. How Mr Lime escaped the sewer, I'll never know.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 18:02:49 GMT
Come on, OP, we need your review! millar70 |
|
|
|
Post by jervistetch on Apr 29, 2021 20:02:20 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by millar70 on Apr 29, 2021 20:20:21 GMT
Come on, OP, we need your review! millar70Well, what can I say? I was pretty blown away by the whole thing, much funnier than I thought it would be, and much sadder as well. First, the look of the film was pretty stunning, obviously. To see the rubble of a recently ended war used as set pieces was eye-opening, even taking advantage of a blown away car as a hiding spot for Holly, it brought home what these countries went through in WWII. Even covered in rubble, in black and white, and even at odd camera angles, Vienna was stunning. Every set, even Anna's apartment in a shelled building looks great on the screen. The look of this film will be etched on my mind forever, though I must say it sure seems like Carol Reed was most definitely influenced by the earlier films of Orson Welles. There is, no doubt, a Welles "feel" to the look of this movie. The story was much more deep than I thought it would have been. I had been thinking this was kind of a spy movie, so was very surprised to see exactly what kind of evil Harry Lyme was actually up to, a bit of a disappointment as I always want to somehow "root" for Orson Welles in his roles. Harry was much more of a "bad guy" than I was expecting, though Welles portrayed him as a man you would love to get to know. Obviously, Joseph Cotton was his usual steady presence and Valli was a treat to watch, both in her looks and her acting. All of the other actors did fine work, this is a film that doesn't get dragged down by any of its actors. A great cast all around. As I said earlier, the film was funnier than I would have guessed. That little kid who exposes Holly was part Little Rascal, part Damien from The Omen. And the scene where Holly gets his cab ride was a laugh out loud moment. Even the animals in this movie kind of shine in their own way, the dog, the parrot, the cat. And btw, Harry can't be all that bad if a cat likes him that much, right? All in all, a very rewarding experience finally seeing this great film. I taped it, and will watch a few more times to really let it all seep in. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 20:24:16 GMT
One of my favorite moments in the history of cinema.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 20:27:38 GMT
Come on, OP, we need your review! millar70 Well, what can I say? I was pretty blown away by the whole thing, much funnier than I thought it would be, and much sadder as well. First, the look of the film was pretty stunning, obviously. To see the rubble of a recently ended war used as set pieces was eye-opening, even taking advantage of a blown away car as a hiding spot for Holly, it brought home what these countries went through in WWII. Even covered in rubble, in black and white, and even at odd camera angles, Vienna was stunning. Every set, even Anna's apartment in a shelled building looks great on the screen. The look of this film will be etched on my mind forever, though I must say it sure seems like Carol Reed was most definitely influenced by the earlier films of Orson Welles. There is, no doubt, a Welles "feel" to the look of this movie. The story was much more deep than I thought it would have been. I had been thinking this was kind of a spy movie, so was very surprised to see exactly what kind of evil Harry Lyme was actually up to, a bit of a disappointment as I always want to somehow "root" for Orson Welles in his roles. Harry was much more of a "bad guy" than I was expecting, though Welles portrayed him as a man you would love to get to know. Obviously, Joseph Cotton was his usual steady presence and Valli was a treat to watch, both in her looks and her acting. All of the other actors did fine work, this is a film that doesn't get dragged down by any of its actors. A great cast all around. As I said earlier, the film was funnier than I would have guessed. That little kid who exposes Holly was part Little Rascal, part Damien from The Omen. And the scene where Holly gets his cab ride was a laugh out loud moment. Even the animals in this movie kind of shine in their own way, the dog, the parrot, the cat. And btw, Harry can't be all that bad if a cat likes him that much, right? All in all, a very rewarding experience finally seeing this great film. I taped it, and will watch a few more times to really let it all seep in. I’m glad you enjoyed it! It’s a great film to rewatch again and again. Harry Lime is such a memorable character with such a charismatic performance by Welles. I notice you didn’t mention the zither score though. People usually comment on that first.
|
|
|
|
Post by millar70 on Apr 29, 2021 20:37:00 GMT
Well, what can I say? I was pretty blown away by the whole thing, much funnier than I thought it would be, and much sadder as well. First, the look of the film was pretty stunning, obviously. To see the rubble of a recently ended war used as set pieces was eye-opening, even taking advantage of a blown away car as a hiding spot for Holly, it brought home what these countries went through in WWII. Even covered in rubble, in black and white, and even at odd camera angles, Vienna was stunning. Every set, even Anna's apartment in a shelled building looks great on the screen. The look of this film will be etched on my mind forever, though I must say it sure seems like Carol Reed was most definitely influenced by the earlier films of Orson Welles. There is, no doubt, a Welles "feel" to the look of this movie. The story was much more deep than I thought it would have been. I had been thinking this was kind of a spy movie, so was very surprised to see exactly what kind of evil Harry Lyme was actually up to, a bit of a disappointment as I always want to somehow "root" for Orson Welles in his roles. Harry was much more of a "bad guy" than I was expecting, though Welles portrayed him as a man you would love to get to know. Obviously, Joseph Cotton was his usual steady presence and Valli was a treat to watch, both in her looks and her acting. All of the other actors did fine work, this is a film that doesn't get dragged down by any of its actors. A great cast all around. As I said earlier, the film was funnier than I would have guessed. That little kid who exposes Holly was part Little Rascal, part Damien from The Omen. And the scene where Holly gets his cab ride was a laugh out loud moment. Even the animals in this movie kind of shine in their own way, the dog, the parrot, the cat. And btw, Harry can't be all that bad if a cat likes him that much, right? All in all, a very rewarding experience finally seeing this great film. I taped it, and will watch a few more times to really let it all seep in. I’m glad you enjoyed it! It’s a great film to rewatch again and again. Harry Lime is such a memorable character with such a charismatic performance by Welles. I notice you didn’t mention the zither score though. People usually comment on that first. Oh, of course the music is fantastic. The zither is pretty much another character in the film, isn't it? I also forgot to mention the ending. God, I wanted her to do something to acknowledge Holly's presence on the road, but she just walked right past him without even a glance. Heartbreaking, especially to those of us, and I'm sure there's many, who have kind of been in a similar situation and just wanted the girl to at least give you a glance, only to be disappointed. Hey, he did kill Harry, her one true love. And I love the little moment in the ferris wheel scene where Harry draws the heart and Anna's name in the condensation on the window. A beautiful moment. Ahhh, true love. |
|
|
|
Post by timshelboy on Apr 29, 2021 23:41:43 GMT
Excellent movie .....it,s a minority view but I’d rate THE MAN BETWEEN from1953, directed by Carol Reed and starring James Mason,Claire Bloom and Hildegard Neff even higher. It does for Berlin what THE THIRD MAN does for VIenna, there is postwar rubble, shadows and arty Noir compositions to savour and for me the ending is even sadder. Not many laughs though.
|
|
|
|
Post by london777 on Apr 30, 2021 0:06:51 GMT
Come on, OP, we need your review! millar70 I must say it sure seems like Carol Reed was most definitely influenced by the earlier films of Orson Welles. There is, no doubt, a Welles "feel" to the look of this movie. I would not be in a rush to be sure. These years were the high-point of Film Noir and the aspects you attribute to Welles could have been learned from dozens of other great directors, some of whom, like Lang and Renoir, were making masterpieces before Welles' first important movies. Reed was the son of Beerbohm Tree, the English-speaking world's most esteemed theatrical impresario, and had an early apprenticeship under Basil Dean, who, while no great shakes as a director himself, fostered the careers of major directors David Lean and Basil Dearden in addition to that of Reed. One influence would have been Hitchcock, and Reed had already made a very competent pastiche of a Hitchcock movie in Night Train to Munich (1940). Some of the quirky humour in The Third Man seems very Hitchcockean. Michael Powell, as good a director as any of them, greatly admired Reed, saying ' he could put together a movie like a Swiss watch'. This suggests that Reed, raised and educated within the elite, saw directing as assembling and leading a team of specialists, like a cricket captain, the template for his class, rather than an opportunity to trumpet his genius as it was for Welles. Once The Third Man appeared to great acclaim both sides of the Pond, Reed was briefly feted as the world's leading director, though I assume 'world' really meant 'Anglophone world' (as it still does to many posters here). This absurd hype may have done him no favours, as his career was patchy thereafter and he never made anything remotely as good again. The extent of Welles' interference in The Third Man has been much discussed, but as the guy was the Prince of Bullshitters, it is unlikely to be resolved at this distance of time. He was rumoured to have directed some scenes, especially those in the sewers, but it seems that all these reels were not used and were discreetly disposed of. Given Reed's background in theatrical aristocracy (see above), he would not have been at all overawed by Welles, as others were, and my guess is that he just humoured the old blusterer to get the film completed. In one radio interview Welles explicity denied having directed any of the finished picture, but then you can find another quote to counter any of his quotes, so who knows? Welles certainly composed the Ferris Wheel speech and some of the other dialogue, with Graham Greene's blessing. I would be interested in the views of others here, far more knowledgable about Welles than myself. Good review, millar70. Thanks for coming back to us. Incidentally, did you watch the English version, with voice-over by Carol Reed, or the US version with voice-over by Joseph Cotton and 11 minutes cut?
|
|
