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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2021 10:05:19 GMT
In the case of the pitchers, it will depend on how quickly the voters adopt the "new normal". When shit like "I aint voting Verlander, he never came close to 300 wins" goes away. I hesitate to say no one will ever win 300 again. A healthy junkballer with a sympathetic staff on a consistently winning team might. But it will be rarer than hen's teeth I think going forward the voting criteria will change. We've already seen it. We've seen it with closers. Rockies and even the DH. Players shouldn't be penalized for playing in a certain city or playing a certain position. Since the DH is a position it should be voted on according. I'm one who also thinks that relief pitchers should be in the HOF. It's a position in baseball and over the years we've seen some great relief pitchers that may not have the credentials of a closer but that doesn't make them any less worthy.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on May 9, 2021 10:25:03 GMT
In the case of the pitchers, it will depend on how quickly the voters adopt the "new normal". When shit like "I aint voting Verlander, he never came close to 300 wins" goes away. I hesitate to say no one will ever win 300 again. A healthy junkballer with a sympathetic staff on a consistently winning team might. But it will be rarer than hen's teeth I think going forward the voting criteria will change. We've already seen it. We've seen it with closers. Rockies and even the DH. Players shouldn't be penalized for playing in a certain city or playing a certain position. Since the DH is a position it should be voted on according. I'm one who also thinks that relief pitchers should be in the HOF. It's a position in baseball and over the years we've seen some great relief pitchers that may not have the credentials of a closer but that doesn't make them any less worthy. Rockies is a big one. You'll always see someone rag on Todd Helton because he played in the thin air. How many homers was gifted to Babe Ruth by the shallow RF in Yankee Stadium? Helton's place in the all time homer list doesn't help his HOF cause. He's tied for 81st with Ralph Kiner, who many say is undeserving (ijits in my book. So he had a short career. No one wants to chuck Dizzy Dean out.) Just ahead of him on the list, Gil Hodges, Rocky Colavito, Carlton Fisk, Norm Cash, and Jeff Kent. Only Fisk in Cooperstown. Right below him, Lance Berkman, Joe D, Johnny Mize, and Gary Gaetti. Two HOFers, two who'll hae to buy a ticket. Both Mize and DiMaggio lost many at bats due to WWII.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2021 10:46:51 GMT
Rockies is a big one. You'll always see someone rag on Todd Helton because he played in the thin air. How many homers was gifted to Babe Ruth by the shallow RF in Yankee Stadium? Helton's place in the all time homer list doesn't help his HOF cause. He's tied for 81st with Ralph Kiner, who many say is undeserving (ijits in my book. So he had a short career. No one wants to chuck Dizzy Dean out.) Just ahead of him on the list, Gil Hodges, Rocky Colavito, Carlton Fisk, Norm Cash, and Jeff Kent. Only Fisk in Cooperstown. Right below him, Lance Berkman, Joe D, Johnny Mize, and Gary Gaetti. Two HOFers, two who'll hae to buy a ticket. Both Mize and DiMaggio lost many at bats due to WWII.
Helton is a tough one IMO. There's also a school out there who'll say that the thin air shortens your career. Even though Walker made it. Which he should have but it took him awhile. You make some outstanding points. (as usual). I just think that players should be rated on their stats. No matter where or when they played or what their position was. In baseball we all love stats but it's extremely hard to compare players now to 50 years ago. It's a different game. Players should be weighted on the time that they played.
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Post by NJtoTX on May 9, 2021 11:36:34 GMT
Who are guys who might have gotten there without being caught and served long suspensions when they might have put up more numbers? Cano? Cruz wouldn't.
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ThreeSticks
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Post by ThreeSticks on May 9, 2021 17:45:42 GMT
If they retired today:
Locks- Albert Pujols Mike Trout Miguel Cabrera Clayton Kershaw Justin Verlander
Should get in eventually: Robinson Cano
Will get in eventually but shouldn't: Buster Posey Yadier Molina
Depends on acceptance of new normal for pitchers: Zack Grienke Max Scherzer
Relievers Edition: Craig Kimbrel Kenley Jansen Aroldis Chapman
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