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Post by politicidal on Sept 21, 2021 14:34:54 GMT
It's already been picked up by outlets like TMZ. TEXT: Marvel’s Shang-Chi star Simu Liu has become one of the latest examples of why you should periodically delete old social media posts. Last week, fans began sharing screenshots of Reddit comments the actor allegedly made years before he was well known. To say they were “not great” would be an understatement. Though the “NippedInTheBud” profile—which has been credibly linked to Liu via a searchable GitHub tool that archives Reddit accounts—has since been deleted, multiple screengrabs of posts tied to the account have been making the rounds online and causing a certain degree of backlash because of their content and where they were initially written. In addition to making casually sexist remarks about women being inferior athletes to men, and inelegantly expressing disdain for extremism in a way that carried Islamophobic overtones, NippedInTheBud (and by extension, Liu) came under fire for participating in r/AZNidentity, a subreddit that’s known as a hub for an Asian-identified subset of the Men’s Rights Activist community. Though r/AZNidentity purports to be a space that’s “against all forms of anti-Asianism (anti-Asian racism)” the subreddit has a well-documented history of being a meeting place for aggrieved men who launch coordinated attacks typically against women—some of whom are Asian themselves—that they’ve identified as being “race traitors” in some way or another. While none of the screenshots making the rounds have directly linked NippedInTheBud to any of the group’s more vicious behavior, the account being at all present associated with r/AZNidentity raised eyebrows because of what kind of place it is. Somewhat more concerning than the digital company NippedInTheBud kept, though, were ideas expressed in a post likening pedophiles to gay people. In a comment posted back in 2015 (when Liu would have been 26), NippedInTheBud described how they’d done “a significant amount of research” for a show in which they portrayed a pedophile, and how the experience made them “much more sympathetic to anyone who is born with those urges.” The deleted post read: “From a biological standpoint, it’s no different than being gay - a small mutation in the genome that defines our sexual preferences. Depending on what area of the world you were born and what time, it also may have been a perfectly acceptable thing to act on those urges.” The post also made clear that the person writing it felt that people preying upon children was wrong, as is the history of queer people’s sexualities being pathologized by both the medical and criminal justice systems. Though NippedInTheBud did not mention specifically which role they were describing, because the account seems to be Liu, it stands to reason that it was talking about the actor’s stint on Blood and Water, a trilingual Canadian crime drama that began running in 2015. In the series, Liu portrayed Paul Xie, the eldest son of a powerful real estate magnate, who becomes one of the suspects after his younger brother Charlie (Osric Chau) dies under mysterious circumstances. Over the course of the first season, you learn how, as children, Paul molested Charlie, and the abuse eventually drove Charlie to substance abuse in the following years. When Charlie ultimately threatens to tell everyone what Paul did to him, the elder brother kills his younger sibling in a panicked rage, and the bulk of Blood and Water focuses on detective Josephine Bradley (Steph Song) piecing the mystery together. What’s particularly galling about NippedInTheBud’s old comments when you consider them in the context of the story Blood and Water was actually telling is that Paul Xie was not just a man suffering from an unfortunate affliction he had no control over. Throughout the series’ first season, Paul’s shown to be a manipulative liar who tries to use the power that comes from being an editor at a local newspaper to get the authorities off his back. When Paul’s father Li-Rong (Oscar Hsu) confronts him, he tells his son that he’s always had some inkling of what was going on, and struggled with the shame of it. The “help” Paul claims he’s received to deal with his compulsions is contrasted by his willingness to deceive others within his family about the circumstances of his brother’s death, and it all creates a picture of a tormented, but ultimately monstrous man who only feels remorse once his secret is exposed. To its credit, Blood and Water thoughtfully explores ideas about how familial shame and secrecy often end up becoming sources of trauma in and of themselves. But it was, and continues to be beyond irresponsible and deeply homophobic to liken queerness to pedophilia as NippedInTheBud did after the mountains of research they purportedly put into preparing for the role. Unsurprisingly, Liu’s made no direct statement in response to some of the questions about the NippedInTheBudAccount. However, as the screenshots circulated and gained more attention, the actor added a tweet to a thread from 2019 reiterating that he’s only interested in advocating for “positive cultural pride.” io9 reached out to Disney as well as Liu’s management and representatives multiple times and did not hear back by time of publishing. This entire situation certainly seems to be the sort of thing that Liu’s team would want to address concretely with a proper statement, but as it stands now, this is yet another example of why, in the end, it’s probably better to just save these sorts of posts for the drafts. Or better yet, just log off. Marvel’s Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings is now in theaters. Liu is expected to reprise the role in other MCU productions in the future. gizmodo.com/simu-lius-alleged-old-reddit-account-is-why-you-should-1847708695
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 21, 2021 15:13:55 GMT
"Guy said some dumb shit ten years ago. Fire him!!" This shit needs to stop. People are so desperate to uncover terrible things he said that some of these examples are ridiculous. He expressed sympathy for pedophiles and compared them to gays; That's a bad take to say the least. But saying men are better athletes than women is a problem? Women will agree men are better athletes, we're literally built for it. I'm so tired of this stuff.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 21, 2021 16:17:12 GMT
Somewhat more concerning than the digital company NippedInTheBud kept, though, were ideas expressed in a post likening pedophiles to gay people. In a comment posted back in 2015 (when Liu would have been 26), NippedInTheBud described how they’d done “a significant amount of research” for a show in which they portrayed a pedophile, and how the experience made them “much more sympathetic to anyone who is born with those urges.” The deleted post read: “From a biological standpoint, it’s no different than being gay - a small mutation in the genome that defines our sexual preferences. Depending on what area of the world you were born and what time, it also may have been a perfectly acceptable thing to act on those urges.” The post also made clear that the person writing it felt that people preying upon children was wrong, as is the history of queer people’s sexualities being pathologized by both the medical and criminal justice systems. Just to play devil's advocate here, what makes his comment about pedophilia sound so reprehensible is because of our social norms. 300 years ago, a 25 year old man marrying a 13 year old girl would have been far more acceptable than a 25 year old man marrying another 25 year old man. I'm not trying to defend Simu's stance here nor am I agreeing with him, I'm just pointing out that the nuances of sexual attraction are far more complicated than we may think and we shouldn't be too quick to judge based on social norms because social norms change all the time. I mean, BDSM is slowly starting to be generally acceptable sexual behavior. That was something that was pretty taboo even just a few decades ago. As for the other things he said, well, men ARE better athletes than women in general. I know it's not quite a popular thing to say nowadays but it doesn't make it untrue. Anyway, people say dumbshit all the time. I disagree with at least half the things I hear people say. Actors are humans. They say dumbshit all the time. I disagree with stuff they say at least half the time (probably a lot more). But unless they actually do something that's illegal, there should really be no cause to cancel them.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 21, 2021 16:41:54 GMT
Somewhat more concerning than the digital company NippedInTheBud kept, though, were ideas expressed in a post likening pedophiles to gay people. In a comment posted back in 2015 (when Liu would have been 26), NippedInTheBud described how they’d done “a significant amount of research” for a show in which they portrayed a pedophile, and how the experience made them “much more sympathetic to anyone who is born with those urges.” The deleted post read: “From a biological standpoint, it’s no different than being gay - a small mutation in the genome that defines our sexual preferences. Depending on what area of the world you were born and what time, it also may have been a perfectly acceptable thing to act on those urges.” The post also made clear that the person writing it felt that people preying upon children was wrong, as is the history of queer people’s sexualities being pathologized by both the medical and criminal justice systems. Just to play devil's advocate here, what makes pedophilia so reprehensible in our society is because of our social norms. 300 years ago, a 25 year old man marrying a 13 year old girl would have been far more acceptable than a 25 year old man marrying another 25 year old man. I'm not trying to defend Simu's stance here nor am I agreeing with him, I'm just pointing out that the nuances of sexual attraction are far more complicated than we may think and we shouldn't be too quick to judge based on social norms because social norms change all the time. I mean, BDSM is slowly starting to be generally acceptable sexual behavior. That was something that was pretty taboo even just a few decades ago. As for the other things he said, well, men ARE better athletes than women in general. I know it's not quite a popular thing to say nowadays but it doesn't make it untrue. To be fair, those were usually arranged marriages and the women were young for two reasons: maximize the time she'd be fertile during the marriage, and to ensure she was 'pure.' Modern folks could still find either of those concepts disturbing, but it's a far cry from specifically desiring children. People could respect his take (yet still find it a bit odd) if he was only trying to understand a form of mental illness or something. To compare child predators to homosexuals is an incredible insult to an entire group of people, and a stigma they've been battling forever. Having said all that, can't he just put out a statement saying he's learned a lot since then, he's undergone sensitivity training, etc.? Why is somebody's career always in jeopardy for things they said years ago? Having said that, I can't believe celebs don't have someone on payroll scrubbing their social on a regular basis. Family, friends, somebody to find this stuff and get rid of it before it becomes a problem? Or at least alerts you to it so you can get out in front of it? If I were famous, I would immediately put out a statement apologizing for anything stupid I've ever said. "Sometimes we don't realize the power of words. Well I do now. I'm an imperfect person battling an unnamed periodic mental illness." The narrative suddenly shifts to how brave you are to admit your mental illness, and everybody decides you aren't a monster for making a joke in 1987 about how women can't drive.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 21, 2021 18:24:49 GMT
I read about this a few days ago. I doubt he’s going to lose his job over this. Letitia Wright got in some trouble last year for posting some pretty whack conspiracy theories, but that controversy seemed to blow over.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 21, 2021 19:47:56 GMT
Just to play devil's advocate here, what makes pedophilia so reprehensible in our society is because of our social norms. 300 years ago, a 25 year old man marrying a 13 year old girl would have been far more acceptable than a 25 year old man marrying another 25 year old man. I'm not trying to defend Simu's stance here nor am I agreeing with him, I'm just pointing out that the nuances of sexual attraction are far more complicated than we may think and we shouldn't be too quick to judge based on social norms because social norms change all the time. I mean, BDSM is slowly starting to be generally acceptable sexual behavior. That was something that was pretty taboo even just a few decades ago. As for the other things he said, well, men ARE better athletes than women in general. I know it's not quite a popular thing to say nowadays but it doesn't make it untrue. To be fair, those were usually arranged marriages and the women were young for two reasons: maximize the time she'd be fertile during the marriage, and to ensure she was 'pure.' Modern folks could still find either of those concepts disturbing, but it's a far cry from specifically desiring children. People could respect his take (yet still find it a bit odd) if he was only trying to understand a form of mental illness or something. To compare child predators to homosexuals is an incredible insult to an entire group of people, and a stigma they've been battling forever. Having said all that, can't he just put out a statement saying he's learned a lot since then, he's undergone sensitivity training, etc.? Why is somebody's career always in jeopardy for things they said years ago? Having said that, I can't believe celebs don't have someone on payroll scrubbing their social on a regular basis. Family, friends, somebody to find this stuff and get rid of it before it becomes a problem? Or at least alerts you to it so you can get out in front of it? If I were famous, I would immediately put out a statement apologizing for anything stupid I've ever said. "Sometimes we don't realize the power of words. Well I do now. I'm an imperfect person battling an unnamed periodic mental illness." The narrative suddenly shifts to how brave you are to admit your mental illness, and everybody decides you aren't a monster for making a joke in 1987 about how women can't drive. Some were arranged marriages, but most of the time 12-16 was just the standard marrying age of women in older times whether that was arranged or not. As soon as they had their period they were eligible to be married. Your teenage years are also the years where your hormones are excessively high, which means is when your sexual urges are pretty darn strong (which in olden times meant you needed to get married). It shouldn't really come as a surprise, I mean boys were sent to war as early as 15. Life was just harder then and people did things at a much younger ages. I'd also like to point out that having urges is not quite the same thing as acting out on those urges. I have an urge to kick a chihuahua everytime I see one, doesn't mean I do it. Some people out there might be sexually attracted to children... or to feet, or to animals, or to dead people, or to high heels, or to pain, or to a number of fetishes... but that doesn't mean they act on it. So I want to make it clear that I'm talking about the urge of a pedophile here, not the act of a pedophile actually having sexual relations with a minor. Once upon a time, sexual attraction to the same sex was considered every bit as abhorrent (if not more so) than attraction to a child. That is no longer the case and that's a good thing. But just because it's more accepted socially doesn't mean that the reason for that urge in attraction is any less an anomaly. I don't know that I actually agree with Simu in saying it's the same mutation that causes this attraction, but I will go as far to say that it's similarly a deviation to the norm. Not that I'm judging. I'm neither gay nor a pedophile but I have my own set of fetishes that don't make sense even to me. Thankfully none of them are illegal. I guess all I'm trying to say is, I don't want to be too quick to judge someone on something they say. Even if I don't agree with them, what they're saying might not be as bad as it's made to sound.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 21, 2021 20:05:36 GMT
To be fair, those were usually arranged marriages and the women were young for two reasons: maximize the time she'd be fertile during the marriage, and to ensure she was 'pure.' Modern folks could still find either of those concepts disturbing, but it's a far cry from specifically desiring children. People could respect his take (yet still find it a bit odd) if he was only trying to understand a form of mental illness or something. To compare child predators to homosexuals is an incredible insult to an entire group of people, and a stigma they've been battling forever. Having said all that, can't he just put out a statement saying he's learned a lot since then, he's undergone sensitivity training, etc.? Why is somebody's career always in jeopardy for things they said years ago? Having said that, I can't believe celebs don't have someone on payroll scrubbing their social on a regular basis. Family, friends, somebody to find this stuff and get rid of it before it becomes a problem? Or at least alerts you to it so you can get out in front of it? If I were famous, I would immediately put out a statement apologizing for anything stupid I've ever said. "Sometimes we don't realize the power of words. Well I do now. I'm an imperfect person battling an unnamed periodic mental illness." The narrative suddenly shifts to how brave you are to admit your mental illness, and everybody decides you aren't a monster for making a joke in 1987 about how women can't drive. Some were arranged marriages, but most of the time 12-16 was just the standard marrying age of women in older times whether that was arranged or not. As soon as they had their period they were eligible to be married. Your teenage years are also the years where your hormones are excessively high, which means is when your sexual urges are pretty darn strong (which in olden times meant you needed to get married). It shouldn't really come as a surprise, I mean boys were sent to war as early as 15. Life was just harder then and people did things at a much younger ages. I'd also like to point out that having urges is not quite the same thing as acting out on those urges. I have an urge to kick a chihuahua everytime I see one, doesn't mean I do it. Some people out there might be sexually attracted to children... or to feet, or to animals, or to dead people, or to high heels, or to pain, or to a number of fetishes... but that doesn't mean they act on it. So I want to make it clear that I'm talking about the urge of a pedophile here, not the act of a pedophile actually having sexual relations with a minor. Once upon a time, sexual attraction to the same sex was considered every bit as abhorrent (if not more so) than attraction to a child. That is no longer the case and that's a good thing. But just because it's more accepted socially doesn't mean that the reason for that urge in attraction is any less an anomaly. I don't know that I actually agree with Simu in saying it's the same mutation that causes this attraction, but I will go as far to say that it's similarly a deviation to the norm. Agreed, we're making the same point about early marriages in the past. The issue anyone is going to have is with pedophilia is it involves someone easily victimized. If you're attracted to stuffed animals, you're weird in my book, but who does it hurt? If you're attracted to children, as an adult you're a potential threat to those children. So yeah I'm not advocating thought police here. There are things we don't understand about the human mind that we clearly need to learn more about. But I wouldn't go on record comparing someone attracted to children (or dogs, or street signs or anything else unlikely to reciprocate adult feelings in a relationship) to someone attracted to an adult of the same sex.
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Post by Power Ranger on Sept 21, 2021 20:20:02 GMT
It’s not damning material, but it would work in Disney’s favour if Simu Liu gets fired from the Shang Chi role. Because if he is the reason China banned Shang Chi, Disney will be unwilling to use him in future films. They would love any excuse to let him go.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 21, 2021 20:30:52 GMT
Some were arranged marriages, but most of the time 12-16 was just the standard marrying age of women in older times whether that was arranged or not. As soon as they had their period they were eligible to be married. Your teenage years are also the years where your hormones are excessively high, which means is when your sexual urges are pretty darn strong (which in olden times meant you needed to get married). It shouldn't really come as a surprise, I mean boys were sent to war as early as 15. Life was just harder then and people did things at a much younger ages. I'd also like to point out that having urges is not quite the same thing as acting out on those urges. I have an urge to kick a chihuahua everytime I see one, doesn't mean I do it. Some people out there might be sexually attracted to children... or to feet, or to animals, or to dead people, or to high heels, or to pain, or to a number of fetishes... but that doesn't mean they act on it. So I want to make it clear that I'm talking about the urge of a pedophile here, not the act of a pedophile actually having sexual relations with a minor. Once upon a time, sexual attraction to the same sex was considered every bit as abhorrent (if not more so) than attraction to a child. That is no longer the case and that's a good thing. But just because it's more accepted socially doesn't mean that the reason for that urge in attraction is any less an anomaly. I don't know that I actually agree with Simu in saying it's the same mutation that causes this attraction, but I will go as far to say that it's similarly a deviation to the norm. Agreed, we're making the same point about early marriages in the past. The issue anyone is going to have is with pedophilia is it involves someone easily victimized. If you're attracted to stuffed animals, you're weird in my book, but who does it hurt? If you're attracted to children, as an adult you're a potential threat to those children. So yeah I'm not advocating thought police here. There are things we don't understand about the human mind that we clearly need to learn more about. But I wouldn't go on record comparing someone attracted to children (or dogs, or street signs or anything else unlikely to reciprocate adult feelings in a relationship) to someone attracted to an adult of the same sex. Agreed. I think the main misunderstanding here, which is also the reason Simu is going to get in trouble, is that people are mistaking urges/origin for the consequence. The consequences and reprecussions of having a sexual relationship with a child is far far more severe than having a sexual relationship with a stuffed-toy, but the reason for that urge might not be that dissimilar. And so I don't think Simu was ever trying to equate pedophiles to homosexuals, at least not as far as the actions and consequences go, it seems he was merely comparing a similarity of the urge to be a deviation from the norm. But yes, he could have said it better. And he could easily just apologize for being young and stupid. Pretty sure every person has said something stupid in their lifetime, even these people trying to get him cancelled.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 21, 2021 21:51:25 GMT
His point about pedos seemed to be that they don't choose who they're attracted to, the same way gay people don't. I can't tell if people are pissed because they think he's making the false equivalency homophobes usually make, or because they think he's excusing pedophilia, but I'm not sure either is entirely fair.
Then yeah, he's pretty much right about sports.
As for the Asian incel subreddit, I'm just amused a Marvel superhero would probably hate me for stealing his women.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 21, 2021 23:49:31 GMT
As for the Asian incel subreddit, I'm just amused a Marvel superhero would probably hate me for stealing his women. So I tried to look further into this issue, and some of the sources I read said that the subreddit used to be just a group for Asian men in general. It was only later that it became an Asian incel subreddit. Not sure how legitimate that is but the implication is that Simu Liu used to post there back when it was just meant for Asian men.
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Post by darkpast on Sept 22, 2021 6:14:44 GMT
i actually think James Gunn is the worst offender of stuff he did in past and was fired and later rehired, but it was not some hidden stuff and was on his very public profile, so should have been screened before hand, not after. But if Jimmy Kimmel can do blackface , i think Simu is ok with Disney
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