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Post by mstreepsucks on Nov 21, 2021 20:01:13 GMT
t the sequel trilogy, was if they went ahead and used the ideas that george lucas had for it?
The thing is, without using his ideas it would be impossible for them to plan out a trilogy because he's the only one that understands this material in the first place.
The reason why they couldn't have planned it out beforehand is they don't wanna use what he had in mind for it.
I'm saying if they went ahead and used his ideas for it, then it would become possible to plan it out. He might be a hack sure and writing stories and what not, the people that wrote episode 7 and 8 are more of a hack. Or at least they did more of a hack job than george would have done.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Nov 23, 2021 1:02:47 GMT
t the sequel trilogy, was if they went ahead and used the ideas that george lucas had for it?
The thing is, without using his ideas it would be impossible for them to plan out a trilogy because he's the only one that understands this material in the first place.
The reason why they couldn't have planned it out beforehand is they don't wanna use what he had in mind for it.
I'm saying if they went ahead and used his ideas for it, then it would become possible to plan it out. He might be a hack sure and writing stories and what not, the people that wrote episode 7 and 8 are more of a hack. Or at least they did more of a hack job than george would have done.
I think it was possible. They had at least 2 years to do it. But they spent the year and a half to two years time they had for pre-production bogged down in creative differences. Then after they got through the first movie (TFA) they spent the rest of the trilogy (and the anthology movies) being bogged down in… creative differences! So rejecting Lucas’ story treatments were only half the problem. When they throw away his foundation they “cut off one of their legs” to have an overall vision. When they spent almost all of their pre-production time (and excessive amounts of production and post production time) mired and bogged down in creative differences - they “cut off their other leg” for an overall vision. |
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Nov 23, 2021 16:37:04 GMT
t the sequel trilogy, was if they went ahead and used the ideas that george lucas had for it?
The thing is, without using his ideas it would be impossible for them to plan out a trilogy because he's the only one that understands this material in the first place.
The reason why they couldn't have planned it out beforehand is they don't wanna use what he had in mind for it.
I'm saying if they went ahead and used his ideas for it, then it would become possible to plan it out. He might be a hack sure and writing stories and what not, the people that wrote episode 7 and 8 are more of a hack. Or at least they did more of a hack job than george would have done.
They just needed better creative people that understood the franchise and held it in high esteem.
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Post by Power Ranger on Nov 23, 2021 16:46:57 GMT
No.
There is no limit to the number of coherent trilogy stories that could have been used. You don’t need Lucas’ story. I know he is the creator but he isn’t a great writer.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Nov 23, 2021 22:02:33 GMT
No. There is no limit to the number of coherent trilogy stories that could have been used. You don’t need Lucas’ story. I know he is the creator but he isn’t a great writer. But i'm saying, they wanted to have to take place in a certain time period though. So they could bring back old characters i guess. So i'm saying if it's gonna take place there and then, after episode vi then it would be impossible to plan it out.
Because at least george lucas' ideas for it took place in a different setting and in a different time. Or at least one of those two things. Therefore allowing it to possibly be planned out. If they used george ideas, it would probably suck, but at least it would be planned out.
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DarkManX
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Post by DarkManX on Nov 23, 2021 23:07:38 GMT
If I recall his ideas were weird and probably wouldn't have worked for the screen. As has been said they needed good writers to sit down and pound things out. Instead, they thought they could throw whatever crap they wanted at the screen and everyone would just accept it.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Nov 24, 2021 11:33:24 GMT
They could have used George's "plan" (although not sure exactly how fleshed out that really was - if the prequels are anything to go by probably not very). Or they could have hired someone else to detail out a three film trilogy arc in advance.
However, who knows - Like it or not, social media / SJWs / whatever you want to call it seem to have a huge input into shaping media now. And Disney are a massive money making machine who cannot ignore that. So whether any trilogy - pre planned or not - could escape it's influence is hard to say.
And the reason I say that is I think the DT was doomed to a large degree by the nonsense overbearing "Who are Rey's parents?" mystery. By not resolving that in TFA, it opened itself up to that social media pressure.
I read so much rubbish at the time along the lines of "Why does she have to be a Skywalker? Surely in this day and age anyone can use the force". Even Daisy Ridley started buying into that (despite previously claiming she knew who Rey's parents were!). And so Rian Johnson comes along and rewrites her to be a "nobody" simply to receive seal clapping from all inclusive, your background doesn't matter, anyone can be anything social media virtue signallers.
Problem is though that Star Wars was always an Arthurian tale. It's hereditary in nature. Luke was predestined to be special. Seeing him achieve that is what makes it great.
However Rey the character was literally shaped by external forces in TLJ. By saying anyone can be special, you're also ironically saying no one is special and thus Rey was retconned with the daftness seen in ROS and the Harry Potter broomstick boy was nowhere to be seen.
So planning out a trilogy is only part of the equation, not sure if anyone's storylines though would have evaded those external pressures (certainly not when under Disney control).
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Nov 24, 2021 17:23:43 GMT
A year and a half time frame before you even start production is enough time to come up with some kind of overall plan. No matter what the setting is you’ve got to work with.
They just didn’t do because they were conflicted about who should lead the writing (Arndt, Lucas, Kasdan, or Abrams). With only several months left before production it was settled on Abrams with assistance from Kasdan.
They were conflicted about Rey’s screen time and character prominence versus Luke’s. Hence the constant rewrites of Luke’s character throughout the entire trilogy!
That was arguably the biggest one of a number of creative differences that lead to multiple firings of writers and directors.
And they (initially) decided to have all 3 trilogy movies written and directed by 3 different people.
In short, they went about the process of an overall vision like a bunch of amateurs and idiots!
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Dec 3, 2021 20:13:34 GMT
Considering he made up the original and prequel trilogy as he went along, probably not. And that's not even really a criticism of the man. It's perfectly acceptable for creatives to allow a story to grow organically vs setting an end point and forcing it there by any means necessarily (see Game of Thrones season 8). The unplanned criticism is just a gotcha for people who already dislike these movies, unless they genuinely don't understand filmmaking.
And for the record, since George's portrayal of Luke was more or less the same as what we got, complete with playing second fiddle to a girl, people were not gonna like his version either.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Dec 3, 2021 21:22:19 GMT
No one strictly adheres to a framework in writing a screenplay or even a planned franchise. But Lucas did have a framework. I think the inference is would it have helped the entire story of the trilogy be much more harmonious. I think that’s a possibility since the other two SW trilogies clearly are.
I can’t say that I agree that what Lucas wrote Luke to be is “more or less what we got”. Luke taking back seat to Rey was a given. Sure some fans would’ve chafed at that regardless. But the broader complaint that covered a bigger demographic of dissenting fans was this version of Luke that was completely ineffectual and devoid of any of his base personality and nature. Mark Hamill himself acknowledged this when he said he was on board with what George wrote of his character and what Collin wrote of his character but he completely disagreed with what Rian wrote the character to be.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on Dec 4, 2021 18:20:36 GMT
No one strictly adheres to a framework in writing a screenplay or even a planned franchise. But Lucas did have a framework. I think the inference is would it have helped the entire story of the trilogy be much more harmonious. I think that’s a possibility since the other two SW trilogies clearly are. I can’t say that I agree that what Lucas wrote Luke to be is “more or less what we got”. Luke taking back seat to Rey was a given. Sure some fans would’ve chafed at that regardless. But the broader complaint that covered a bigger demographic of dissenting fans was this version of Luke that was completely ineffectual and devoid of any of his base personality and nature. Mark Hamill himself acknowledged this when he said he was on board with what George wrote of his character and what Collin wrote of his character but he completely disagreed with what Rian wrote the character to be. Exactly! Also Mark Hamill praised The Mandalorian for giving him a gift he never knew he wanted until it happened - Luke being Luke. You know Johnson so misunderstood Luke Skywalker (more like didn't care to know but I'm feeling generous) when even a CGI version of the character shows more heart in a few minutes than in his entire movie.
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Post by Winter_King on Dec 6, 2021 11:31:41 GMT
No.
They didn't need to use Lucas plans. They just needed to create the outline of the trilogy and the characters instead of having each director taking the story in the direction they wished.
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