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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 25, 2017 12:46:47 GMT
So let us say that you own an automaton. The automaton starts doing things you don't want it to do, because someone made a mistake programming it. You just leave it alone, with its faulty programming? Do you give the programmer a stern talking to but do nothing to fix the automaton? You can pretend that people are automata but they are not. Fixing a faulty programme is not the same thing as punishment if a person. You did not answer the question. Would you leave the automaton alone, in spite of faulty programming? If not, then why would you leave the child alone, in spite of faulty upbringing? Find me any example of someone who denies free will in order to evade responsibility for their actions. Certainly everyone in this thread who denies free will - including yours truly - do not deny personal responsibility, which is irrelevant to the discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 13:12:31 GMT
If there is no freewill, how will there be any personal responsibility ?
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 28, 2017 12:03:02 GMT
If there is no freewill, how will there be any personal responsibility ? Why wouldn't there be? You have responsibility irrespective of blame.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 12:06:32 GMT
If there is no freewill, how will there be any personal responsibility ? Why wouldn't there be? You have responsibility irrespective of blame. When you are not in control of your actions, you are not responsible. That is what fatalism/determinism tells us, and apparently most of the scientific community alludes to non-existence of freewill; that is the zeitgeist - something is that totally random yet within the confines of determinist fatalistic set of rules per se
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 28, 2017 12:41:50 GMT
When you are not in control of your actions, you are not responsible. You are in control of your actions. It's your will you have no control over. Determinism is not the same as fatalism. Wether we have free will or not does not affect whether we act as if we have free will or not. Anyway, I would like to pose the same question to you that afeena didn't answer: If you had an automaton, and faulty programming caused it to behave in a way you didn't want it to, would you simply leave the programming uncorrected because the automaton was not to blame? Or would you correct its programming - even though it was not to blame?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 12:51:56 GMT
When you are not in control of your actions, you are not responsible. You are in control of your actions. It's your will you have no control over. Determinism is not the same as fatalism. Wether we have free will or not does not affect whether we act as if we have free will or not. Free will is closely related to two important philosophical issues: freedom of action and moral responsibility The concepts of free will and free action do seem to conflate, and are thus corollaries of a notion that is a free agent as it were per se Determinism is related to fatalism, since determinists believe that all events, including human actions, are caused by something else. Fatalism may sometimes be confused with predestination, the doctrine that God chooses those who go to heaven before they are even born. It’s important to note that the Bible teaches predestination but not to the exclusion of free will; thus, the Bible does not teach fatalism. Blame game would come later; I would focus on the practicality of said such automata -- fix the problem presented
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 28, 2017 13:30:00 GMT
Free will is closely related to two important philosophical issues: freedom of action and moral responsibility[/quote] And I argue that free will is irrelevant to freedom of action and moral responsibility. Not having free will does not restrict your freedom of action in any way, nor does it give you carte blanche to do whatever you choose with the will you do have. The concepts of free will and free action do seem to conflate, and are thus corollaries of a notion that is a free agent as it were per se[/quote] Yes, and even without free will you do as you will. But you demonstrably never chose what to want to do. If only I could choose to want only healthy foods and excercise, then I'd choose that in a heartbeat. Spouses would always be faithful because they would never choose to want anybody else. But, alas, our desires are what they are, through no choice of our own. You are placing the cart before the horse. Determinism is not tied to fatalism, even if fatalism relies on determinism. They are two very different things. All herring are fish, but all fish are not herring. Fatalism is the view that we may as well resign ourselves to our fates, as we cannot change events anyway. But this does not automatically follow from determinism. I am a determinist (certainly with respects to free will), but I am not remotely a fatalist. Exactly. How do you fix faulty programming - or upbringing - in a child?
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