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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 20:34:09 GMT
What if i didn't?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 20:56:16 GMT
Nobody does. The idea itself is logically impossible, unless you are referring to a watered down definition of free will.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 21:08:18 GMT
Nobody does. The idea itself is logically impossible, unless you are referring to a watered down definition of free will. I am pretty certain that definition or idea of free will has been carefully crafted and updated over the course of millennia of it being thought upon and discussed by the academia. Hume says that it is the most contentious question of metaphysics.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 21:30:04 GMT
Nobody does. The idea itself is logically impossible, unless you are referring to a watered down definition of free will. I am pretty certain that definition or idea of free will has been carefully crafted and updated over the course of millennia of it being thought upon and discussed by the academia. Hume says that it is the most contentious question of metaphysics. I'm aware of Hipster Brand Free Will, which is free in name only, thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 21:55:04 GMT
I am pretty certain that definition or idea of free will has been carefully crafted and updated over the course of millennia of it being thought upon and discussed by the academia. Hume says that it is the most contentious question of metaphysics. I'm aware of Hipster Brand Free Will, which is free in name only, thank you. Tell me what you know of Free Will.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 21:58:11 GMT
I'm aware of Hipster Brand Free Will, which is free in name only, thank you. Tell me what you know of Free Will. I know that people do not choose their character traits, their genes, the experiences which affect them during their development. I know that people cannot choose which thoughts to think before they think them, and that the brain is a physical organ and our thoughts and actions are the products of physical processes that we did not consciously direct. I also know that there are some 'philosophers' who would define free will in such a way that it isn't free in any meaningful sense, because they do not trust the 'little people' with the knowledge that they do not have free will.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 22:25:46 GMT
Tell me what you know of Free Will. I know that people do not choose their character traits, their genes, the experiences which affect them during their development. I know that people cannot choose which thoughts to think before they think them, and that the brain is a physical organ and our thoughts and actions are the products of physical processes that we did not consciously direct. I also know that there are some 'philosophers' who would define free will in such a way that it isn't free in any meaningful sense, because they do not trust the 'little people' with the knowledge that they do not have free will. Instead of delving deep into the topic of free will, i will try saying something from my own thoughts. Character traits. How are they formed? They are formed by the same experiences that they go through when they are young. People usually think from their personal experiences. We are a product of our environment. Now that environment is quite random sometimes. Random events take place during our development that develops our character traits, our thought processes, our decision making, our judgments, and other things.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 23:04:51 GMT
What i am saying is that random events shape us, and perhaps they result in us having to make random choices. That is not causal determinism
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 23:10:53 GMT
Are you trying to get out of hell and into God's good graces??
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 22, 2017 8:39:05 GMT
What i am saying is that random events shape us, and perhaps they result in us having to make random choices. That is not causal determinism No one was arguing for causal determinism, just that there is no free will. Even if there are events which are truly random, this does not make our will any more free. We are no more in control of random events than non-random. In fact, we are less in control of random events. So random influences does not bolster the claim of free will, but adds a nail in its coffin instead.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 8:45:31 GMT
What i am saying is that random events shape us, and perhaps they result in us having to make random choices. That is not causal determinism No one was arguing for causal determinism, just that there is no free will. Even if there are events which are truly random, this does not make our will any more free. We are no more in control of random events than non-random. In fact, we are less in control of random events. So random influences does not bolster the claim of free will, but adds a nail in its coffin instead. Ah, the Randomness Objection
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 22, 2017 8:52:27 GMT
No one was arguing for causal determinism, just that there is no free will. Even if there are events which are truly random, this does not make our will any more free. We are no more in control of random events than non-random. In fact, we are less in control of random events. So random influences does not bolster the claim of free will, but adds a nail in its coffin instead. Ah, the Randomness ObjectionAh, the Randomnes Objection Objection.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 8:56:34 GMT
Lots of free will skeptics here. Why can't we be Compatibilists ? or followers of Soft Determinism ? So you people are arguing that there is no contra-causal free will? No libertarian free will? If we’re fully caused to do what we do, what happens to personal responsibility? Are we just puppets of fate? Do killers go free? You believe what? Let me get this straight, you think you can just choose to lose weight/stop smoking/get rich? You think we have that kind of power?
There’s nothing that skeptics enjoy more than a good debunking.
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 22, 2017 9:01:01 GMT
I tend to look at this matter from practical point of view. Ok, may be I don't have any free will but it makes no difference. In reality we make decisions on our own. We watch sports believing we will be entertained. We make financial investments believing we can change our fortune. And all other things......
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 22, 2017 9:09:08 GMT
Lots of free will skeptics here. Why can't we be Compatibilists ? or followers of Soft Determinism ? So you people are arguing that there is no contra-causal free will? No libertarian free will? If we’re fully caused to do what we do, what happens to personal responsibility? Are we just puppets of fate? Do killers go free? You believe what? Let me get this straight, you think you can just choose to lose weight/stop smoking/get rich? You think we have that kind of power? There’s nothing that skeptics enjoy more than a good debunking. What happens to personal responsibility? Nothing at all. And that's not even an argument - reminds me of the religious argument that heaven and hell must exist, because otherwise Hitler gets off scott free. The reason nothing happens to personal responsibility, however, is because responsibility is something you take - it is not necessarily tied to blame. If someone steps out of line, they need to be disciplined for it. Same as if my car isn't performing as it should, I get it fixed. It may not be the car's fault (in fact, it may be my own fault), but the car is still what needs fixing. Also, disciplining people who step out of line not only helps to re-shape them, but also helps shape the rest of the people in society, as it signals what happens if you do this or that. That's cause and effect, not free will. And indeed, the saying "spare the rod and spoil the child" is not a new one: When a child is misbehaving, people are quick to blame not the child but the parents. What happens when the misbehaved child becomes a misbehaved adult? Is it suddenly the adult's fault he turned out the way he did? Is his personality suddenly disjunct from his childhood, and his childhood influences are no longer to blame? We cannot punish his childhood influences, however, nor would that do any good. We can punish the adult himself, though, and that can have one or more of the following effects: 1. Reform the individual 2. Cause compensation to be paid to the victims 3. Act as a moral guide or deterrent to the rest of society 4. Remove the individual from society so he cannot do more harm
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 9:39:42 GMT
But when is there is no freewill, how can you discipline a child that is misbehaving because it is supposed to ? It has no freewill either and will keep on behaving the same way. The parents cannot be blamed because they don't have any freewill either.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 9:44:15 GMT
I don't know, but the Final Destination films throw up some good questions about this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 9:49:10 GMT
I don't know, but the Final Destination films throw up some good questions about this. If i don't have free will, am i not God's agent then? I am not a Fallen Angel. I am doing exactly what God made me to do.
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Post by awhina on Feb 22, 2017 9:50:45 GMT
This is an old standard on the IMDB 1.0 Board. No one wants to have free will because no one wants to take responsibility for their actions.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 22, 2017 10:37:57 GMT
But when is there is no freewill, how can you discipline a child that is misbehaving because it is supposed to ? It has no freewill either and will keep on behaving the same way. The parents cannot be blamed because they don't have any freewill either. Call it "programming", if you will. If you have a robot and you want it to perform certain tasks in a certain way, you program it. Same thing with children, only much more advanced.
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