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Post by Isapop on Feb 15, 2022 15:33:17 GMT
It seems the priest performing them for 20 years slipped up on a word (shoulda been "I baptize", not "We baptize") rendering the baptisms invalid. How (if you're Catholic) would you like to get this letter? "It is with sincere pastoral concern that I inform the faithful that baptisms performed by Reverend Andres Arango, a priest of the Diocese of Phoenix, are invalid...On behalf of our local Church, I too am sincerely sorry that this error has resulted in disruption to the sacramental lives of a number of the faithful."dphx.org/valid-baptisms/message-from-bishop-olmsted/Oh, and one more thing: "What this means for you is, if your baptism was invalid and you’ve received other sacraments, you may need to repeat some or all of those sacraments after you are validly baptized as well."dphx.org/valid-baptisms/#FAQIt just goes to show the importance of the right pronoun. |
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Post by mikef6 on Feb 15, 2022 17:23:31 GMT
When religion turns on small points of doctrine or procedure, it is all but dead. Evangelicals, who consider themselves the opposite of formal Catholicism, have the same problem. There are certain things that are considered sin and to be avoided but overlooked are many larger issues that should be addressed. The big problem here is that evangelicalism is so heavily tied to the current culture (as Catholicism is to ancient doctrine) that it is hard for them to look beyond it, e.g. corporate greed and environmental damage. Business success at any cost becomes almost part of their theology.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 15, 2022 19:14:23 GMT
When religion turns on small points of doctrine or procedure, it is all but dead. Evangelicals, who consider themselves the opposite of formal Catholicism, have the same problem. There are certain things that are considered sin and to be avoided but overlooked are many larger issues that should be addressed. The big problem here is that evangelicalism is so heavily tied to the current culture (as Catholicism is to ancient doctrine) that it is hard for them to look beyond it, e.g. corporate greed and environmental damage. Business success at any cost becomes almost part of their theology. I read the article about this online, and thought, well, that's just PERFECT, to quote Lt. Dan in 'Forrest Gump'. Instead of comfort and forgiveness, this has added to the everyday real woes of the people affected. Since I am an agnostic atheist, all I have to deal with is real problems like taxes and illness. I feel sorry for those that take this seriously.
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Post by Isapop on Feb 15, 2022 20:54:41 GMT
When religion turns on small points of doctrine or procedure, it is all but dead. Evangelicals, who consider themselves the opposite of formal Catholicism, have the same problem. There are certain things that are considered sin and to be avoided but overlooked are many larger issues that should be addressed. The big problem here is that evangelicalism is so heavily tied to the current culture (as Catholicism is to ancient doctrine) that it is hard for them to look beyond it, e.g. corporate greed and environmental damage. Business success at any cost becomes almost part of their theology. I read the article about this online, and thought, well, that's just PERFECT, to quote Lt. Dan in 'Forrest Gump'. Instead of comfort and forgiveness, this has added to the everyday real woes of the people affected. Since I am an agnostic atheist, all I have to deal with is real problems like taxes and illness. I feel sorry for those that take this seriously. Since it took twenty years for these defective, invalid baptisms to be discovered, I wonder how many other priests have been making comparable errors for who knows how many other baptisms that have not yet been discovered?
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Feb 15, 2022 22:27:58 GMT
Hope none of those "incorrectly baptised" people have died in that time. That would be a very awkward lawsuit: "your church condemned my loved one to an eternity in hell" - what's the compensation for that?
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Post by mystery on Feb 15, 2022 23:30:17 GMT
That is really depressing. They think God is like some slimy lawyer with a contract, and if all the fine print isn't precisely correct (through no fault of your own), then you're going to hell. Nice.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 16, 2022 14:42:27 GMT
With the baptism rite, the baptizer literally and magically removes original sin and any other sins from the human soul. The proper spell must be cast or it does not work. You are right, it is magic - smoke and mirrors magic. When I send in a check for something and it turns out the check was bad or the wrong amount, or some other kerfuffle, I get a notice in the mail to get it corrected as soon as possible. Too bad the angels in heaven are so behind in their postal work.
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Post by Penn Guinn on Feb 16, 2022 15:14:38 GMT
TWENTY Years and NO_ONE Noticed that this CRUCIAL wrong word was being used ?
Was he the ONLY person in the parish who was trained in the art of Baptism and knew the words to be used ?
Did no other priest ever ..in 20 Years ... attend the baptism of a relative's child and LISTEN to what was said ?
20 years of backtracking !
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Post by Isapop on Feb 16, 2022 15:38:57 GMT
TWENTY Years and NO_ONE Noticed that this CRUCIAL wrong word was being used ? Was he the ONLY person in the parish who was trained in the art of Baptism and knew the words to be used ? Did no other priest ever ..in 20 Years ... attend the baptism of a relative's child and LISTEN to what was said ? 20 years of backtracking ! Let's remember that it could've been worse. It's not like receiving a letter from your synagogue saying that due to a technical error your circumcision twenty years ago is invalid and please schedule another at your earliest convenience. So, there's that.
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Post by NJtoTX on Feb 18, 2022 15:39:27 GMT
So a completely-made-up spell regarding a completely-made-up ritual forced on children who have no awareness of or say on the matter conducted by a completely-made-up religion involving a completely-made-up supernatural trinity created by primitive Bronze-age men dead thousands of years is somehow invalidated by a 1-word change from "I" to "We." Duly noted.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 19, 2022 17:50:46 GMT
So a completely-made-up spell regarding a completely-made-up ritual forced on children who have no awareness of or say on the matter conducted by a completely-made-up religion involving a completely-made-up supernatural trinity created by primitive Bronze-age men dead thousands of years is somehow invalidated by a 1-word change from "I" to "We." Duly noted. I just had to highlight... it just had to be done! 1-word change from "I" to "We." which very well might have been an inaccurate translation In this age of scientific advances, why does this mindset not go away?
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Post by Stammerhead on Feb 20, 2022 11:53:43 GMT
I can see expectant lawyers gathering at The Pearly Gates.  |
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