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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 26, 2017 22:38:03 GMT
I don't see how.
Alexander Pierce, Red Skull, Winter Soldier, Zola, Zemo, Ego, Obediah, and the list goes on. If you're complaining about villains like that, it's a you problem, not a villain problem.
Zemo? He works fine in his role and all, but he is absolutely nothing like his comic counterpart, and is really just a plot device that never really acts as the film's central villain. I'm ok with those things personally but to call him a great villain seems like a real reach. Also the funny thing is that if a Fox or Sony movie treated an iconic villain like that fanboys would be crying foul. Whether he's like his comic counterpart is a completely different argument. He's still great in the role, has a great arc, and is well acted. Call him a plot device all you like, it's still wonderful scripting and quite different from the norm I might add.
Fox and Sony have far bigger problems.
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barkingbaphomet
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Post by barkingbaphomet on May 26, 2017 23:08:57 GMT
BVS Lex is a bad villain. I dare you to name an MCU villain that comes close. And that's what I mean by there's no bad villains. I have no idea what you're laughing at. mostly that you prefaced it with Let's be honest. as though anyone who doesn't adore all of the MCU antagonists must be coming into the discussion disingenuously. since you brought up Lex Luthor for some reason, i am curious: do you like anything the DCEU has to offer?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 23:53:13 GMT
Zemo? He works fine in his role and all, but he is absolutely nothing like his comic counterpart, and is really just a plot device that never really acts as the film's central villain. I'm ok with those things personally but to call him a great villain seems like a real reach. Also the funny thing is that if a Fox or Sony movie treated an iconic villain like that fanboys would be crying foul. Whether he's like his comic counterpart is a completely different argument. He's still great in the role, has a great arc, and is well acted. Call him a plot device all you like, it's still wonderful scripting and quite different from the norm I might add.
Fox and Sony have far bigger problems.
Oh I don't disagree with you on any of those points. I just would never point to him as an example of a great movie villain. It's not that I dislike him, he was just never intended to be anything more than he is. The argument that the MCU doesn't have a lot of great villains doesn't necessarily imply that they're bad, only that they're not stellar.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 23:56:09 GMT
Really? What about that blue dude in GotG? Or Malacath in Thor 2? Ronan and Malekith work just fine, and I like watching them both. Ronan is seeking vengeance for the deaths of his ancestors and Malekith has watched the long history of the universe take away what he considers it's rightful state. Both are well acted. Both look great. What's the problem?
Fair enough. Personally I found them to be more one dimensional and unmemorable than literally any movie villain I have ever seen.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 27, 2017 1:55:12 GMT
BVS Lex is a bad villain. I dare you to name an MCU villain that comes close. And that's what I mean by there's no bad villains. I have no idea what you're laughing at. mostly that you prefaced it with Let's be honest. as though anyone who doesn't adore all of the MCU antagonists must be coming into the discussion disingenuously. since you brought up Lex Luthor for some reason, i am curious: do you like anything the DCEU has to offer? Oh, well I only prefaced with lets be honest because the previous poster had trying to imply that we were all under some sort of obligation to dislike Marvel villains. I wouldn't use that phrase usually. I'm certainly not saying every Marvel villain is better than any other villain ever created, but their presentation so far has been well captured and entertaining.
There isn't much in the DCU that is likeable IMO. I found MOS a chore to get through and even embarrassing or inept at times. I haven't even bothered to watch BVS or SS. WW does look highly competent though and I will be seeing that with my wife, and I do hope it's good. I do not plan to see JL however.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 27, 2017 1:57:45 GMT
Oh I don't disagree with you on any of those points. I just would never point to him as an example of a great movie villain. It's not that I dislike him, he was just never intended to be anything more than he is. The argument that the MCU doesn't have a lot of great villains doesn't necessarily imply that they're bad, only that they're not stellar. Ok so we agree there's no problem then. Awesome. :-)
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 27, 2017 2:01:43 GMT
Ronan and Malekith work just fine, and I like watching them both. Ronan is seeking vengeance for the deaths of his ancestors and Malekith has watched the long history of the universe take away what he considers it's rightful state. Both are well acted. Both look great. What's the problem?
Fair enough. Personally I found them to be more one dimensional and unmemorable than literally any movie villain I have ever seen. Well one dimensional isn't necessarily a problem if it works for the point of the film, which in this case was to focus on the formation of the team. We don't have to spend time delving into everybody's backstory. We can see that Ronan has a deep seeded blood feud based on a long history of war, and learning more about that doesn't really add anything. The movie is focused on who the heroes are and Ronan is exactly what he needed to be.
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Post by sdrew13163 on May 27, 2017 6:49:21 GMT
mostly that you prefaced it with Let's be honest. as though anyone who doesn't adore all of the MCU antagonists must be coming into the discussion disingenuously. since you brought up Lex Luthor for some reason, i am curious: do you like anything the DCEU has to offer? Oh, well I only prefaced with lets be honest because the previous poster had trying to imply that we were all under some sort of obligation to dislike Marvel villains. I wouldn't use that phrase usually. I'm certainly not saying every Marvel villain is better than any other villain ever created, but their presentation so far has been well captured and entertaining.
There isn't much in the DCU that is likeable IMO. I found MOS a chore to get through and even embarrassing or inept at times. I haven't even bothered to watch BVS or SS. WW does look highly competent though and I will be seeing that with my wife, and I do hope it's good. I do not plan to see JL however.
I never said anyone had any obligation to hate MCU villains. I don't even hate MCU villains. I just don't see how you can consider them good or even great. I just don't understand why I get attacked for making a simple critique of the MCU. Say what you will about the DCEU right now, but at least I can critique the smallest things about those movies without being told to "get the stick out of your ass" or to "stop bitching" by those fans.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 27, 2017 15:03:24 GMT
I never said anyone had any obligation to hate MCU villains. I don't even hate MCU villains. I just don't see how you can consider them good or even great. I just don't understand why I get attacked for making a simple critique of the MCU. Say what you will about the DCEU right now, but at least I can critique the smallest things about those movies without being told to "get the stick out of your ass" or to "stop bitching" by those fans. I consider them good and many of them great because they're well acted, look great, and serve a solid purpose within the film. There is nothing that stands out as bad about them. If you would like it if the story focused more on them fine, but that hardly makes them bad. As far as I can tell it is bitching/ nitpicking if you will, to look at an achievement like the MCU and find something to complain about.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 27, 2017 15:09:45 GMT
They threw Shocker in there? That's pretty cool.
Uh, I mean, uh... THE MCU IS BAD AND DCEU IS BETTER AND -- meh, it's early. I'm tired.
It's cool they put Shocker in, however briefly.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 27, 2017 15:10:57 GMT
I never said anyone had any obligation to hate MCU villains. I don't even hate MCU villains. I just don't see how you can consider them good or even great. I just don't understand why I get attacked for making a simple critique of the MCU. Say what you will about the DCEU right now, but at least I can critique the smallest things about those movies without being told to "get the stick out of your ass" or to "stop bitching" by those fans. I consider them good and many of them great because they're well acted, look great, and serve a solid purpose within the film. There is nothing that stands out as bad about them. If you would like it if the story focused more on them fine, but that hardly makes them bad. As far as I can tell it is bitching/ nitpicking if you will, to look at an achievement like the MCU and find something to complain about. Enh. It's not really a nitpick: they've essentially made the same movie twenty times in a row and I got bored six movies in. So...
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Post by sdrew13163 on May 27, 2017 18:30:37 GMT
I never said anyone had any obligation to hate MCU villains. I don't even hate MCU villains. I just don't see how you can consider them good or even great. I just don't understand why I get attacked for making a simple critique of the MCU. Say what you will about the DCEU right now, but at least I can critique the smallest things about those movies without being told to "get the stick out of your ass" or to "stop bitching" by those fans. I consider them good and many of them great because they're well acted, look great, and serve a solid purpose within the film. There is nothing that stands out as bad about them. If you would like it if the story focused more on them fine, but that hardly makes them bad. As far as I can tell it is bitching/ nitpicking if you will, to look at an achievement like the MCU and find something to complain about. I'm not complaining, I'm pointing out what they could do better. I could be fine with Marvel if they never changed their villains, but I'm saying that it would be nice if they did. I've never thought that a Marvel villain was any match for the heroes. That's the main problem I have. It's also why Zemo was better than most, because he knew that the only real threat to the Avengers is themselves. Plus, I don't like the villains, but I know there's something you don't like about the MCU. If you truly think it's perfect, then how boring is it for you? I like to see how it can grow and nitpicking is fine when the bar is set so high. There's nothing wrong with criticizing a movie.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 19:19:27 GMT
Oh I don't disagree with you on any of those points. I just would never point to him as an example of a great movie villain. It's not that I dislike him, he was just never intended to be anything more than he is. The argument that the MCU doesn't have a lot of great villains doesn't necessarily imply that they're bad, only that they're not stellar. Ok so we agree there's no problem then. Awesome. :-) Yeah. I don't really see the villains as a problem like most people do. I just wish there were more that really stood out as "steal the show" villains.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 19:22:12 GMT
They threw Shocker in there? That's pretty cool. Uh, I mean, uh... THE MCU IS BAD AND DCEU IS BETTER AND -- meh, it's early. I'm tired. It's cool they put Shocker in, however briefly. I like that he's in there too. I just think his costume design in this movie is ass on wheels. Assuming of course the set pics are accurate.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 27, 2017 19:23:42 GMT
I'm not complaining, I'm pointing out what they could do better. I could be fine with Marvel if they never changed their villains, but I'm saying that it would be nice if they did. I've never thought that a Marvel villain was any match for the heroes. That's the main problem I have. It's also why Zemo was better than most, because he knew that the only real threat to the Avengers is themselves. Plus, I don't like the villains, but I know there's something you don't like about the MCU. If you truly think it's perfect, then how boring is it for you? I like to see how it can grow and nitpicking is fine when the bar is set so high. There's nothing wrong with criticizing a movie. Well that's great to hear, but I think they have a wide variety of villains. Pierce was an epic portrayal by Robert Redford of all people. It's amazing they got him. Ego was awesome. Ross has been great. Abomination was incredibly good. And then we have smaller villains with a more singular focus, and there's a place for that.
I really think this "marvels villain problem" thing is just extremely cliche'. It's not like Fox, Sony, or DC has a better track record of villains, so I don't really know what anybody is expecting. Every villain has to be the next Loki? Everything has been exactly what it needed to be as far as I can tell, so I truly don't get the villain bashing at all.
And actually there's really nothing I dislike about the MCU. It being more than I would have ever hoped for isn't boring at all, but I will say I'm enjoying that they're expanding and getting bigger with their vision.
There's nothing wrong with criticizing a movie. But boring isn't defined by not being able to criticize a film. I don't walk out of a film I loved thinking it's my obligation to find something to dislike about it, and I don't understand review sites who think it's their job to find something to dislike. Well made films deserve praise, not criticism. The MCU is one of the greatest achievements in all of cinematic history. I applaud them for that.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 27, 2017 19:26:41 GMT
Ok so we agree there's no problem then. Awesome. :-) Yeah. I don't really see the villains as a problem like most people do. I just wish there were more that really stood out as "steal the show" villains. That's reasonable. Is suspect we're about to have a few with Hela and Thanos on the horizon now. Vulture looks good too. And lets not forget about Kingpin and Purple Man.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on May 27, 2017 20:55:44 GMT
There are two different men playing two different Shockers.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 28, 2017 0:20:58 GMT
There are two different men playing two different Shockers. Well, yeah, obviously. Everyone knows -- wait, what?!
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Post by President Ackbar™ on May 28, 2017 2:08:37 GMT
There are two different men playing two different Shockers. Well, yeah, obviously. Everyone knows -- wait, what?! Spider-Man: Homecoming Has Two Different Shockers BRIAN GALLAGHERWay back in August, a rumored Spider-Man: Homecoming cast list started making the rounds, which revealed a number of interesting details such as Angourie Rice playing Betty Brandt and Bookeem Woodbine playing the villain known as the Shocker, a.k.a. Herman Schultz. Subsequent set photos that featured the Shocker costume seemed to confirm the validity of this list, but one detail many missed is that the list actually says that Bookeem Woodbine is playing "Schultz/Shocker #2." Since there was no other Shocker mentioned on the list, that detail became forgotten, but it seems now that it's quite valid. During a special Marvel press event earlier this week, Marvel Studios co-president Louis D'Esposito confirmed that Logan Marshall Green is actually playing the Shocker, who will reportedly join Bokeem Woodbine's Herman Schultz, with the film featuring two Shockers.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 28, 2017 2:44:24 GMT
Well, yeah, obviously. Everyone knows -- wait, what?! Spider-Man: Homecoming Has Two Different Shockers BRIAN GALLAGHERWay back in August, a rumored Spider-Man: Homecoming cast list started making the rounds, which revealed a number of interesting details such as Angourie Rice playing Betty Brandt and Bookeem Woodbine playing the villain known as the Shocker, a.k.a. Herman Schultz. Subsequent set photos that featured the Shocker costume seemed to confirm the validity of this list, but one detail many missed is that the list actually says that Bookeem Woodbine is playing "Schultz/Shocker #2." Since there was no other Shocker mentioned on the list, that detail became forgotten, but it seems now that it's quite valid. During a special Marvel press event earlier this week, Marvel Studios co-president Louis D'Esposito confirmed that Logan Marshall Green is actually playing the Shocker, who will reportedly join Bokeem Woodbine's Herman Schultz, with the film featuring two Shockers. But... why?!
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