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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 20:49:30 GMT
"Implied INCEST would mean kissing or having sex with someone that YOU KNOW is related to you." Ok so you don't know what incest actually means. Gotcha. Incest is when you kiss or have sex with someone that related to you. They didn't know they were related to each other... NO ONE new until Return of the Jedi came out... So it wasn't incest when the film came out, and it certainly was NEVER "implied". I'm still waiting to hear from you if Oedipus committed incest since he too didn't know. And yeah, those pics you posted are a BIT different from the way Leia and Luke kissed. I also believe the context is different, since I don't believe the family in those photos are doing it to make a romantic rival jealous, nor I reckon does the person on the receiving end of the kiss lie back explicitly turned on. |
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jun 5, 2022 20:52:16 GMT
"Implied INCEST would mean kissing or having sex with someone that YOU KNOW is related to you." Ok so you don't know what incest actually means. Gotcha. Incest is when you kiss or have sex with someone that related to you. They didn't know they were related to each other... NO ONE new until Return of the Jedi came out... So it wasn't incest when the film came out, and it certainly was NEVER "implied". Actually incest is when you have sex with a close family member, kissing well that depends a peck is not incest, French kissing is incest.
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Post by MCDemuth on Jun 5, 2022 20:52:35 GMT
Incest is when you kiss or have sex with someone that related to you. They didn't know they were related to each other... NO ONE new until Return of the Jedi came out... So it wasn't incest when the film came out, and it certainly was NEVER "implied". "Incest is when you kiss or have sex with someone that related to you." Yeah and Luke and Leia were related. How does this contradict what I said? "They didn't know they were related to each other..." That has nothing to do with incest, whether or not two relatives knowingly have sex with one another is irrelevant to the actual defintion of "incest". You can look it up yourself. "and it certainly was NEVER "implied"." Uh Leia and Luke made out in the second one, which IMPLIES sexual attraction, if Han wasn't a factor, well again who knows how far they would have taken it. Do you really wanna die on this hill? Luke SKYWALKER... was sexually attracted to... Leia ORGANA... As far a they knew, they were two completely UNRELATED people... Just two random people encountering anyone they meet throughout their Life... Had they KNOWN they were brother and sister, they never would have kissed each other! NO ONE, Not Luke, Leia, the Actors, the Writers, the Directors, and no one who saw the film in theaters back in 1980, knew that there was any kind of incest going on. I saw this film in theaters. I didn't know they were brother and sister until, Return of the Jedi came out Three Years Later!... This was before the Prequels came out thirty years later! I was never IMPLIED that these two were committing INCEST... It only became "INCEST" three years later, AFTER they did it... BTW, You have heard that this has happened in real life before, by people who were adopted and raised separately before, right?... Some of these people were even going to get married until they did blood tests and checked their birth certificates, and THEN discovered that they were related... AND THEN they stopped the wedding plans... Could happen to Anyone, including YOU & I... And, you know, you sure are taking this argument very personally and getting real nasty about it... " die on this hill"?... Is there something you want to tell the rest of us?
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jun 5, 2022 20:52:53 GMT
Incest is when you kiss or have sex with someone that related to you. They didn't know they were related to each other... NO ONE new until Return of the Jedi came out... So it wasn't incest when the film came out, and it certainly was NEVER "implied". I'm still waiting to hear from you if Oedipus committed incest since he too didn't know. And yeah, those pics you posted are a BIT different from the way Leia and Luke kissed. I also believe the context is different, since I don't believe the family in those photos are doing it to make a romantic rival jealous, nor I reckon does the person on the receiving end of the kiss lie back explicitly turned on. Not me you asked, but of course that is incest he had sex with his mother.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 5, 2022 20:57:17 GMT
"Incest is when you kiss or have sex with someone that related to you." Yeah and Luke and Leia were related. How does this contradict what I said? "They didn't know they were related to each other..." That has nothing to do with incest, whether or not two relatives knowingly have sex with one another is irrelevant to the actual defintion of "incest". You can look it up yourself. "and it certainly was NEVER "implied"." Uh Leia and Luke made out in the second one, which IMPLIES sexual attraction, if Han wasn't a factor, well again who knows how far they would have taken it. Do you really wanna die on this hill? Luke SKYWALKER... was sexually attracted to... Leia ORGANA... As far a they knew, they were two completely UNRELATED people... Just two random people encountering anyone they meet throughout their Life... Had they KNOWN they were brother and sister, they never would have kissed each other! NO ONE, Not Luke, Leia, the Actors, the Writers, the Directors, and no one who saw the film in theaters back in 1980, knew that there was any kind of incest going on. I saw this film in theaters. I didn't know they were brother and sister until, Return of the Jedi came out Three Years Later!... This was before the Prequels came out thirty years later! I was never IMPLIED that these two were committing INCEST... It only became "INCEST" three years later, AFTER they did it... BTW, You have heard that this has happened in real life before, by people who were adopted and raised separately before, right?... Some of these people were even going to get married until they did blood tests and checked their birth certificates, and THEN discovered that they were related... AND THEN they stopped the wedding plans... Could happen to Anyone, including YOU & I... And, you know, you sure are taking this argument very personally and getting real nasty about it... " die on this hill"?... Is there something you want to tell the rest of us? Dude for the last time, whether or not they actually KNEW they were related has nothing to do with the definition of "incest". If you're so confident in your argument, why don't you look up the defitionn and post it on here? "Had they KNOWN they were brother and sister, they never would have kissed each other!" Yeah you can unknowingly commit incest, this has nothing to with the actual definition of the term. You keep thinking incest implies INTENT, that's not what it actually means. "I was never IMPLIED that these two were committing INCEST... It only became "INCEST" three years later, AFTER they did it..." Yeah it was implied AFTER it was revealed Leia was his sister, I never said otherwise. Again what point are you trying to make? "BTW, You have heard that this has happened in real life before, by people who were adopted and raised separately before, right?... Some of these people were even going to get married until they did blood tests and checked their birth certificates, and THEN discovered that they were related... AND THEN they stopped the wedding plans..." Yeah they stopped the wedding because incest is illegal and considered socially unacceptable. This only proves my point. What argument are you trying to make? That people can unknowingly commit incest? Yeah, I don't deny that, that still counts as incest. Again why don't you look up the actual definition and post it on here if you're so confident in your claim. "And, you know, you sure are taking this argument very personally and getting real nasty about it" Yeah In tend to get frustrated when people don't know what they're talking about, but still insist like they do. You're a shining example of Dunning Krueger's effect.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2022 20:57:46 GMT
I'm still waiting to hear from you if Oedipus committed incest since he too didn't know. And yeah, those pics you posted are a BIT different from the way Leia and Luke kissed. I also believe the context is different, since I don't believe the family in those photos are doing it to make a romantic rival jealous, nor I reckon does the person on the receiving end of the kiss lie back explicitly turned on. Not me you asked, but of course that is incest he had sex with his mother. It was you, imdb2.freeforums.net/post/5462181And if your main argument against Luke and Leia is foresight, what difference does it make? |
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Post by MCDemuth on Jun 5, 2022 21:10:20 GMT
Dude for the last time, whether or not they actually KNEW they were related has nothing to do with the definition of "incest". If you're so confident in your argument, why don't you look up the defitionn and post it on here?d You are absolutey right... It WAS incest... BUT NOT IN 1980!It was NEVER implied. It only BECAME Incest when they wrote Return Of The Jedi... THAT is what the OP was talking about... That kiss ONLY became about incest, three years AFTER they did it. But for some reason, people like you can't get past that... and Everytime you see Empire Strikes Back, that's all you focus on... I ignore it. I know it was an accident or mistake if you will... And it wasn't meant to be sexual in 1980 anyway... It was about Leia pissing off Han, by kissing some other guy, which just happened to be Luke. "Incest Incest Incest"! You guys are sick and obsessed. Just like Jan Brady... "Marcia Marcia Maricia!"...
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Post by mstreepsucks on Jun 5, 2022 21:13:42 GMT
It was a bad idea at first because it seemingly comes out nowhere. It makes a wide universe seem even smaller if your main characters are so close in familial relationships. I can buy Leia is Force sensitive as hinted in The Empire Strikes Back, but I wish George Lucas did create a new female character instead of selecting Leia. Now that we have a prequel trilogy that has explained why they were separated at birth, I can accept it. EDIT: Also, Lucas wrote Leia to be Luke's sister because he had to explain what Yoda meant by "There is another". Originally, Luke's sister was to be a new character that Luke would meet in the earliest concepts of the "sequel trilogy". However, The Empire Strikes Back proved to be a chaotic production that he scrapped plans for a sequel trilogy. He then decided to end the series with Return of the Jedi and make Leia Luke's sister to close that plot line. Really, you think adding another female character would be a good idea? You mean a female that's actually in the films? I think personally that, that would ruin things. Considering star wars is a male oriented series. I think adding another female would hurt the films, even if it made one plot thing make more sense.
I mean, yea it makes the universe seem smaller I suppose. But that's better than having more females in it. Imo.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 5, 2022 21:15:12 GMT
Dude for the last time, whether or not they actually KNEW they were related has nothing to do with the definition of "incest". If you're so confident in your argument, why don't you look up the defitionn and post it on here?d You are absolutey right... It WAS incest... BUT NOT IN 1980!It was NEVER implied. It only BECAME Incest when they wrote Return Of The Jedi... THAT is what the OP was talking about... That kiss ONLY became about incest, three years AFTER they did it. But for some reason, people like you can't get past that... and Everytime you see Empire Strikes Back, that's all you focus on... I ignore it. I know it was an accident or mistake if you will... And it wasn't meant to be sexual in 1980 anyway... It was about Leia pissing off Han, by kissing some other guy, which just happened to be Luke. "Incest Incest Incest"! You guys are sick and obsessed. Just like Jan Brady... "Marcia Marcia Maricia!"... OK if you're goal is to irritate me to the point where I give up, fine. Luke and Leia made out, which implies sexual attraction, and if Han wasn't in the picture they almost certainly have gotten it on and had inbred, deformed Jedi children. But there's absolutely no implied incest there. You're absolutely correct, you win.
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Post by MCDemuth on Jun 5, 2022 21:21:27 GMT
You are absolutey right... It WAS incest... BUT NOT IN 1980!It was NEVER implied. It only BECAME Incest when they wrote Return Of The Jedi... THAT is what the OP was talking about... That kiss ONLY became about incest, three years AFTER they did it. But for some reason, people like you can't get past that... and Everytime you see Empire Strikes Back, that's all you focus on... I ignore it. I know it was an accident or mistake if you will... And it wasn't meant to be sexual in 1980 anyway... It was about Leia pissing off Han, by kissing some other guy, which just happened to be Luke. "Incest Incest Incest"! You guys are sick and obsessed. Just like Jan Brady... "Marcia Marcia Maricia!"... OK if you're goal is to irritate me to the point where I give up, fine. Luke and Leia made out, which implies sexual attraction, and if Han wasn't in the picture they almost certainly have gotten it on and had inbred Jedi children. But there's absolutely no implied incest there. You're absolutely correct, you win. What the fuck is wrong with you? I'm not trying to irritate you... Why can't you admit, that in 1980, when Empire Strikes Back came out... LUKE AND LEIA WERE NOT BROTHER AND SISTER... And therefore it was NOT incest... For it to be IMPLIED... Everyone in the world would have had to have known, that they were brother and sister... No One knew. NOT even Lucas. It was not until THREE years later, that this revelation become known, and then we all came to realize that kiss was actually disgusting. If you can't see this, and acknowledge this, then I am done with this fuckin' conversation.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 5, 2022 21:26:32 GMT
OK if you're goal is to irritate me to the point where I give up, fine. Luke and Leia made out, which implies sexual attraction, and if Han wasn't in the picture they almost certainly have gotten it on and had inbred Jedi children. But there's absolutely no implied incest there. You're absolutely correct, you win. What the fuck is wrong with you? I'm not trying to irritate you... Why can't you admit, that in 1980, when Empire Strikes Back came out... LUKE AND LEIA WERE NOT BROTHER AND SISTER... And therefore it was NOT incest... For it to be IMPLIED... Everyone in the world would have had to have known, that they were brother and sister... No One knew. NOT even Lucas. It was not until THREE years later, that this revelation become known, and then we all came to realize that kiss was actually disgusting. If you can't see this, and acknowledge this, then I am done with this fuckin' conversation. "Why can't you admit, that in 1980, when Empire Strikes Back came out... LUKE AND LEIA WERE NOT BROTHER AND SISTER... And therefore it was NOT incest..." Yeah obviously it wasn't incest in that movie because the reveal wasn't made till the next film. I dunno how this contradicts what I said. "For it to be IMPLIED... Everyone in the world would have had to have known, that they were brother and sister... No One knew. NOT even Lucas." Uh no, that's not what "implied" means. "It was not until THREE years later, that this revelation become known, and then we all came to realize that kiss was actually disgusting." Yeah and that's when the incest implication came about. I never said the incest implication happened when Empire Strikes Back first happened, you're arguing against a Strawman.
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Post by Archelaus on Jun 6, 2022 6:24:04 GMT
It was a bad idea at first because it seemingly comes out nowhere. It makes a wide universe seem even smaller if your main characters are so close in familial relationships. I can buy Leia is Force sensitive as hinted in The Empire Strikes Back, but I wish George Lucas did create a new female character instead of selecting Leia. Now that we have a prequel trilogy that has explained why they were separated at birth, I can accept it. EDIT: Also, Lucas wrote Leia to be Luke's sister because he had to explain what Yoda meant by "There is another". Originally, Luke's sister was to be a new character that Luke would meet in the earliest concepts of the "sequel trilogy". However, The Empire Strikes Back proved to be a chaotic production that he scrapped plans for a sequel trilogy. He then decided to end the series with Return of the Jedi and make Leia Luke's sister to close that plot line. Really, you think adding another female character would be a good idea? You mean a female that's actually in the films? I think personally that, that would ruin things. Considering star wars is a male oriented series. I think adding another female would hurt the films, even if it made one plot thing make more sense.
I mean, yea it makes the universe seem smaller I suppose. But that's better than having more females in it. Imo.
In my honest opinion, I think you are dead wrong. Mara Jade and Ahsoka Tano are fan favorite characters who happen to be female. Just write a relatable female character who's interesting and the fans will grow to like them. Also, Star Wars by then had predominantly male characters so another female character wouldn't tilted the balance by much.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Jun 6, 2022 6:54:07 GMT
Really, you think adding another female character would be a good idea? You mean a female that's actually in the films? I think personally that, that would ruin things. Considering star wars is a male oriented series. I think adding another female would hurt the films, even if it made one plot thing make more sense.
I mean, yea it makes the universe seem smaller I suppose. But that's better than having more females in it. Imo.
In my honest opinion, I think you are dead wrong. Mara Jade and Ahsoka Tano are fan favorite characters who happen to be female. Just write a relatable female character who's interesting and the fans will grow to like them. Also, Star Wars by then had predominantly male characters so another female character wouldn't tilted the balance by much. Mara Jade and Ahsoka Tano, who? I would say that the original trilogy only had room for one female character that was written in the exact same way that she was written.
But, if they changed anything about the first film , there's no guarantee that they would have been able to make the next one. Especially adding another female character. They would have had much less of a chance to make the next film if they had another female in it. But also, why would they even do that?
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Post by novastar6 on Jun 6, 2022 7:11:02 GMT
Trying to get this conversation back on topic...
It makes no sense. If the Force is so strong in Luke's family, why didn't Vader know Leia had it in the first movie? And why wasn't she flipping out when Luke revealed she's his sister and Vader's their father? THEIR father? Hers too, the man who blew up her entire home planet and the only family she's ever known, just nothing.
But, that said, it is funny how for NOT planning it, Leia has a temper shown through the previous movies that WOULD make her an easy candidate to turn to the dark side.
I wish we could've gotten to see what Luke's real sister would've been like though. Would she at least be the same height?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jun 6, 2022 18:25:42 GMT
It worked out great.
Just like the Vader reveal did.
More proof of George's storytelling genius.
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