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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 11:50:34 GMT
DT says Arsenal... what do you think? Let's settle it right here and right now
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Post by staggerstag on May 28, 2017 11:58:22 GMT
Huh? No contest, to my eyes. All the way to N17. Champions League, 2nd in table, terrific season stats, great football. And I don't even support 'em. But credit where it's due.
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Post by dougb on May 28, 2017 11:58:24 GMT
Depends on perspective. As a fan I would say Arsenal, as to a fan it's about great days out and trophies. From an owners point of view you would say Spurs as to them it's all about revenue streams and getting into the following years Champions league.
Spurs have been brilliant far more consistently and have a great squad whilst Arsenal can beat anyone but only when firing on all cylinders.
A year out of the Champions league may even be productive to Arsenal long term, but the Sanchez question will be critical to them in the next month or so.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 12:11:15 GMT
Right here and now... Arsenal.
If Tottenham go on to be a dominant force in English football and Arsenal drop off, you could argue this was a better season for Tottenham in terms of moving towards that. But if Tottenham do fuck-all next season what good was finishing 2nd?
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on May 28, 2017 12:59:09 GMT
Arsenal - the game is about glory and Spurs didn't win anything. Finishing top four isn't an achievement in itself, it's a means to winning trophies.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 7:45:00 GMT
So you wouldn't have swapped your FA Cup win for 2nd place in the league?
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Post by mangekyoalleluia on May 29, 2017 8:46:18 GMT
Arsenal ofc, Spurs bottled it.
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Post by sdm3 on May 29, 2017 8:59:54 GMT
So you wouldn't have swapped your FA Cup win for 2nd place in the league? We finished 2nd last year and won nothing, just like Spurs this year. What good did that do? The aim of the game is to win trophies, not simply to qualify for the Champions League. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 9:07:13 GMT
So you wouldn't have swapped your FA Cup win for 2nd place in the league? We finished 2nd last year and won nothing, just like Spurs this year. What good did that do? The aim of the game is to win trophies, not simply to qualify for the Champions League. I guess so. Although finishing outside the top 4 will mean less money, players might be more inclined to move on and it can get harder to persuade players to sign. Stay outside the top 4 for too long and it might get harder and harder to get back on that gravy train. |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on May 29, 2017 11:46:17 GMT
So you wouldn't have swapped your FA Cup win for 2nd place in the league? Absolutely not. 2nd has never been anything other than a big disappointment as far as I'm concerned. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 11:52:29 GMT
So you wouldn't have swapped your FA Cup win for 2nd place in the league? Not bloody likely. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 11:59:35 GMT
And why would we, given Arsenal's consistent lack of achievement in CL for the past few years?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 16:28:44 GMT
And why would we, given Arsenal's consistent lack of achievement in CL for the past few years? Fair point. And Arsenal will probably be the best team in the Europa Cup next year (although they might be joined by one or two heavyweights who get knocked out the CL early), so chance for another trophy, but it is a long slog and anything can happen in the KO stages. I think Mourinho showed you don't even have to be that good, the key is a solid defence, and I think Arsenal made improvements in that area towards the end. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 16:34:14 GMT
So you wouldn't have swapped your FA Cup win for 2nd place in the league? Absolutely not. 2nd has never been anything other than a big disappointment as far as I'm concerned. But I think Tottenham fans look at it as progress, it's not like they blew a big lead, Chelsea finished with 93 points, not many teams have ever finished with more points than that, and I don't think anyone is going to get that many points again for a good few years. |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on May 29, 2017 17:12:09 GMT
Absolutely not. 2nd has never been anything other than a big disappointment as far as I'm concerned. But I think Tottenham fans look at it as progress, it's not like they blew a big lead, Chelsea finished with 93 points, not many teams have ever finished with more points than that, and I don't think anyone is going to get that many points again for a good few years. It's progress, sure, but it's not success. Arsenal finished second last season after finishing third the previous season, how much good did it do them? How many Arsenal fans now look back on that season and see anything really positive except Spurs' collapse? How many people even gave a shit who finished second at the time? Spurs didn't seem to when they were shipping 5 at Newcastle. For me success in football is about winning things, not finishing as best runner up. |
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Post by Reggie_Stration on May 30, 2017 9:05:32 GMT
Firstly let's debunk this myth that in order to have a successful season you HAVE to win something. There are different ways of being successful. If it was all about silverware then only a very small number of teams out of the hundreds of football teams there are in the country, ever have successful seasons. You have to look at the team involved and what they've done. If Leicester had only finished 2nd instead of winning the title, it wouldn't have made it an unsuccessful season.
For Spurs, a team that was never really predicted to finish in the top 4, and with the least financial muscle of all the teams in the top 6, it has been a successful season to finish 2nd, on a record number of league points (14 or 15 points better than the previous best), and with the consistency of performances they've put in. It's further progress and a sign that the big trophies may be just around the corner. It's the latter that people tend to ignore when simply stating that "Arsenal did this last year". No they didn't. They finished 2nd but limped to 2nd, way off the leaders and with a much more inconsistent league campaign, proving that they have that soft underbelly still and are papering over cracks. The same thing this year with the FA Cup this time papering over their cracks.
Arsenal fans in my opinion would generally be more enthused by Arsenal had they done what Spurs had done; getting a high points total, going unbeaten at home the whole season, and losing as few games as they have, because this is the sort of thing they haven't done for 10 years, and would see this as a big turnaround of their mental toughness. Whereas, simply winning the FA Cup, nothing has changed from the other 2 recent seasons when they won the FA Cup. It wasn't really a good enough season for a big club like Arsenal then, so why should one when they win the FA Cup and not only not get near 1st place but finish outside of the CL, be any better?
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