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Post by Skaathar on Aug 25, 2022 22:11:29 GMT
Ok, let me see if I can convince you. Let's take that short clip of her explaining her anger control as an example. In that short clip, she tells Bruce in no uncertain terms that she's "infinitely better at controlling her anger than him" because she regularly gets cat-called and mansplained to. Completely disregarding the fact that Bruce has been hunted down like a dog by the military, has literally fought for his life multiple times, have experienced multiple friends and even a lover killed by violence, and has even been brainwashed and had his body controlled by a different conscience and forced to do things he never would have wanted to. He's also undergone very rigid meditation techniques since 2008, has had mental conditioning exercises with Black Widow, has needed to constantly battle the Hulk for control of his body, and knows that any time he loses control over his temper he can easily kill dozens if not hundreds of people. I don't think most people would deny that getting cat-called or being mansplained to would test your temper, but to claim that those are worse than everything Bruce has been through? I hope you can see why a LOT of people take issues with this narrative. Then there's the tone she used. She was fairly aggressive and condescending, lecturing Bruce in a way that made it clear she fully felt she was right and he was wrong. She did the exact same thing she complained men did to her. She belittled Bruce's experience, disregarded his input, and lectured him on a topic he was clearly the bigger expert on. Most people don't deny that women have issues but like I said, I don't think that's the problem here. The issue is that if you act like a douchebag, you're going to piss off people. The first episode made its lead character act like a douchebag then doubled-down on it by presenting it as if she was right to do it. That's bound to piss off a lot of people. The line is said when she clearly annoyed with Bruce. It makes sense in context of the scene. And yet Hulk never corrects her, doesn't even contradict her. She also never apologized or corrected herself. Therefore, regardless of whether she was pissed off or not, the show framed it in such a way to make her look like she was right. Heck, they even marketed that specific clip on social media. So again, it's not unreasonable for a good number of people to get pissed off at this.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 25, 2022 22:24:53 GMT
The line is said when she clearly annoyed with Bruce. It makes sense in context of the scene. And yet Hulk never corrects her, doesn't even contradict her. She also never apologized or corrected herself. Therefore, regardless of whether she was pissed off or not, the show framed it in such a way to make her look like she was right. Heck, they even marketed that specific clip on social media. So again, it's not unreasonable for a good number of people to get pissed off at this. I got the impression that Hulk just didn't want to continue the argument. Which I don't blame him. As for her "not apologizing" we're only two episodes in and Hulk is off in space now. Maybe she will near the end of the series, but I feel like Banner has more important things to worry about. Hell that phone call between the two made it seem like they're still on good terms with each other. I don't recall Marvel's social media showing off that clip. The one I shared was from imdb twitter account. Like I said that line is just an excuse from the usual suspects who already had it out for the show since the first trailer.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 25, 2022 22:36:56 GMT
And yet Hulk never corrects her, doesn't even contradict her. She also never apologized or corrected herself. Therefore, regardless of whether she was pissed off or not, the show framed it in such a way to make her look like she was right. Heck, they even marketed that specific clip on social media. So again, it's not unreasonable for a good number of people to get pissed off at this. I got the impression that Hulk just didn't want to continue the argument. Which I don't blame him. As for her "not apologizing" we're only two episodes in and Hulk is off in space now. Maybe she will near the end of the series, but I feel like Banner has more important things to worry about. Hell that phone call between the two made it seem like they're still on good terms with each other. I don't recall Marvel's social media showing off that clip. The one I shared was from imdb twitter account. Like I said that line is just an excuse from the usual suspects who already had it out for the show since the first trailer. But that's just your own personal interpretation. Like I said, nothing in the episode itself framed it to imply that Jen was incorrect. And yes, she didn't apologize. Sure she might do so in latter episodes but people can only judge what is currently shown, and so far she hasnt' been shown to apologize or even admit she was wrong. And no, I disagree that it was just an "excuse from the usual suspects". I remember checking She-Hulk's IMDB rating just before the first episode came out. It had somewhere around 1200 ratings giving it 1/10, and slightly more ratings giving it 10/10 stars. Whatever negative review bombing it received prior to the show even coming out was negated by the slightly more numerous positive review bombings it got. Then the first episode came out, and now we're sitting at almost 16k negative 1/10 reviews compared to 11.3k positive 10/10 reviews. It's got the lowest IMDB score for any MCU related product that we've seen. Clearly there was something in those episodes that irritated people enough to rate it this low. You can't dismiss valid criticism under the excuse of "it's just the usual suspects" when the negative criticism is this numerous, far more than what most female-led superhero shows get.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 25, 2022 22:56:28 GMT
I got the impression that Hulk just didn't want to continue the argument. Which I don't blame him. As for her "not apologizing" we're only two episodes in and Hulk is off in space now. Maybe she will near the end of the series, but I feel like Banner has more important things to worry about. Hell that phone call between the two made it seem like they're still on good terms with each other. I don't recall Marvel's social media showing off that clip. The one I shared was from imdb twitter account. Like I said that line is just an excuse from the usual suspects who already had it out for the show since the first trailer. But that's just your own personal interpretation. Like I said, nothing in the episode itself framed it to imply that Jen was incorrect. And yes, she didn't apologize. Sure she might do so in latter episodes but people can only judge what is currently shown, and so far she hasnt' been shown to apologize or even admit she was wrong. And no, I disagree that it was just an "excuse from the usual suspects". I remember checking She-Hulk's IMDB rating just before the first episode came out. It had somewhere around 1200 ratings giving it 1/10, and slightly more ratings giving it 10/10 stars. Whatever negative review bombing it received prior to the show even coming out was negated by the slightly more numerous positive review bombings it got. Then the first episode came out, and now we're sitting at almost 16k negative 1/10 reviews compared to 11.3k positive 10/10 reviews. It's got the lowest IMDB score for any MCU related product that we've seen. Clearly there was something in those episodes that irritated people enough to rate it this low. You can't dismiss valid criticism under the excuse of "it's just the usual suspects" when the negative criticism is this numerous, far more than what most female-led superhero shows get. I'm not saying that there isn't any valid criticism to made with the show, but ever since the first trailer dropped I've seen words like "woke" and "feminist propaganda" get thrown around towards this show. So I'm not convinced that it wasn't just that line that made them upset. They were already upset with the series since it's inception.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2022 23:12:28 GMT
Single female lawyer. Fighting for her clients. Wearing sexy mini skirts and feeling self reliant.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 25, 2022 23:14:41 GMT
But that's just your own personal interpretation. Like I said, nothing in the episode itself framed it to imply that Jen was incorrect. And yes, she didn't apologize. Sure she might do so in latter episodes but people can only judge what is currently shown, and so far she hasnt' been shown to apologize or even admit she was wrong. And no, I disagree that it was just an "excuse from the usual suspects". I remember checking She-Hulk's IMDB rating just before the first episode came out. It had somewhere around 1200 ratings giving it 1/10, and slightly more ratings giving it 10/10 stars. Whatever negative review bombing it received prior to the show even coming out was negated by the slightly more numerous positive review bombings it got. Then the first episode came out, and now we're sitting at almost 16k negative 1/10 reviews compared to 11.3k positive 10/10 reviews. It's got the lowest IMDB score for any MCU related product that we've seen. Clearly there was something in those episodes that irritated people enough to rate it this low. You can't dismiss valid criticism under the excuse of "it's just the usual suspects" when the negative criticism is this numerous, far more than what most female-led superhero shows get. I'm not saying that there isn't any valid criticism to made with the show, but ever since the first trailer dropped I've seen words like "woke" and "feminist propaganda" get thrown around towards this show. So I'm not convinced that it wasn't just that line that made them upset. They were already upset with the series since it's inception. And I get that. But what I'm saying is that, while there are indeed people who immediately hate on this show due to its feminist themes, majority of the backlash is more due to the preachy, condescending tone the show takes when delivering its feminist messages. That and the crappy writing it uses to deliver said messaging. That's why this show is getting way more backlash than other gynocentric shows like Westworld, Jessica Jones, Black Widow, Harley Quinn, The Handmaid's Tale, even Captain Marvel. Let me put it this way. How would you feel if the roles in that scene were gender swapped? What if, in Age of Ultron where Black Widow was asked to try and pick up Mjolnir, Thor said something along the lines of "Oh, yeah that probably won't work. Usually only men have a chance at picking Mjolnir up because men are more conditioned to sacrifice their lives for others". How well do you you think a line like that would have been received?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 25, 2022 23:24:53 GMT
I'm not saying that there isn't any valid criticism to made with the show, but ever since the first trailer dropped I've seen words like "woke" and "feminist propaganda" get thrown around towards this show. So I'm not convinced that it wasn't just that line that made them upset. They were already upset with the series since it's inception. And I'm saying, that while there are indeed people who immediately hate on this show due to its feminist themes, majority of the backlash is more due to the preachy, condescending tone the show takes when delivering its feminist messages. That's why this show is getting way more backlash than other gynocentric shows like Westworld, Jessica Jones, Black Widow, Harley Quinn, The Handmaid's Tale, even Captain Marvel. Let me put it this way. How would you feel if the roles in that scene were gender swapped? What if, in Age of Ultron where Black Widow was asked to try and pick up Mjolnir, Thor said something along the lines of "Oh, yeah that probably won't work. Usually only men have a chance at picking Mjolnir up because men are more conditioned to sacrifice their lives for others". How well do you you think a line like that would have been received? Obviously there would be some people upset. There would also be some people who would unironically support what Thor said.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 25, 2022 23:28:26 GMT
And I'm saying, that while there are indeed people who immediately hate on this show due to its feminist themes, majority of the backlash is more due to the preachy, condescending tone the show takes when delivering its feminist messages. That's why this show is getting way more backlash than other gynocentric shows like Westworld, Jessica Jones, Black Widow, Harley Quinn, The Handmaid's Tale, even Captain Marvel. Let me put it this way. How would you feel if the roles in that scene were gender swapped? What if, in Age of Ultron where Black Widow was asked to try and pick up Mjolnir, Thor said something along the lines of "Oh, yeah that probably won't work. Usually only men have a chance at picking Mjolnir up because men are more conditioned to sacrifice their lives for others". How well do you you think a line like that would have been received? Obviously there would be some people upset. There would also be some people who would unironically support what Thor said. Yes, some. And that's my main point here. There will always be some people who will be unreasonable and illogical. Who'll hate simply to hate. But that's not what we're seeing here, because this isn't a backlash from only a few people. To get an IMDB score of 5.3/10 (and getting lower by the day), you're talking about roughly half your target audience disliking your show. That's not just some people. And regarding my Thor example above, sure some people might support what he said, yet the greater majority of audiences would have complained about it.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 25, 2022 23:36:46 GMT
Obviously there would be some people upset. There would also be some people who would unironically support what Thor said. Yes, some. And that's my main point here. There will always be some people who will be unreasonable and illogical. Who'll hate simply to hate. But that's not what we're seeing here, because this isn't a backlash from only a few people. To get an IMDB score of 5.3/10 (and getting lower by the day), you're talking about roughly half your target audience disliking your show. That's not just some people. And regarding my Thor example above, sure some people might support what he said, yet the greater majority of audiences would have complained about it. Look we're getting nowhere. Obviously our opinions are not going to change about that line. If people are truly upset over that line, they ate more than welcome to stop watching the show. I just find it amusing that the ones calling people "snowflakes" are triggered by that line. Kinda reminds me of the white privilege remark in The Batman.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 25, 2022 23:50:36 GMT
Yes, some. And that's my main point here. There will always be some people who will be unreasonable and illogical. Who'll hate simply to hate. But that's not what we're seeing here, because this isn't a backlash from only a few people. To get an IMDB score of 5.3/10 (and getting lower by the day), you're talking about roughly half your target audience disliking your show. That's not just some people. And regarding my Thor example above, sure some people might support what he said, yet the greater majority of audiences would have complained about it. Look we're getting nowhere. Obviously our opinions are not going to change about that line. If people are truly upset over that line, they ate more than welcome to stop watching the show. I just find it amusing that the ones calling people "snowflakes" are triggered by that line. Kinda reminds me of the white privilege remark in The Batman. Yeah well, if you take potshots at people then you can't really expect them to just sit there and take it with a smile. Obviously they'll get pissed off. Can't blame people for reacting badly when they feel they've been insulted. And my point here is that insults are easily flung from both directions, it's not just one side who's doing it. I'm not going to force you if you disagree. Personally, I haven't lost hope with She-Hulk so I'll continue to watch it, but I do think it's toeing the line between legitimate feminism and misandry. If the MCU doesn't start bringing better writers for their shows and tone down the political messaging then they'll eventually alienate a huge chunk of their fanbase. Hopefully they'll learn from She-Hulk. Because in the end, I don't wish this kind of negativity on any show, especially not on superhero shows I like to watch. It would be great to be able to watch a show that's simply intent on delivering a good show instead of poking one bear or another.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2022 1:05:15 GMT
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Post by Cat on Aug 26, 2022 5:01:23 GMT
So far so decent still.
Strange seeing Emil Blonsky back. I didn't think much of him in the movie, which I never liked, despite how much I like Edward Norton. Incredible actor, but also the weak link in the movie. Blonsky's arguments are good, even if he is a villain, or the villain.
Should be interesting to see what or how Bruce pans out in space. He must have wrangled that ship when we weren't looking.
Maslany still shines and is still the strongest link. Not much of a surprise if you've seen Orphan Black.
Another week, another episode has gone by.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 26, 2022 17:51:03 GMT
Random thought: What kind of boss fires an employee in a bar while they're drunk?
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Post by Marv on Aug 26, 2022 18:33:51 GMT
Random thought: What kind of boss fires an employee in a bar while they're drunk? A friend of mine got laid off once while packing his car for his honeymoon, hours after his wedding. His boss delivered his check to his driveway for him. It’s unprofessional but it does happen.
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Post by Cat on Aug 26, 2022 19:02:14 GMT
Random thought: What kind of boss fires an employee in a bar while they're drunk? A friend of mine got laid off once while packing his car for his honeymoon, hours after his wedding. His boss delivered his check to his driveway for him. It’s unprofessional but it does happen. A friend of mine got fired by text message a day or two before the end of his probation. Turns out he was an unknowing filler for someone on vacation. We'd just got back to my house after a late night showing of the second Hobbit movie.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 26, 2022 19:43:09 GMT
Random thought: What kind of boss fires an employee in a bar while they're drunk? A friend of mine got laid off once while packing his car for his honeymoon, hours after his wedding. His boss delivered his check to his driveway for him. It’s unprofessional but it does happen. Absolutely savage. One of my old partners got fired after he got back from his honeymoon, but at least that was in the office.
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Post by merh on Aug 27, 2022 16:16:51 GMT
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 28, 2022 15:37:10 GMT
To be fair, now that Tony is dead and Cap is retired, there really isn't any Avengers anymore. So Falcon wasn't an Avenger at this point, he was just unemployed. He also wasn't an Avenger till AoU in 2015, and I don't think 6 years work in any particular company is enough to get you a decent pension.
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Post by Cat on Aug 28, 2022 16:45:47 GMT
To be fair, now that Tony is dead and Cap is retired, there really isn't any Avengers anymore. So Falcon wasn't an Avenger at this point, he was just unemployed. He also wasn't an Avenger till AoU in 2015, and I don't think 6 years work in any particular company is enough to get you a decent pension. They're just poking fun I think. The Avengers for the most part are independently wealthy. They're millionaires and kings. Only the working class ones like Spiderman or Ant-Man would be screwed without those perks. Frankly I'm surprised at Falcon's difficulty getting a loan because he's ex military, but when Iron Man died, so did the company purse.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2022 23:55:59 GMT
Can anyone explain why the audience score on RT is locked? Hasn’t changed in over a week. That’s very suspicious.
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