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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 23, 2022 2:33:28 GMT
Duffel-coat-wearing, shaggy-haired, windmill-inhabiting magic-trick designer solves seemingly impossible crimes in the show that never seems to end, always returning from the grave when creator David Renwick needs money. I love this silly show, even though a bunch of episodes are bad. The first two seasons—1997 to 1998, including Christmas special “Black Canary”—are superb, some of the best TV mysteries ever made. Season 3 (1999-2000) was a downgrade, but 2001 Christmas special “Satan’s Chimney” was a return to form. Season 4 got sillier but was more entertaining than 3—and appeared to be the last we’d see of Jonathan. And then the show popped up again years later with a decent special—and got worse and worse, until Renwick eventually had Jonathan investigating the mystery of why his wife was afraid of carrots. I just watched—six years after it aired!—the supposedly last (ha ha) JC episode, “Daemons’ Roost,” and it’s much better than Season 5 with the fear of carrots. But it’s not comparable to JC’s best episodes. Any fans here? I was thinking of making a top 10. 1. “Black Canary” (1998 Christmas special) 2. “Jack in the Box” (S1:E2) 3. “Mother Redcap” (S2:E6) 4. “Satan’s Chimney” (2001 Christmas special) 5. “The Tailor’s Dummy” (S4:E3) 6. “Danse Macabre” (S2:E1) 7. “The Problem at Gallows Gate” (two-parter, S2:E4-5) 8. “No Trace of Tracy” (S1:E4) 9. “Angel Hair” (S4:E2) 10. “The Grinning Man” (2009 Christmas special)
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Aug 23, 2022 8:23:27 GMT
I like Jonathan Creek, i think its a good show.
My top 10 episode would be the same as yours, just in a different order
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 23, 2022 15:51:55 GMT
While “Daemons’ Roost,” the episode I watched last night, was much better than the Season 5 eps, it reminded me of an apparently much-needed lesson for aspiring mystery writers—that mysteries have to be clear with their setups.
Creator-writer David Renwick’s solutions are good, even great: The main one is basically a magic trick reworked as an impossible-crime solution, a Renwick specialty (cf. “Black Canary,” “The Tailor’s Dummy,” and especially “Danse Macabre”). I’d go so far as to say Renwick’s been rewatching some Penn and Teller specials.
But his setups for the tricks aren’t good: It’s hard for the viewer to get a good sense of what’s going on, and for much of the ep we’re not even sure what Jonathan is investigating. For example, the titular “Daemons’ Roost” manor was supposedly built by a Satanist. But now it’s owned by a Hammer horror director who used it as inspiration for his movies. Problem is, the Satanist backstory is confusing because it’s so irrelevant—the director and the Satanist serve the same purpose in-story, so a bunch of reviewers were confused on who was who. The Satanist backstory, meanwhile, gets mentioned once or twice and then never features into the plot.
That’s putting aside the story’s other flaws: the unfunny comedy (Renwick started out as a comedy writer—he also created One Foot in the Grave—but I generally find his Jonathan Creek comedy writing far inferior to his mystery writing), some pointless characters, general muddiness in the plotting, an anticlimactic murderer.
But mystery writers should learn just from the setup element: You have to present the mystery puzzle clearly. (The exception, of course, is if the puzzle is “what is going on?”—but even then the reader has to be clear that that’s the puzzle the writer’s going for.)
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Post by forca84 on Aug 28, 2022 19:26:33 GMT
Haven't watched it. But have binged "Midsomer Murders", "Inspector Lewis""Rosemary & Thyme", and "Inspector Alleyn".
Some "Wallander" as well. Looks similar to those shows.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 29, 2022 19:03:37 GMT
Haven't watched it. But have binged "Midsomer Murders", "Inspector Lewis""Rosemary & Thyme", and "Inspector Alleyn". Some "Wallander" as well. Looks similar to those shows. Broadly similar to those, but I’d say JC is better (though I haven’t seen Wallander and only lasted through a few minutes of Rosemary & Thyme). It provides a better mystery than almost every other mystery TV show—I’m not even sure what’s comparable; when Renwick was on his game, in the early seasons, he wrote probably the best original-for-TV mysteries ever. In the early seasons, too, his comedy writing was better, and the episodes are expertly paced—and, thus, lots of fun. Creek’s biggest problem for me is the unlikability of the characters, but if you can overlook (or don’t mind) that and you like mysteries, you’ll probably love it. A good first episode is “Danse Macabre,” the Season 2 opener—not the show’s best episode, but an encapsulated version of everything the show’s about. Any Midsomers or Lewises you really liked? Midsomer strikes me as the essence of a “cozy mystery”—what people think Agatha Christie is. John Nettles is warm and likable as Barnaby, but the only episode that wowed me is that Christmas one with the garage door closer, and I haven’t seen that ep in years. I liked the episodes I saw of Lewis, but I’m not sure why: It’s so humorless, even (especially?) when it goes goofy. But the pacing is good, and I remember liking Hathaway. I’d love to see a standout episode of either show, though.
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Post by forca84 on Aug 30, 2022 16:16:48 GMT
"Midsomer" is a cozy mystery. I also enjoyed seeing his Family and home life. Also when John Nettles left and got a replacement it was still good. I believe there are a few newer episodes recently made that I haven't watched yet.
But as for a favorite case? They all tend to blend together when binging. I thought the one about an old man who loved nature and animals was melancholy and sweet. (I'm a huge sucker for animals.) There was a cute Fox in that episode.
As for "Lewis" I'm a fan of the actor who plays his partner. I've probably seen a handful of episodes.
"Wallander" tends to get dark and creepy. And isn't cozy like the other shows. But again I've only seen so many episode's.
I'm a bit burned out on this genre. Since binging "Midsomer". I'll probably finish "Inspector Alleyn" one day.
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Post by Nalkarj on Aug 30, 2022 16:36:09 GMT
"Midsomer" is a cozy mystery. I also enjoyed seeing his Family and home life. Also when John Nettles left and got a replacement it was still good. I believe there are a few newer episodes recently made that I haven't watched yet. But as for a favorite case? They all tend to blend together when binging. I thought the one about an old man who loved nature and animals was melancholy and sweet. (I'm a huge sucker for animals.) There was a cute Fox in that episode. As for "Lewis" I'm a fan of the actor who plays his partner. I've probably seen a handful of episodes. "Wallander" tends to get dark and creepy. And isn't cozy like the other shows. But again I've only seen so many episode's. I'm a bit burned out on this genre. Since binging "Midsomer". I'll probably finish "Inspector Alleyn" one day. Yeah, I can’t imagine binging Midsomer! As I said, I remember liking the Christmas one, but I can’t remember who the murderer was or even vaguely what the actor looked like! (Whereas I can remember the killers in many Creeks.) I like Laurence Fox (Lewis’s partner Hathaway) as well. Do you like Morse? It seems like it should be exactly my kind of thing, but the episodes I’ve seen were just dull. By Inspector Alleyn, you mean the Patrick Malahide adaptations? I should watch more of those: Looking at the list of episodes, I see they adapted my favorite of Ngaio Marsh’s books, Final Curtain. I know I’ve seen the Malahide adaptation of A Man Lay Dead, which is better than the terrible book.
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Post by forca84 on Aug 30, 2022 17:39:06 GMT
I felt like just binging it. 😆 I guess I'm a Completist. But probably won't watch it again anytime soon.(Maybe the newer episodes just released.)
Yes "Alleyn" is based on the books. But what I read is that they are a bit different from the source material. There's only a handful of episodes. I'm about 4 episodes in.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 14, 2022 15:07:13 GMT
I felt like just binging it. 😆 I guess I'm a Completist. But probably won't watch it again anytime soon.(Maybe the newer episodes just released.) Yes "Alleyn" is based on the books. But what I read is that they are a bit different from the source material. There's only a handful of episodes. I'm about 4 episodes in. Not related to Jonathan Creek, but I wanted to tell you that I watched the Patrick Malahide adaptation of Final Curtain—my favorite of Ngaio Marsh’s books—and enjoyed it, even though I found it kinda wonky as a mystery. It keeps most of Marsh’s clues in the book, but it underplays them, and Alleyn never explains how he reached most of his conclusions. Still, as a piece of television it’s good fun—in large part because I like Malahide as Alleyn and Belinda Lang as Troy. Malahide’s Alleyn is more sympathetic and fun than the book character, for one thing. I should watch the adaptation of Death at the Bar, another good Marsh book. I’m never quite sure what to make of Marsh. She was a good writer, and she had some good mystery plotting ideas ( Final Curtain prefigures a better-known Agatha Christie book), but her murderers are usually unsurprising, and she lacks the theatricality of Christie, John Dickson Carr, Christianna Brand, and Ellery Queen. And her investigation sections are often, though not always, dull. I’ve always thought she would have been better off writing something other than detective stories. By the way: Have you seen Death in Paradise? Not one I’d binge through either, but a lot of good episodes there, especially in the first two seasons. The last few seasons aren’t as good, unfortunately, but I keep watching in the hopes that it will go back to its original quality.
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Post by forca84 on Sept 14, 2022 16:52:19 GMT
Yes I've watched "Death in Paradise" a few times. I think it's on Britbox now which I don't have. And I think it's still played on PBS. But unfortunately I'm not able to record on my DVR.
But luckily there are some of these shows on streaming now.
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