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Post by Skaathar on Sept 15, 2022 1:37:45 GMT
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 15, 2022 3:51:42 GMT
We all know the MCU is part of Marvel, but that doesn’t mean it should be forced to follow the “rules” of the comics. Movies and comics are two different mediums. That’s all there is to it. Strawman argument. Nobody is asking for the movies to follow comic rules. What fans are asking for is for consistency and clarity within Marvel Entertainment, the parent company for BOTH comics and movies. Whether you agree with this or not is not relevant. You asked why people are upset about the 616 issue, I provided you with an answer. Just because you disagree with it doesn't invalidate the complaints. Personally, it's not a big deal for me, but I do understand where the complaints are coming from. The comics and the MCU are the 616 of their respective mediums. That’s all the clarity that’s needed. It’s similar to how the Arrowverse is supposedly “Earth-Prime,” despite that also being the DC comic book designation.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 15, 2022 4:16:56 GMT
Strawman argument. Nobody is asking for the movies to follow comic rules. What fans are asking for is for consistency and clarity within Marvel Entertainment, the parent company for BOTH comics and movies. Whether you agree with this or not is not relevant. You asked why people are upset about the 616 issue, I provided you with an answer. Just because you disagree with it doesn't invalidate the complaints. Personally, it's not a big deal for me, but I do understand where the complaints are coming from. The comics and the MCU are the 616 of their respective mediums. That’s all the clarity that’s needed. It’s similar to how the Arrowverse is supposedly “Earth-Prime,” despite that also being the DC comic book designation. Let's not make it seem like the CW Arrowverse is the model that the MCU should strive for. That's like telling a tiger to model itself after a housecat. The MCU should be better than that. Anyway, let me put it to you this way. There's a number of other forums out there who discuss everything Marvel-related. Back before, you could refer to "616 Thor" and everyone would know specifically which version of Thor you were talking about despite the numerous versions around. Now you don't know which "616 Thor" you're referring to anymore because the MCU has copied that number. It makes it confusing for a lot of people especially the more hardcore fans of both comics and movies. That's a fact. You may or may not agree with it. You may not be bothered by it. But insisting that it shouldn't be an issue for other fans is, forgive me for saying this but, quite arrogant of you. In the end, there is literally zero pros to Feige choosing to allow the MCU to refer to itself as 616. All it does is confuse fans. He could easily have chosen a hundred different unique numbers out there even if he didn't want to follow the Marvel database designation.
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Post by Cat on Sept 15, 2022 4:49:14 GMT
That seems silly. So it's a different universe because the actress playing the character isn't a literal duplicate from the comic? That's the hullabaloo? I can't get on board with that. That doesn't mean the MCU that we see isn't the 616 Earth that they called it. If that's what the movies are calling it then what's what it is.
Although for the record,
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 15, 2022 13:37:04 GMT
The comics and the MCU are the 616 of their respective mediums. That’s all the clarity that’s needed. It’s similar to how the Arrowverse is supposedly “Earth-Prime,” despite that also being the DC comic book designation. Let's not make it seem like the CW Arrowverse is the model that the MCU should strive for. That's like telling a tiger to model itself after a housecat. The MCU should be better than that. Anyway, let me put it to you this way. There's a number of other forums out there who discuss everything Marvel-related. Back before, you could refer to "616 Thor" and everyone would know specifically which version of Thor you were talking about despite the numerous versions around. Now you don't know which "616 Thor" you're referring to anymore because the MCU has copied that number. It makes it confusing for a lot of people especially the more hardcore fans of both comics and movies. That's a fact. You may or may not agree with it. You may not be bothered by it. But insisting that it shouldn't be an issue for other fans is, forgive me for saying this but, quite arrogant of you. In the end, there is literally zero pros to Feige choosing to allow the MCU to refer to itself as 616. All it does is confuse fans. He could easily have chosen a hundred different unique numbers out there even if he didn't want to follow the Marvel database designation. If fans can’t distinguish between the comics and the movies without using an arbitrary number, that’s on them. Just say “comic book Thor” or “MCU Thor.” That’s what most people do anyway.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 15, 2022 14:16:45 GMT
That seems silly. So it's a different universe because the actress playing the character isn't a literal duplicate from the comic? That's the hullabaloo? I can't get on board with that. That doesn't mean the MCU that we see isn't the 616 Earth that they called it. If that's what the movies are calling it then what's what it is.
Although for the record, It isn't just abou the actress being different in looks. They have different powersets, different origins, different personalities, etc. Heck, 616 Taskmaster is pretty much an entirely different character from MCU Taskmaster. It's creating confusion in some of the comicbook and movie forums I visit. It used to be that when somebody said "616 Thor", you knew exactly who they were referring to. Now it becomes confusing, because you don't know if they mean comicbook 616 Thor or MCU 616 Thor.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 15, 2022 14:18:14 GMT
Let's not make it seem like the CW Arrowverse is the model that the MCU should strive for. That's like telling a tiger to model itself after a housecat. The MCU should be better than that. Anyway, let me put it to you this way. There's a number of other forums out there who discuss everything Marvel-related. Back before, you could refer to "616 Thor" and everyone would know specifically which version of Thor you were talking about despite the numerous versions around. Now you don't know which "616 Thor" you're referring to anymore because the MCU has copied that number. It makes it confusing for a lot of people especially the more hardcore fans of both comics and movies. That's a fact. You may or may not agree with it. You may not be bothered by it. But insisting that it shouldn't be an issue for other fans is, forgive me for saying this but, quite arrogant of you. In the end, there is literally zero pros to Feige choosing to allow the MCU to refer to itself as 616. All it does is confuse fans. He could easily have chosen a hundred different unique numbers out there even if he didn't want to follow the Marvel database designation. If fans can’t distinguish between the comics and the movies without using an arbitrary number, that’s on them. Just say “comic book Thor” or “MCU Thor.” That’s what most people do anyway. But which comic book Thor are you referring to? Odinforce thor? Runeking Thor? Warrior Madness Thor? Ultimate Thor? Or 616 Thor? There are many versions of Thor in the comicbook, 616 is just one of them. But now mentioning 616 Thor becomes confusing because you might also be referring to MCU Thor. The MCU has the power to make a confusing decision like naming their universe 616. But they shouldn't be surprised if fans complain about it. I wouldn't expect the regulars on this board to care much about it because this is specifically movie forum. But it's kind of dismissive for us to gatekeep what should and shouldn't be complained about by other fans out there, especially those who like to discuss both movies and comics on a daily basis.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 15, 2022 14:34:43 GMT
If fans can’t distinguish between the comics and the movies without using an arbitrary number, that’s on them. Just say “comic book Thor” or “MCU Thor.” That’s what most people do anyway. But which comic book Thor are you referring to? Odinforce thor? Runeking Thor? Warrior Madness Thor? Ultimate Thor? Or 616 Thor? There are many versions of Thor in the comicbook. The MCU has the power to make a confusing decision like naming their universe 616. But they shouldn't be surprised if fans complain about it. I wouldn't expect the regulars on this board to care much about it because this is specifically movie forum. But it's kind of dismissive for us to gatekeep what should and shouldn't be complained about by other fans out there, especially those who like to discuss both movies and comics on a daily basis. When people say “comic book Thor,” it should be pretty easy to guess which one they’re talking about, unless they specify something like “Ultimate Thor.” Most people never referred to the MCU Thor as “199999 Thor” anyway, they referred to him as “MCU Thor.”
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 15, 2022 14:48:27 GMT
But which comic book Thor are you referring to? Odinforce thor? Runeking Thor? Warrior Madness Thor? Ultimate Thor? Or 616 Thor? There are many versions of Thor in the comicbook. The MCU has the power to make a confusing decision like naming their universe 616. But they shouldn't be surprised if fans complain about it. I wouldn't expect the regulars on this board to care much about it because this is specifically movie forum. But it's kind of dismissive for us to gatekeep what should and shouldn't be complained about by other fans out there, especially those who like to discuss both movies and comics on a daily basis. When people say “comic book Thor,” it should be pretty easy to guess which one they’re talking about, unless they specify something like “Ultimate Thor.” Most people never referred to the MCU Thor as “199999 Thor” anyway, they referred to him as “MCU Thor.” Do you actually read comicbooks? Have you ever been to comicbook forums before? Saying "comicbook Thor" is about as specific as saying I drive a Toyota. What kind of Toyota? Which comicbook Thor? And yes, nobody had issues referring to MCU Thor and nobody I know of ever used 19999 Thor. But 199999 isn't the issue, 616 is the issue. And just to be clear, I don't believe this is a big issue. Yes, people can get around it. What I'm arguing against is this idea of yours that it's a complete non-issue. That it's a completely invalid complaint. Yes, it's not a big problem but there's still a valid complaint to be made against it, however minor it is.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 15, 2022 15:00:26 GMT
When people say “comic book Thor,” it should be pretty easy to guess which one they’re talking about, unless they specify something like “Ultimate Thor.” Most people never referred to the MCU Thor as “199999 Thor” anyway, they referred to him as “MCU Thor.” Do you actually read comicbooks? Have you ever been to comicbook forums before? Saying "comicbook Thor" is about as specific as saying I drive a Toyota. What kind of Toyota? Which comicbook Thor? And yes, nobody had issues referring to MCU Thor and nobody I know of ever used 19999 Thor. But 199999 isn't the issue, 616 is the issue. And just to be clear, I don't believe this is a big issue. Yes, people can get around it. What I'm arguing against is this idea of yours that it's a complete non-issue. That it's a completely invalid complaint. Yes, it's not a big problem but there's still a valid complaint to be made against it, however minor it is. Are you serious right now? Yes, I’m aware that there are different iterations of Thor in the comics, but when people say “comic book Thor” it should be a pretty safe bet that they’re referring to the mainline comics. How is that a difficult concept to grasp? Also, FYI, in regards to your earlier claim about me supposedly asking why people are upset about the 616 thing, I did no such thing in the OP. The purpose of this topic is specifically so I could point out how silly this grievance is. I wasn’t asking why people are upset.
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Post by Cat on Sept 15, 2022 15:21:28 GMT
That seems silly. So it's a different universe because the actress playing the character isn't a literal duplicate from the comic? That's the hullabaloo? I can't get on board with that. That doesn't mean the MCU that we see isn't the 616 Earth that they called it. If that's what the movies are calling it then what's what it is.
Although for the record, It isn't just abou the actress being different in looks. They have different powersets, different origins, different personalities, etc. Heck, 616 Taskmaster is pretty much an entirely different character from MCU Taskmaster. It's creating confusion in some of the comicbook and movie forums I visit. It used to be that when somebody said "616 Thor", you knew exactly who they were referring to. Now it becomes confusing, because you don't know if they mean comicbook 616 Thor or MCU 616 Thor. If someone said MCU Thor I'd be certain they're talking about Chris Hemsworth as Thor, which as far as I know exists onscreen in a universe within the multiverse that's been dubbed 616. Nuances in the adaptation don't break that.
It's almost like saying, for example, that in the movie The Beach, the main character in the book was British, but because they swapped the character out for Leo Dicaprio, it's like a different universe. All they did was adjust the character.
In the context of the MCU, if someone said 616 Thor from the MCU, they'd be referring to the Thor we've seen onscreen all these years, as opposed to other Thors that may be out there in the multiverse. Any reference to an MCU character by that label means the MCU movies. Like if someone said MCU Reed Richards, they're not talking about the Reed Richards from the Jessica Alba movies.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 15, 2022 15:28:54 GMT
It isn't just abou the actress being different in looks. They have different powersets, different origins, different personalities, etc. Heck, 616 Taskmaster is pretty much an entirely different character from MCU Taskmaster. It's creating confusion in some of the comicbook and movie forums I visit. It used to be that when somebody said "616 Thor", you knew exactly who they were referring to. Now it becomes confusing, because you don't know if they mean comicbook 616 Thor or MCU 616 Thor. If someone said MCU Thor I'd be certain they're talking about Chris Hemsworth as Thor, which as far as I know exists onscreen in a universe within the multiverse that's been dubbed 616. Nuances in the adaptation don't break that.
It's almost like saying, for example, that in the movie The Beach, the main character in the book was British, but because they swapped the character out for Leo Dicaprio, it's like a different universe. All they did was adjust the character.
In the context of the MCU, if someone said 616 Thor from the MCU, they'd be referring to the Thor we've seen onscreen all these years, as opposed to other Thors that may be out there in the multiverse. Any reference to an MCU character by that label means the MCU movies. Like if someone said MCU Reed Richards, they're not talking about the Reed Richards from the Jessica Alba movies.
I think you misunderstood me. Nobody is going to be confused when they say MCU Thor, because there's only one MCU Thor. What's going to confuse people is when you say 616 Thor. Because it used to be that 616 pertained to only one version of Thor, whereas now it pertains to two.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 15, 2022 15:36:33 GMT
I mean there's people out there who are upset about a black Mermaid.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 15, 2022 15:39:44 GMT
Do you actually read comicbooks? Have you ever been to comicbook forums before? Saying "comicbook Thor" is about as specific as saying I drive a Toyota. What kind of Toyota? Which comicbook Thor? And yes, nobody had issues referring to MCU Thor and nobody I know of ever used 19999 Thor. But 199999 isn't the issue, 616 is the issue. And just to be clear, I don't believe this is a big issue. Yes, people can get around it. What I'm arguing against is this idea of yours that it's a complete non-issue. That it's a completely invalid complaint. Yes, it's not a big problem but there's still a valid complaint to be made against it, however minor it is. Are you serious right now? Yes, I’m aware that there are different iterations of Thor in the comics, but when people say “comic book Thor” it should be a pretty safe bet that they’re referring to the mainline comics. How is that a difficult concept to grasp? Also, FYI, in regards to your earlier claim about me supposedly asking why people are upset about the 616 thing, I did no such thing in the OP. The purpose of this topic is specifically so I could point out how silly this grievance is. I wasn’t asking why people are upset. Like I said, you haven't been to comicbook forums before have you? Saying "comicbook Thor" will get you flooded with replies of "which version of Thor are you referring to"? And if you don't specify which version, then the discussion devolves into people using different versions for their arguments. In your OP you claimed you didn't understand why "this" was such a hard concept for other fans to grasp. I then elaborated what the actual issue was, as I have discussed this specific issue with other fans who do have problems with it. I gave you that explanation, which you are refusing to even be remotely open to. I have no problems with you saying you don't have an issue with the conflicting multiverses. What I have a problem with is with you insisting there isn't an issue at all, when there very clearly is. Is it a big issue? No, I don’t think so. That doesn't mean there isn't one.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 15, 2022 16:38:24 GMT
Are you serious right now? Yes, I’m aware that there are different iterations of Thor in the comics, but when people say “comic book Thor” it should be a pretty safe bet that they’re referring to the mainline comics. How is that a difficult concept to grasp? Also, FYI, in regards to your earlier claim about me supposedly asking why people are upset about the 616 thing, I did no such thing in the OP. The purpose of this topic is specifically so I could point out how silly this grievance is. I wasn’t asking why people are upset. Like I said, you haven't been to comicbook forums before have you? Saying "comicbook Thor" will get you flooded with replies of "which version of Thor are you referring to"? And if you don't specify which version, then the discussion devolves into people using different versions for their arguments. In your OP you claimed you didn't understand why "this" was such a hard concept for other fans to grasp. I then elaborated what the actual issue was, as I have discussed this specific issue with other fans who do have problems with it. I gave you that explanation, which you are refusing to even be remotely open to. I have no problems with you saying you don't have an issue with the conflicting multiverses. What I have a problem with is with you insisting there isn't an issue at all, when there very clearly is. Is it a big issue? No, I don’t think so. That doesn't mean there isn't one. Comic book forums more often than not are flooded by silly “who would win in a fight” debates. People on those forums will debate over the most inane and pedantic things no matter what.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 15, 2022 17:43:44 GMT
Like I said, you haven't been to comicbook forums before have you? Saying "comicbook Thor" will get you flooded with replies of "which version of Thor are you referring to"? And if you don't specify which version, then the discussion devolves into people using different versions for their arguments. In your OP you claimed you didn't understand why "this" was such a hard concept for other fans to grasp. I then elaborated what the actual issue was, as I have discussed this specific issue with other fans who do have problems with it. I gave you that explanation, which you are refusing to even be remotely open to. I have no problems with you saying you don't have an issue with the conflicting multiverses. What I have a problem with is with you insisting there isn't an issue at all, when there very clearly is. Is it a big issue? No, I don’t think so. That doesn't mean there isn't one. Comic book forums more often than not are flooded by silly “who would win in a fight” debates. People on those forums will debate over the most inane and pedantic things no matter what. Dude, we discuss such inane and pedantic things on this forum as "Why does Hawkeye not have a helmet" or "Who's hotter between Wonder Woman and Black Widow". I definitely don't think we're in a position to judge.
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