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Post by mikef6 on Oct 31, 2022 22:13:08 GMT
Powerful anti-LGBTQ Texas pastor Robert Jeffress said that the U.S. was “founded as a Christian Nation” and that conservative Christians should “impose their values on society.”Jeffress, who is the senior pastor at the 14,000-member First Baptist Church in Dallas, was on Real America’s Voice talking about rising Christian nationalist sentiment in the U.S. “We always put our love for God above everything, even allegiance to our country,” he said about conservative Christians. “But that’s not what they’re really talking about. Listen carefully. They say they are opposed to people who say America was founded as a Christian nation, Americans who believe not only in the spiritual heritage of our nation but believe that we ought to use elections to help return our country to its Christian foundation.” “If that’s Christian nationalism, count me in,” the pastor laughed. “Because that’s what we have to do. And what’s so hypocritical about this, Tim, is the left don’t mind at all imposing their values on our country through the election process. They don’t mind forcing their pro-abortion, pro-transgender, pro-open borders policy upon our nation. But they object when conservative Christians try to impose their values on society at large. It’s complete hypocrisy.” [But “the left” doesn't want to “impose” those values. They want to increase rights of Americans to everyone. Christian Nationalism want to seriously limit basic civil rights. He honestly doesn’t see the difference there.]Jeffress has had access to some of the most powerful Republicans in the country. He was a member of Donald Trump’s Evangelical Executive Advisory Board and had Mike Pence speaking in his church back when he was vice president. In 2017, he spoke at a private inaugural service for the Trump and Pence families. He also has a long history of anti-LGBTQ sentiment. ![]()  |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 1, 2022 14:45:34 GMT
Powerful anti-LGBTQ Texas pastor Robert Jeffress said that the U.S. was “founded as a Christian Nation” and that conservative Christians should “impose their values on society.”Jeffress, who is the senior pastor at the 14,000-member First Baptist Church in Dallas, was on Real America’s Voice talking about rising Christian nationalist sentiment in the U.S. “We always put our love for God above everything, even allegiance to our country,” he said about conservative Christians. “But that’s not what they’re really talking about. Listen carefully. They say they are opposed to people who say America was founded as a Christian nation, Americans who believe not only in the spiritual heritage of our nation but believe that we ought to use elections to help return our country to its Christian foundation.” “If that’s Christian nationalism, count me in,” the pastor laughed. “Because that’s what we have to do. And what’s so hypocritical about this, Tim, is the left don’t mind at all imposing their values on our country through the election process. They don’t mind forcing their pro-abortion, pro-transgender, pro-open borders policy upon our nation. But they object when conservative Christians try to impose their values on society at large. It’s complete hypocrisy.” [But “the left” doesn't want to “impose” those values. They want to increase rights of Americans to everyone. Christian Nationalism want to seriously limit basic civil rights. He honestly doesn’t see the difference there.]Jeffress has had access to some of the most powerful Republicans in the country. He was a member of Donald Trump’s Evangelical Executive Advisory Board and had Mike Pence speaking in his church back when he was vice president. In 2017, he spoke at a private inaugural service for the Trump and Pence families. He also has a long history of anti-LGBTQ sentiment. ![]() The section I enlarged is the point here; the Left supports the freedom to choose on personal issues, and supports this as a basic civil right, which is what this country was founded on. Which illustrates my frequently repeated opinion that religion is about control, money and power, not "what Jesus would do".
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Post by drystyx on Nov 2, 2022 0:36:31 GMT
I don't think he's a very nice guy.
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Post by politicidal on Nov 2, 2022 18:42:18 GMT
Yeah Jeffress is a real wackadoodle. Didn't know he was still around.
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Post by permutojoe on Nov 11, 2022 17:45:53 GMT
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Post by amyghost on Nov 14, 2022 20:02:48 GMT
Xtian once again demonstrates that Xtians are, by and large, not terribly well-educated folk. The sad/bad/irritating-as-hell part of this is that warning Americans about the real aims of these sorts is to end up simply preaching to the choir (pardon the pun). Their all-too-many supporters of course actively favor the theological totalitarian state these goons are itching to implement, and the rest of Middle America has been too well-indoctrinated into accepting the 'right' religion has in attempting to thrust itself onto secular law and society, to do much more than murmur some slightly dismayed disapproval--when it does even that. And certainly forget the mainstream media offering up any criticism of this crap without blunting it behind the 'objectivity' rubric, or the ever more craven fear of offending the christers and religoids. It's becoming more and more difficult, indeed almost impossible, to protect civil rights and liberties against these absolutist nuts; and I'm damned if I see any trend in this nation, social or political, that's doing anything meaningful by way of really mustering forces to curtail it.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Nov 15, 2022 12:21:49 GMT
... “We always put our love for God above everything, even allegiance to our country,” he said about conservative Christians. --- Effectively, if you put God above country, you are putting more faith in pastors than you do in politicians. And since I am a pastor, you should do as I say if it conflicts with what politicians say. And don't forget to tithe.
Religion isn't about belief; it's about power.
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Post by amyghost on Nov 15, 2022 12:55:24 GMT
... “We always put our love for God above everything, even allegiance to our country,” he said about conservative Christians. --- Effectively, if you put God above country, you are putting more faith in pastors than you do in politicians. And since I am a pastor, you should do as I say if it conflicts with what politicians say. And don't forget to tithe.
Religion isn't about belief; it's about power.
The real and utter bottom line on religion, much as that fact always has been, and always will be obfuscated by its practitioners
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Nov 16, 2022 13:33:05 GMT
Religion isn't about belief; it's about power. I don't think they're actually mutually exclusive. I think most people who use religion to pursue and justify their power don't do so as a purely cynical exercise. It's more a case of them latching onto the tenets that support their worldview and, via cognitive dissonance, ignoring or reinterpreting those aspects that would challenge their power. So they use religions for the sake of their own power, but they also believe in the religions because they feel they justify their power. I think though it's only fair to also consider the other side of the equation - those whose religious beliefs have informed their challenge of power dynamics and standing up for the less fortunate. Think Oscar Romero, Martin Luther King, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Gustavo Gutierrez, Malcolm X etc.
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Post by rizdek on Nov 26, 2022 0:07:14 GMT
"They don’t mind forcing their pro-abortion, pro-transgender, pro-open borders policy upon our nation. But they object when conservative Christians try to impose their values on society at large. "
That's what both sides do....that's why there ARE two sides.
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The Lost One
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@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Nov 26, 2022 8:49:42 GMT
"They don’t mind forcing their pro-abortion, pro-transgender, pro-open borders policy upon our nation. But they object when conservative Christians try to impose their values on society at large. "
That's what both sides do....that's why there ARE two sides.
I don't think they are both forceful in the same way though: - if you push for legalised abortion, it doesn't force anyone to have an abortion who doesn't want one. If you push for criminalising abortion, it forces people who don't want to carry the child to term to do so - if you push for transgender rights, you don't force anyone to transition. If you push against them, you prevent people who want to transition from doing so. |
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Post by mikef6 on Nov 27, 2022 4:57:38 GMT
"They don’t mind forcing their pro-abortion, pro-transgender, pro-open borders policy upon our nation. But they object when conservative Christians try to impose their values on society at large. "
That's what both sides do....that's why there ARE two sides.
I don't think they are both forceful in the same way though: - if you push for legalised abortion, it doesn't force anyone to have an abortion who doesn't want one. If you push for criminalising abortion, it forces people who don't want to carry the child to term to do so - if you push for transgender rights, you don't force anyone to transition. If you push against them, you prevent people who want to transition from doing so. Correct. And if you will forgive me for quoting myself from the O.P.: But “the left” doesn't want to “impose” those values. They want to increase rights of Americans to everyone. Christian Nationalism want to seriously limit basic civil rights. [Jeffress] honestly doesn’t see the difference there.
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Post by rizdek on Nov 27, 2022 11:22:15 GMT
"They don’t mind forcing their pro-abortion, pro-transgender, pro-open borders policy upon our nation. But they object when conservative Christians try to impose their values on society at large. "
That's what both sides do....that's why there ARE two sides.
I don't think they are both forceful in the same way though: - if you push for legalised abortion, it doesn't force anyone to have an abortion who doesn't want one. If you push for criminalising abortion, it forces people who don't want to carry the child to term to do so - if you push for transgender rights, you don't force anyone to transition. If you push against them, you prevent people who want to transition from doing so. But they would claim that when they are against abortion, they are defending a segment of society which has no voice...the unborn. So they would claim 'choice' is depriving some people (yes, they consider the fetus a person) their right to life. And as for transgender, I might be wrong, but I don't think they're saying they are against someone being transgender...only that they don't want them making others agree that they are. IOW, it's not limiting the person's private choice/opinion of themselves...how could they do that? No even need know if someone considers themselves this or that gender. They just don't want a someone who's built like a guy competing against women. And they don't want to feel like THEY have to adjust how they think because, in their words, they are being forced to call a dude a girl and vise versa. And it seems they are opposed to gender surgery/procedures on under-aged because they believe these people aren't old enough to be responsible for that kind of decision that can have permanent effects.
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Post by mikef6 on Nov 27, 2022 15:49:41 GMT
I don't think they are both forceful in the same way though: - if you push for legalised abortion, it doesn't force anyone to have an abortion who doesn't want one. If you push for criminalising abortion, it forces people who don't want to carry the child to term to do so - if you push for transgender rights, you don't force anyone to transition. If you push against them, you prevent people who want to transition from doing so. But they would claim that when they are against abortion, they are defending a segment of society which has no voice...the unborn. So they would claim 'choice' is depriving some people (yes, they consider the fetus a person) their right to life. And as for transgender, I might be wrong, but I don't think they're saying they are against someone being transgender...only that they don't want them making others agree that they are. IOW, it's not limiting the person's private choice/opinion of themselves...how could they do that? No even need know if someone considers themselves this or that gender. They just don't want a someone who's built like a guy competing against women. And they don't want to feel like THEY have to adjust how they think because, in their words, they are being forced to call a dude a girl and vise versa. And it seems they are opposed to gender surgery/procedures on under-aged because they believe these people aren't old enough to be responsible for that kind of decision that can have permanent effects. Sorry Mr. R but that is a total whitewash. Anti-abortion is not an advocate for the unborn. They hate women and want to punish them for being sexual. It takes two to get pregnant, but the man involved is left completely out of the equation. When the father starts being held to financial support with laws that have teeth in them, then I will have some grudging respect for anti-abortionists. But it will never happen. The Forced Birth crowd needs to control women. The father doesn’t come into it. He can keep screwing around all he wants. The idea of a woman having sex without wanting to have a child just makes her a slut, a whore. It drives them crazy. It is not the woman who needs the abortion who is evil. It is, instead, the religiously and politically Forced Birth conservatives who would regulate the most intimate parts of a woman's life. If bigoted right-wingers believe that trans people born one gender cannot authentically become the other, they may shoot off their mouths all they want among family and friends. But when they start regulating a person’s medical or identity needs then they need to be stopped. As for not wanting to call a trans female a “woman,” they should avoid all situations where they may be called upon to do so. But to respect others is just kind. However, “kind” is not a word that extremist bigots understand at all.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Nov 27, 2022 17:46:09 GMT
rizdekI see where you're coming from re transgender though I would add that a lot of them do try to stop even adults transitioning either directly (calling for medical professionals not to offer transition as an option) or indirectly (taking away support networks to dissuade people from transitioning). Re abortion, I disagree though. Being pro- choice doesn't mean you think the unborn don't have a right to life, it means you leave it up to the individual mother who doesn't want to carry the baby to term whether she thinks that right supersedes her right to control her own body. If she thinks she has a moral duty to carry it to term, then that's absolutely fine. If she doesn't and has an abortion, then that's fine too. It's the pro-life side that forces people to do things against their will, by asking for a law that says Right A must trump Right B. Now, a pro-life person could argue that it's right to make such an imposition in order to defend the unborn. But it can't argue that the pro-choice side forces morality on people in the same way the pro-life side does.
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Post by rizdek on Nov 27, 2022 21:26:46 GMT
But they would claim that when they are against abortion, they are defending a segment of society which has no voice...the unborn. So they would claim 'choice' is depriving some people (yes, they consider the fetus a person) their right to life. And as for transgender, I might be wrong, but I don't think they're saying they are against someone being transgender...only that they don't want them making others agree that they are. IOW, it's not limiting the person's private choice/opinion of themselves...how could they do that? No even need know if someone considers themselves this or that gender. They just don't want a someone who's built like a guy competing against women. And they don't want to feel like THEY have to adjust how they think because, in their words, they are being forced to call a dude a girl and vise versa. And it seems they are opposed to gender surgery/procedures on under-aged because they believe these people aren't old enough to be responsible for that kind of decision that can have permanent effects. Sorry Mr. R but that is a total whitewash. Anti-abortion is not an advocate for the unborn. They hate women and want to punish them for being sexual. It takes two to get pregnant, but the man involved is left completely out of the equation. When the father starts being held to financial support with laws that have teeth in them, then I will have some grudging respect for anti-abortionists. But it will never happen. The Forced Birth crowd needs to control women. The father doesn’t come into it. He can keep screwing around all he wants. The idea of a woman having sex without wanting to have a child just makes her a slut, a whore. It drives them crazy. It is not the woman who needs the abortion who is evil. It is, instead, the religiously and politically Forced Birth conservatives who would regulate the most intimate parts of a woman's life. If bigoted right-wingers believe that trans people born one gender cannot authentically become the other, they may shoot off their mouths all they want among family and friends. But when they start regulating a person’s medical or identity needs then they need to be stopped. As for not wanting to call a trans female a “woman,” they should avoid all situations where they may be called upon to do so. But to respect others is just kind. However, “kind” is not a word that extremist bigots understand at all. Who is the 'they' of which you speak? Best I can tell, there are more registered women voters than men, nationwide. link So do you imagine there is a swath of women out there who don't actually care about the fetus, but masochistically hate women and want to punish them for their careless sex? And since many men vote Democratic or at least don't vote pro-life...like me...they probably aren't included in the 'they.' So, unless it's due to women who hate women, why do ANY politicians who are opposed to choice ever get elected...if it's all about controlling women?
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