Post by dividavi on Dec 19, 2022 20:38:45 GMT
In another thread, the following statements were made. My responses follow in this font.
Well, the area around Nuremberg is referred to as Franconia, after the Germanic Frankish people who renamed Gaul as France. Charlemagne, a descendant of Frankish speakers, built himself a royal court at "Franconovurd", the "ford of the Franks", and in the summer of 794 held a church council there (in today's Frankfurt), convened by the grace of God, authority of the pope, and command of Charlemagne. The point is that there's no real problem with reusing a name as the Franks did but the Saxons didn't.
By the way, those of you with European appearance would be called farang in Thailand, a word derived from Frank and transmitted to Asia via the Persians.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang
The word farang is from Persian word farang (فرنگ) or farangī (فرنگی), refers to Franks, the major Germanic tribe ruling Western Europe. Frangistan (Persian: فرنگستان) was a term used by Muslims and Persians in particular, during the Middle Ages and later periods, to refer to Western or Latin Europe. According to Rashid od-Din Fazl ol-Lāh-e Hamadāni, Arabic word Afranj comes from the Persian farang.[1] This seems unlikely though, considering that the Arabic 'al-Faranj' or 'Afranj' has been attested since the 9th century, in the works of al-Jahiz and Ya'qubi, a century before 'Farang' was first used in an anonymous late 10th century Persian geography book,[2] suggesting that the Persian 'Farang' is a loan from Arabic. By the 11th cetury, Arabic texts were increasingly using the term 'Faransa' or 'al-Faransiyah', already attested in the work of Said al-Andalusi in the mid 11th century.
In the languages of Ethiopia and Eritrea, faranj or ferenj in most contexts still means distant foreigner (generally used to describe Europeans or European descendant/white people), in certain contexts within the Ethiopian and Eritrean diaspora, the term faranj or ferenj has taken on a slightly alternative meaning that closely resembles the term Westerner or Westernized people even though it still mostly applies to European descendants/White People, it can be applied to African Americans and other Westernized People of Color. During the Muslim Mughal Empire when the Europeans arrived in South Asia, the Persian word Farang was used to refer to foreigners of European descent. The words also added to local languages such as Hindi as firangi (Devanāgarī: फिरंगी) and Bengali as firingi (ফিরিঙ্গি). The word was pronounced paranki (പറങ്കി) in Malayalam, parangiar in Tamil, entered Khmer as barang, and Malay as ferenggi[citation needed]. From there the term spread into China as folangji (佛郎機), which was used to refer to the Portuguese and their breech-loading swivel guns when they first arrived in China.
The Scots might have obtained knowledge of bagpipes from/through the Romans, or I suppose they could have invented them independently of any outside culture.
Here's what wikipedia tells us:
{The evidence for bagpipes prior to the 13th century AD is still uncertain, but several textual and visual clues have been suggested. The Oxford History of Music posits that a sculpture of bagpipes has been found on a Hittite slab at Euyuk in Anatolia, dated to 1000 BC. Another interpretation of this sculpture suggests that it instead depicts a pan flute played along with a friction drum.
Several authors identify the ancient Greek askaulos (ἀσκός askos – wine-skin, αὐλός aulos – reed pipe) with the bagpipe. In the 2nd century AD, Suetonius described the Roman emperor Nero as a player of the tibia utricularis. Dio Chrysostom wrote in the 1st century of a contemporary sovereign (possibly Nero) who could play a pipe (tibia, Roman reedpipes similar to Greek and Etruscan instruments) with his mouth as well as by tucking a bladder beneath his armpit. Vereno suggests that such instruments, rather than being seen as an independent class, were understood as variants on mouth-blown instruments that used a bag as an alternative blowing aid and that it was not until drones were added in the European Medieval era that bagpipes were seen as a distinct class.}
As a rule, peoples are called after the places from which they hail, rather than the other way around. Danish invaders did not rename the land to Danelaw - areas under Danish law were referred to as such, but it was never the actual name. As for the Saxons, there was already a "Saxland" - Saxony (or "Old Saxony" as we call it today).
By the way, those of you with European appearance would be called farang in Thailand, a word derived from Frank and transmitted to Asia via the Persians.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang
The word farang is from Persian word farang (فرنگ) or farangī (فرنگی), refers to Franks, the major Germanic tribe ruling Western Europe. Frangistan (Persian: فرنگستان) was a term used by Muslims and Persians in particular, during the Middle Ages and later periods, to refer to Western or Latin Europe. According to Rashid od-Din Fazl ol-Lāh-e Hamadāni, Arabic word Afranj comes from the Persian farang.[1] This seems unlikely though, considering that the Arabic 'al-Faranj' or 'Afranj' has been attested since the 9th century, in the works of al-Jahiz and Ya'qubi, a century before 'Farang' was first used in an anonymous late 10th century Persian geography book,[2] suggesting that the Persian 'Farang' is a loan from Arabic. By the 11th cetury, Arabic texts were increasingly using the term 'Faransa' or 'al-Faransiyah', already attested in the work of Said al-Andalusi in the mid 11th century.
In the languages of Ethiopia and Eritrea, faranj or ferenj in most contexts still means distant foreigner (generally used to describe Europeans or European descendant/white people), in certain contexts within the Ethiopian and Eritrean diaspora, the term faranj or ferenj has taken on a slightly alternative meaning that closely resembles the term Westerner or Westernized people even though it still mostly applies to European descendants/White People, it can be applied to African Americans and other Westernized People of Color. During the Muslim Mughal Empire when the Europeans arrived in South Asia, the Persian word Farang was used to refer to foreigners of European descent. The words also added to local languages such as Hindi as firangi (Devanāgarī: फिरंगी) and Bengali as firingi (ফিরিঙ্গি). The word was pronounced paranki (പറങ്കി) in Malayalam, parangiar in Tamil, entered Khmer as barang, and Malay as ferenggi[citation needed]. From there the term spread into China as folangji (佛郎機), which was used to refer to the Portuguese and their breech-loading swivel guns when they first arrived in China.
Saxons can't complain, though. They got the saxophone named after them.
And if the Romans hadn't built Hadrian's wall, the Scotsmen would have been playing saxophones instead of bagpipes.
And if the Romans hadn't built Hadrian's wall, the Scotsmen would have been playing saxophones instead of bagpipes.
Here's what wikipedia tells us:
{The evidence for bagpipes prior to the 13th century AD is still uncertain, but several textual and visual clues have been suggested. The Oxford History of Music posits that a sculpture of bagpipes has been found on a Hittite slab at Euyuk in Anatolia, dated to 1000 BC. Another interpretation of this sculpture suggests that it instead depicts a pan flute played along with a friction drum.
Several authors identify the ancient Greek askaulos (ἀσκός askos – wine-skin, αὐλός aulos – reed pipe) with the bagpipe. In the 2nd century AD, Suetonius described the Roman emperor Nero as a player of the tibia utricularis. Dio Chrysostom wrote in the 1st century of a contemporary sovereign (possibly Nero) who could play a pipe (tibia, Roman reedpipes similar to Greek and Etruscan instruments) with his mouth as well as by tucking a bladder beneath his armpit. Vereno suggests that such instruments, rather than being seen as an independent class, were understood as variants on mouth-blown instruments that used a bag as an alternative blowing aid and that it was not until drones were added in the European Medieval era that bagpipes were seen as a distinct class.}
