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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2023 1:03:05 GMT
Oversimplified, the Scientific Method is a way to create theories based on hypotheses that we can't refute. I don’t think that's true. A scientific hypothesis that was irrefutable would be quite useless. What would be the point of testing such a hypothesis? It's why they're called theories. It's also why they're subject to change. If a hypothesis is refuted, it's scrapped. It's not promoted to theory because it's proven. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 1:28:47 GMT
Because there is no way to prove God is of the natural world of all the “elements” that make up the entirety of the universe. Since there is no evidence, there is nothing to quantify. Nothing to quantify, then no hard research science can happen. Philosophy takes over at this point, it’s intellectual, but it’s not science and cannot prove God is a part of the natural world. The conundrum for theists is they think science should be able to prove God exists, and if it doesn’t, then either there is something wrong with the science or scientists are lying because they do not want to obey God. One problem is the lack of knowledge of what science is and how it works. Another is harboring a profound prejudice against atheists or spiritual non-conformists. Funny how when we see something that appears to violate natural law, we embrace the possibility that we're wrong about the law. But when we see something that appears to match what most would call God, we reject it on the basis that it doesn't square with natural law. Are you not aware the science doesn't prove anything? Oversimplified, the Scientific Method is a way to create theories based on hypotheses that we can't refute. In other words, if it can't be disproven, it remains a valid possibility. I’m saying there’s no way to test for God’s existence like we can the existence of black holes. What about God can you measure? We can measure the universe, why not God? Yes, it does. Not everything can be measure perfectly because of too many variables. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2023 1:36:22 GMT
Are you saying God is supernatural because there's no evidence of its existence? Funny how when we see something that appears to violate natural law, we embrace the possibility that we're wrong about the law. But when we see something that appears to match what most would call God, we reject it on the basis that it doesn't square with natural law. Are you not aware the science doesn't prove anything? Oversimplified, the Scientific Method is a way to create theories based on hypotheses that we can't refute. In other words, if it can't be disproven, it remains a valid possibility. I’m saying there’s no way to test for God’s existence like we can the existence of black holes. What about God can you measure? We can measure the universe, why not God? Yes, it does. Not everything can be measure perfectly because of too many variables. I don't agree that our inability to measure something means it doesn't exist, or that an effect has no cause simply because we can't define it. No, it doesn't. Google is your friend here. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 1:41:57 GMT
I’m saying there’s no way to test for God’s existence like we can the existence of black holes. What about God can you measure? We can measure the universe, why not God? Yes, it does. Not everything can be measure perfectly because of too many variables. I don't agree that our inability to measure something means it doesn't exist, or that an effect has no cause simply because we can't define it. No, it doesn't. Google is your friend here. It means you don’t get to blame science because you fail to make your case. Tools and methods designed to measure the natural world don’t work on a supernatural plane. And Google is an algorithm. |
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Post by mystery on Jan 6, 2023 1:46:12 GMT
Personally, I've never thought there was any clash between science and spirituality. I'm quite content viewing the metaphysical as "meta" "physical," literally meaning outside of or transcending the physical. Science studies the physical characteristics of the Universe, and spirituality explores the metaphysical. No conflict.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2023 1:50:32 GMT
I don't agree that our inability to measure something means it doesn't exist, or that an effect has no cause simply because we can't define it. No, it doesn't. Google is your friend here. It means you don’t get to blame science because you fail to make your case. Tools and methods designed to measure the natural world don’t work on a supernatural plane. And Google is an algorithm. My case is that science doesn't prove things, and if I haven't already made it, you can make it for me with minimal research. You don't have to use Google. It was only a suggestion. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 2:15:50 GMT
It means you don’t get to blame science because you fail to make your case. Tools and methods designed to measure the natural world don’t work on a supernatural plane. And Google is an algorithm. and if I haven't already made it, you can make it for me with minimal research. You don't have to use Google. It was only a suggestion. Yes, it does. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2023 2:25:35 GMT
My case is that science doesn't prove things, and if I haven't already made it, you can make it for me with minimal research. You don't have to use Google. It was only a suggestion. Yes, it does. Solid argument you got there. Ask a scientist. They can be found in the phone book (aka Google). |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 2:32:31 GMT
Solid argument you got there. Ask a scientist. They can be found in the phone book (aka Google). To say science doesn’t prove anything is saying science can’t prove anything. So, how come science works so much better than magic? God is a magical being. You got magic to prove him with. Science can’t prove dragons didn’t once fly, but it can prove all the big dragon-like fossils found so far are not dragons. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2023 2:39:15 GMT
Solid argument you got there. Ask a scientist. They can be found in the phone book (aka Google). To say science doesn’t prove anything is saying science can’t prove anything. So, how come science works so much better than not science? To say that is to say it can, but it doesn't. It doesn't even claim to. What is "not science"? |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 2:44:48 GMT
To say science doesn’t prove anything is saying science can’t prove anything. So, how come science works so much better than not science? To say that is to say it can, but it doesn't. It doesn't even claim to. What is "not science"? I changed it to magic. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2023 3:07:31 GMT
To say that is to say it can, but it doesn't. It doesn't even claim to. What is "not science"? I changed it to magic. Ok then... what is magic? |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 3:20:58 GMT
Ok then... what is magic? Invoking and appealing to the living spirits of animals, inanimate objects, and imaginary beings. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2023 3:34:11 GMT
Ok then... what is magic? Invoking and appealing to the living spirits of animals, inanimate objects, and imaginary beings. I don't know what "living spirits" are, what any of that has to do with natural law, or how whatever you're saying means God is supernatural. What I do know, however, is that scientific theories are never said to be proven by those who know what science is and how it works. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 6, 2023 3:40:22 GMT
Ok then... what is magic? Invoking and appealing to the living spirits of animals, inanimate objects, and imaginary beings. What if they're not imaginary beings, but real beings that are invisible? Is that still magic, or is it something else? |
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Post by Sarge on Jan 6, 2023 3:43:13 GMT
So you didn't watch it either, probably. Pass. Here's the clash... religion is irrational, science is rational. Once you accept the irrational as rational you are intellectually compromised and can be made to believe any nonsense. Yes I did watch it. That's how I know it was under 4 minutes. Compares science taking things apart to religion putting things back together, quoting the late Rabbi Jonathan Sacks. I don't know that name, but he sounds intellectually compromised. Everything you have is because of science. Science produces works. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 3:48:24 GMT
Invoking and appealing to the living spirits of animals, inanimate objects, and imaginary beings. or how whatever you're saying means God is supernatural. What I do know, however, is that scientific theories are never said to be proven by those who know what science is and how it works. They have nothing to do with natural law. Neither does God. They are supernatural. That’s why there is a separate word. It’s similar to physical vs metaphysical. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2023 3:54:38 GMT
I don't know what "living spirits" are, what any of that has to do with natural law, or how whatever you're saying means God is supernatural. What I do know, however, is that scientific theories are never said to be proven by those who know what science is and how it works. They have nothing to do with natural law. Neither does God. They are supernatural. That’s why there is a separate word. It’s similar to physical vs metaphysical. What do you think it means to be supernatural? |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 3:57:26 GMT
They have nothing to do with natural law. Neither does God. They are supernatural. That’s why there is a separate word. It’s similar to physical vs metaphysical. What do you think it means to be supernatural? Literally beyond nature. Science only deals with nature. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 6, 2023 4:01:29 GMT
Personally, I've never thought there was any clash between science and spirituality. I'm quite content viewing the metaphysical as "meta" "physical," literally meaning outside of or transcending the physical. Science studies the physical characteristics of the Universe, and spirituality explores the metaphysical. No conflict. The conflict happens when science disproves the holders of truth. |
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