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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 3:57:10 GMT
It's "woke", by definition it's against prejudice and injustice.
Fine.
But they weren't, they never were.
Newsflash - being against prejudice and injustice isn't "woke", it is the morally right thing to be opposed to. Then you disagree with the originator of the characters and initial stories and overseer of later, and iconic, stories. You may be of the belief that Marvel in the 1960's to, say, when Lee retired, were "woke" and didn't aspire to be pure escapism, but that was not Lee's intention and vision of the company. It is being woke, that's why anytime you see a woman or nonwhite talk back to a white male it's called being a "Woke Movie".
Marvel was always telling socially progressive stories, by the modern "definition" of "Woke", that makes them woke stories. Despite "Woke" now being a Boogeyman word
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 3:58:05 GMT
You can't deny that the reaction to the very existence of the Sequels was negative from the start. Trying to justify your bigotry doesn't make you look like any less of a fool. The reaction the "fans" had the second they saw Rey and Finn in the first teasers told me everything.
Of course, they're the same people who tried to get Jar Jar's actor to kill himself. That should've been the first sign.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 14, 2023 5:06:32 GMT
Newsflash - being against prejudice and injustice isn't "woke", it is the morally right thing to be opposed to. Then you disagree with the originator of the characters and initial stories and overseer of later, and iconic, stories. You may be of the belief that Marvel in the 1960's to, say, when Lee retired, were "woke" and didn't aspire to be pure escapism, but that was not Lee's intention and vision of the company. It is being woke, that's why anytime you see a woman or nonwhite talk back to a white male it's called being a "Woke Movie".
Marvel was always telling socially progressive stories, by the modern "definition" of "Woke", that makes them woke stories. Despite "Woke" now being a Boogeyman word
No, "woke" is progressive ideology taken to extreme lengths to justify and to satisfy the worldview of select people, even if it means to bend the rules to receive acknowledgment and special treatment from society and paint all opposition as repulsive. Normal and healthy progressivism is to be against issues which are in relation to the established ideals of a society - no mistreatment, no prejudice, to be open for debate with opposition who are willing to have conversation, without the expectation of being rewarded for success beyond what they are supporting. Stan Lee would not agree.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 14, 2023 5:09:15 GMT
Trying to justify your bigotry doesn't make you look like any less of a fool. The reaction the "fans" had the second they saw Rey and Finn in the first teasers told me everything.
Of course, they're the same people who tried to get Jar Jar's actor to kill himself. That should've been the first sign.
As stated before - trying to justify your bigotry doesn't make you look like any less of a fool. You have equated me to such people, and have acted like a bully, you lost all respect I had for you.
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Post by blockbusted on Feb 14, 2023 7:44:12 GMT
The reaction the "fans" had the second they saw Rey and Finn in the first teasers told me everything.
Of course, they're the same people who tried to get Jar Jar's actor to kill himself. That should've been the first sign.
As stated before - trying to justify your bigotry doesn't make you look like any less of a fool. You have equated me to such people, and have acted like a bully, you lost all respect I had for you. I won’t argue much about what’s going on between you and him since I don’t feel like I should simply barge in, but he’s not entirely incorrect about Finn. I remember some people on IMDb making racist attacks towards ‘The Force Awakens’ having a black stormtrooper when they’re clones of a white man, even though: 1. Stormtroopers are not clones. 2. The host of Clone Troopers wasn’t even white to begin with.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 14, 2023 8:14:17 GMT
As stated before - trying to justify your bigotry doesn't make you look like any less of a fool. You have equated me to such people, and have acted like a bully, you lost all respect I had for you. I won’t argue much about what’s going on between you and him since I don’t feel like I should simply barge in, but he’s not entirely incorrect about Finn. I remember some people on IMDb making racist attacks towards ‘The Force Awakens’ having a black stormtrooper when they’re clones of a white man, even though: 1. Stormtroopers are not clones. 2. The host of Clone Troopers wasn’t even white to begin with. I didn't say he was wrong in regard to that; I am saying it is wrong to assume the worst and automatically single out every single person who disagrees with him on the quality of media, which he has done often in this topic of discussion and elsewhere as of late. It's childish, ridiculous, and he is acting like a jerk and a bully.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 13:40:20 GMT
It is being woke, that's why anytime you see a woman or nonwhite talk back to a white male it's called being a "Woke Movie".
Marvel was always telling socially progressive stories, by the modern "definition" of "Woke", that makes them woke stories. Despite "Woke" now being a Boogeyman word
No, "woke" is progressive ideology taken to extreme lengths to justify and to satisfy the worldview of select people, even if it means to bend the rules to receive acknowledgment and special treatment from society and paint all opposition as repulsive. Normal and healthy progressivism is to be against issues which are in relation to the established ideals of a society - no mistreatment, no prejudice, to be open for debate with opposition who are willing to have conversation, without the expectation of being rewarded for success beyond what they are supporting. Stan Lee would not agree. And yet anytime we see a woman who isn't a useless shrieking damsel or a nonwhite in a leading role it's always automatically labeled "Woke". Which means the word now encompasses anything remotely progressive.
He can disagree, his works say otherwise.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 13:41:54 GMT
The reaction the "fans" had the second they saw Rey and Finn in the first teasers told me everything.
Of course, they're the same people who tried to get Jar Jar's actor to kill himself. That should've been the first sign.
As stated before - trying to justify your bigotry doesn't make you look like any less of a fool. You have equated me to such people, and have acted like a bully, you lost all respect I had for you. Justifying an attitude towards contemptible people who seek to ruin the experience for everyone else isn't wrong. The only ones who need to justify themselves are the ones who have done these appalling things like trying to make Jar-Jar's actor kill himself.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 13:43:46 GMT
I won’t argue much about what’s going on between you and him since I don’t feel like I should simply barge in, but he’s not entirely incorrect about Finn. I remember some people on IMDb making racist attacks towards ‘The Force Awakens’ having a black stormtrooper when they’re clones of a white man, even though: 1. Stormtroopers are not clones. 2. The host of Clone Troopers wasn’t even white to begin with. I didn't say he was wrong in regard to that; I am saying it is wrong to assume the worst and automatically single out every single person who disagrees with him on the quality of media, which he has done often in this topic of discussion and elsewhere as of late. It's childish, ridiculous, and he is acting like a jerk and a bully. The last 7 years have given me little reason to assume there's any reason that the "fans" have learned anything. Do you think they learned anything?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2023 17:58:13 GMT
As stated before - trying to justify your bigotry doesn't make you look like any less of a fool. You have equated me to such people, and have acted like a bully, you lost all respect I had for you. I won’t argue much about what’s going on between you and him since I don’t feel like I should simply barge in, but he’s not entirely incorrect about Finn. I remember some people on IMDb making racist attacks towards ‘The Force Awakens’ having a black stormtrooper when they’re clones of a white man, even though: 1. Stormtroopers are not clones. 2. The host of Clone Troopers wasn’t even white to begin with. There was definitely some horrible racism and sexism when those trailers came out. But this goofball (Sam) is conflating every single Star Wars fan with these trolls and then using it in arguments against people who never said such things. Surely you don’t agree with that stupidity?
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 18:18:07 GMT
I won’t argue much about what’s going on between you and him since I don’t feel like I should simply barge in, but he’s not entirely incorrect about Finn. I remember some people on IMDb making racist attacks towards ‘The Force Awakens’ having a black stormtrooper when they’re clones of a white man, even though: 1. Stormtroopers are not clones. 2. The host of Clone Troopers wasn’t even white to begin with. There was definitely some horrible racism and sexism when those trailers came out. But this goofball (Sam) is conflating every single Star Wars fan with these trolls and then using it in arguments against people who never said such things. Surely you don’t agree with that stupidity? Star Wars "fans" haven't done anything to show they've moved beyond that line of thinking. If they don't denounce those people, they're with them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2023 18:38:10 GMT
There was definitely some horrible racism and sexism when those trailers came out. But this goofball (Sam) is conflating every single Star Wars fan with these trolls and then using it in arguments against people who never said such things. Surely you don’t agree with that stupidity? Star Wars "fans" haven't done anything to show they've moved beyond that line of thinking. If they don't denounce those people, they're with them. Nice try, Sammy. I’m not spending Valentines with you.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 14, 2023 20:37:26 GMT
No, "woke" is progressive ideology taken to extreme lengths to justify and to satisfy the worldview of select people, even if it means to bend the rules to receive acknowledgment and special treatment from society and paint all opposition as repulsive. Normal and healthy progressivism is to be against issues which are in relation to the established ideals of a society - no mistreatment, no prejudice, to be open for debate with opposition who are willing to have conversation, without the expectation of being rewarded for success beyond what they are supporting. Stan Lee would not agree. And yet anytime we see a woman who isn't a useless shrieking damsel or a nonwhite in a leading role it's always automatically labeled "Woke". Which means the word now encompasses anything remotely progressive.
He can disagree, his works say otherwise.
Alita, Wonder Woman, Jessica Jones, Atomic Blonde, Hannah, House of the Dragon, Everyone Everywhere at Once, Anna, Red Sparrow, Rogue One, Bird Box, A quiet place 2, Creed 2, Without Remorse, Luke Cage, Tenet, Aquaman... these are just a few examples of shows that weren't automatically called woke. You really need to stop making things up.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 21:18:12 GMT
And yet anytime we see a woman who isn't a useless shrieking damsel or a nonwhite in a leading role it's always automatically labeled "Woke". Which means the word now encompasses anything remotely progressive.
He can disagree, his works say otherwise.
Alita, Wonder Woman, Jessica Jones, Atomic Blonde, Hannah, House of the Dragon, Everyone Everywhere at Once, Anna, Red Sparrow, Rogue One, Bird Box, A quiet place 2, Creed 2, Without Remorse, Luke Cage, Tenet, Aquaman, Interceptor... these are just a few examples of shows that weren't automatically called woke. You really need to stop making things up. Alita and WW: That disgusting "Born Sexy Yesterday" cliche.
Jessica Jones: A total incompetent who is overshadowed by the male villain at every turn.
Hanna (no "H"): Total pawn of her adopted dad
House of the Dragon: Male dominated
Atomic Blonde: Charlize Theron protected the movie. Put ANYONE else in the lead and it's hated.
Everyone Everywhere At Once: It IS Woke, it's just too popular for the usual suspects to criticize it because of Michelle Yeok
Red Sparrow: A Failure
Rogue One: Jyn was overshadowed by the male Rebel guy, and she died in the end and was never mentioned again.
Bird Box: Movie failed
A Quiet Place 2: Blunt needed John Krasinski for everything
Luke Cage: Fell apart halfway through it's first season, never recovered.
Creed 2: They went for Stallone, not Jordan
Without Remorse: Called a Banal movie by critics and viewers
Tenet: The Black Lead DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A NAME
Aquaman: He was seen as such a joke until now that no one cared if the movie was any good
Interceptor: This film is utterly ridiculed.
So yeah.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 14, 2023 21:32:11 GMT
Alita, Wonder Woman, Jessica Jones, Atomic Blonde, Hannah, House of the Dragon, Everyone Everywhere at Once, Anna, Red Sparrow, Rogue One, Bird Box, A quiet place 2, Creed 2, Without Remorse, Luke Cage, Tenet, Aquaman, Interceptor... these are just a few examples of shows that weren't automatically called woke. You really need to stop making things up. Alita and WW: That disgusting "Born Sexy Yesterday" cliche.
Jessica Jones: A total incompetent who is overshadowed by the male villain at every turn.
Hanna (no "H"): Total pawn of her adopted dad
House of the Dragon: Male dominated
Atomic Blonde: Charlize Theron protected the movie. Put ANYONE else in the lead and it's hated.
Everyone Everywhere At Once: It IS Woke, it's just too popular for the usual suspects to criticize it because of Michelle Yeok
Red Sparrow: A Failure
Rogue One: Jyn was overshadowed by the male Rebel guy, and she died in the end and was never mentioned again.
Bird Box: Movie failed
A Quiet Place 2: Blunt needed John Krasinski for everything
Luke Cage: Fell apart halfway through it's first season, never recovered.
Creed 2: They went for Stallone, not Jordan
Without Remorse: Called a Banal movie by critics and viewers
Tenet: The Black Lead DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A NAME
Aquaman: He was seen as such a joke until now that no one cared if the movie was any good
Interceptor: This film is utterly ridiculed.
So yeah.
Excuses, excuses. None of what you said changes the fact that none of these shows were called woke despite the fact that they had female or POC leads, proving just how false your premise is. P.S. - I take back Interceptor. This was actually called woke by some.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 21:38:38 GMT
Alita and WW: That disgusting "Born Sexy Yesterday" cliche.
Jessica Jones: A total incompetent who is overshadowed by the male villain at every turn.
Hanna (no "H"): Total pawn of her adopted dad
House of the Dragon: Male dominated
Atomic Blonde: Charlize Theron protected the movie. Put ANYONE else in the lead and it's hated.
Everyone Everywhere At Once: It IS Woke, it's just too popular for the usual suspects to criticize it because of Michelle Yeok
Red Sparrow: A Failure
Rogue One: Jyn was overshadowed by the male Rebel guy, and she died in the end and was never mentioned again.
Bird Box: Movie failed
A Quiet Place 2: Blunt needed John Krasinski for everything
Luke Cage: Fell apart halfway through it's first season, never recovered.
Creed 2: They went for Stallone, not Jordan
Without Remorse: Called a Banal movie by critics and viewers
Tenet: The Black Lead DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A NAME
Aquaman: He was seen as such a joke until now that no one cared if the movie was any good
Interceptor: This film is utterly ridiculed.
So yeah.
Excuses, excuses. None of what you said changes the fact that none of these shows were called woke despite the fact that they had female or POC leads, proving just how false your premise is. P.S. - I take back Interceptor. This was actually called woke by some. Because there were things crippling the POC/Female leads so no one could feel threatened enough by them to call them woke.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 14, 2023 21:42:32 GMT
Excuses, excuses. None of what you said changes the fact that none of these shows were called woke despite the fact that they had female or POC leads, proving just how false your premise is. P.S. - I take back Interceptor. This was actually called woke by some. Because there were things crippling the POC/Female leads so no one could feel threatened enough by them to call them woke. In other words, the leads weren't perfect beings. They had flaws, they struggled at times, and they needed to overcome various trials and tribulations. Got it.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 21:47:08 GMT
Because there were things crippling the POC/Female leads so no one could feel threatened enough by them to call them woke. In other words, the leads weren't perfect beings. They had flaws, they struggled at times, and they needed to overcome various trials and tribulations. Got it. Actually, it's because the women/nonwhite leads weren't actually the leads and/or they were so pathetic that they needed their villains/co-stars to be the real stars and had their leading roles stolen from them.
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Post by Skaathar on Feb 14, 2023 21:52:56 GMT
In other words, the leads weren't perfect beings. They had flaws, they struggled at times, and they needed to overcome various trials and tribulations. Got it. Actually, it's because the women/nonwhite leads weren't actually the leads and/or they were so pathetic that they needed their villains/co-stars to be the real stars and had their leading roles stolen from them. So you're saying Gal Gadot wasn't the lead in Wonder Woman? Charlize Theron was so pathetic in Atomic Blonde? Someone else stole the lead from Alita?
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 14, 2023 22:18:27 GMT
Actually, it's because the women/nonwhite leads weren't actually the leads and/or they were so pathetic that they needed their villains/co-stars to be the real stars and had their leading roles stolen from them. So you're saying Gal Gadot wasn't the lead in Wonder Woman? Charlize Theron was so pathetic in Atomic Blonde? Someone else stole the lead from Alita? No, she wasn't. Due to being "Born Sexy Yesterday", Chris Pine was more of a real lead than her.
Yeah, her character was a real mess.
Alita was also "Born Sexy Yesterday", the lead role was stolen by her boyfriend and Christoph Waltz
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