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Post by heeeeey on Feb 12, 2023 16:27:03 GMT
Just because you don't accept evidence or see it with your limitations, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I do believe, however, that it's quite possible that there are some humans who don't have a soul. You may very well be one of them. Wait I thought you believed in consciousness being a seperate entity from the brain (aka a "soul")? Now you're telling us some people don't have a soul? So the conscioussness does actually stem from the brain but not others? Is that what you're getting at? I think they might be similar to AI. |
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Post by faustus5 on Feb 12, 2023 19:49:40 GMT
If you are defining consciousness as language, all animals have language. "Language" is a precisely defined concept with an entire science behind it, and no animal other than humans has language. This is not a statement of opinion, it is an uncontroversial statement of fact.
You are continuing your unfortunate and lazy habit of extending the meanings of words to the point where they refer to so many things that they lose all meaning. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2023 19:53:57 GMT
If you are defining consciousness as language, all animals have language. "Language" is a precisely defined concept with an entire science behind it, and no animal other than humans has language. This is not a statement of opinion, it is an uncontroversial statement of fact.
You are continuing your unfortunate and lazy habit of extending the meanings of words to the point where they refer to so many things that they lose all meaning. You need to give me your narrow definition of 'language'? I knew a border collie dog that understands English, Scots Gallic, and sign language. |
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Post by faustus5 on Feb 12, 2023 20:34:36 GMT
"Language" is a precisely defined concept with an entire science behind it, and no animal other than humans has language. This is not a statement of opinion, it is an uncontroversial statement of fact.
You are continuing your unfortunate and lazy habit of extending the meanings of words to the point where they refer to so many things that they lose all meaning. You need to give me your narrow definition of 'language'? I knew a border collie dog that understands English, Scots Gallic, and sign language. Language is a heavily structured system of symbols used for communication and abstract thinking that relies on grammatical rules whose basis evolved in humans and only humans. Your border collie does not "understand" any words in any language at the level that even a human child does, because this kind of understanding requires such an innate grammatical structure and knowing how thousands of words relate to one another in a complex network of meaning.
How much your dog possesses an extremely rudimentary sense of what simple words and commands mean, and to what degree they're just good at fooling you by behaving in ways which solicit some kind of praise in a very mechanically Skinnerian way, would be very hard to determine.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 12, 2023 20:46:39 GMT
If you are defining consciousness as language, all animals have language. "Language" is a precisely defined concept with an entire science behind it, and no animal other than humans has language. This is not a statement of opinion, it is an uncontroversial statement of fact.
You are continuing your unfortunate and lazy habit of extending the meanings of words to the point where they refer to so many things that they lose all meaning. "You are continuing your unfortunate and lazy habit of extending the meanings of words to the point where they refer to so many things that they lose all meaning." I think there's actually a formal term for that (motte and bailey fallacy?) |
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Post by faustus5 on Feb 12, 2023 21:52:20 GMT
"Language" is a precisely defined concept with an entire science behind it, and no animal other than humans has language. This is not a statement of opinion, it is an uncontroversial statement of fact.
You are continuing your unfortunate and lazy habit of extending the meanings of words to the point where they refer to so many things that they lose all meaning. "You are continuing your unfortunate and lazy habit of extending the meanings of words to the point where they refer to so many things that they lose all meaning." I think there's actually a formal term for that (motte and bailey fallacy?) I'd never heard of that before, thanks! It is a least adjacent to what he keeps doing. |
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Post by Catman on Feb 12, 2023 23:03:29 GMT
Language is not the same thing as communication.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 13, 2023 0:01:27 GMT
Language is not the same thing as communication. Folks use language to communicate, cats use meows. Interesting trivia, did you know adult cats only meow at humans? Kittens will meow at their mother, but then stop doing that when they get older. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 13, 2023 0:56:12 GMT
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Post by drystyx on Feb 13, 2023 20:40:14 GMT
Fish probably don't have souls or spirits.
Those tests only acknowledge what we see in others, and that's a ridiculous method for deciding if something has a soul.
It's by that method that people can easily sanction atrocities against human beings. And it's not only inhumane, but incorrect. When is the last time that someone was correct in telling you what you were thinking? If you're like me, it's almost never happened. They stand where the light is and ask you a question while the Sun or light is blinding you, or while they're blowing cigarette smoke at you, and determine your grimace means something besides a reaction to the real world.
Even a computer can be designed to respond to stimulus.
Many animals only function for the queen ant or queen bee. If there is a "soul" or "meter reader", it's most likely just the queen ant, because the others will just continue on their functional use. If you step on an ant, it's most likely like clipping a fingernail off a queen ant. She knows it's been done, but it doesn't affect her.
That's an opinion, but it's the most valid opinion, scientifically speaking.
Now, it could be that there is a "queen human" who makes us suffer for her, and that's why all the dorks of mankind like to agree on weird stuff, like voting for Trump or Hillary for president. In 2016, we had undeniable proof that there was a supernatural force at work when the two least competent looking characters in the U.S. (aside from felons and people with mental illness) were the finalists for the presidential election. Yet, despite this fact, there are people who live in denial of reality. They wouldn't think a casino was cheating them even if the dealer got blackjack sixty times in a row to their "15".
There probably is a "queen" or "king" human somewhere, who lost contact with most of us, because we have souls and spirits. In fact, many people who believe in a god are actually worshiping this being, if it exists. Many who praise God are actually praising the prince of this world, Satan.
Mammals appear to be the ones with souls or spirits, whichever you call the meter reader, but we can't be sure. We're convinced that once they become pets or become part of human lives, they acquire meter readers and get out of touch with the "queen dog" or "queen cat". That may be true, or may be false. If it is false, then it proves that something supernatural makes it appear to be this way. If it is true, then it proves that something supernatural makes this the rule.
But there is no "test" that can prove it either way, by defintion, because the "meter reader" can't be tested in the flesh. If that were so, we'd have to acknowledge that even computers have souls and spirits. Since humans make and design and program computers, that would make humans into some sort of demi gods. People like to believe they are demi gods or gods, so people want to believe everything has a soul.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2023 0:15:57 GMT
No. Nothing has a soul. That idea was abandoned by scientists and philosophers many, many decades ago. It is a dead model of consciousness. It probably relies a lot on definition of what the soul is, just to be clear I dont think anything can be supernatural, you might like this article though www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog/biocentrism/201112/does-the-soul-exist-evidence-says-yesobviously it is an opinion piece, still it has some interesting ideas |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2023 0:25:08 GMT
"Language" is a precisely defined concept with an entire science behind it, and no animal other than humans has language. This is not a statement of opinion, it is an uncontroversial statement of fact.
You are continuing your unfortunate and lazy habit of extending the meanings of words to the point where they refer to so many things that they lose all meaning. Dolphins and Whales which are mammals, can communicate through sonar which is a form of telepathic language. Holy slithering duck shit, you are batshit insane. |
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Post by faustus5 on Feb 21, 2023 11:51:53 GMT
obviously it is an opinion piece, still it has some interesting ideas The article very much reminded me of my college freshman self and the kinds of things that drove me to make consciousness studies the focus of my major in philosophy. Those "interesting ideas" have been New Age talking points since the 1960's, particularly surrounding myths about quantum physics and its (long debunked) connections to consciousness. I guess I'll never understand why some people equate "spirituality" with certain metaphysical theories rather than psychology and a lived life. |
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Post by general313 on Feb 21, 2023 17:46:37 GMT
Holy slithering duck shit, you are batshit insane. Please elaborate why you are triggered by my comment? Your statement does betray an appalling lack of understanding of science. Read it over again and think about it. Perhaps you might see the error. |
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Post by drystyx on Feb 21, 2023 21:32:22 GMT
No. Nothing has a soul. That idea was abandoned by scientists and philosophers many, many decades ago. It is a dead model of consciousness. I should have known you would come in here with your whiny, incoherent, babbling nonsense. You sound like the whiny boy telling the bully that it doesn't hurt, when the bully knows full well that you do hurt, because you do have a soul. Your whining only makes you more prone to be a victim of bullies. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2023 23:23:53 GMT
obviously it is an opinion piece, still it has some interesting ideas The article very much reminded me of my college freshman self and the kinds of things that drove me to make consciousness studies the focus of my major in philosophy. Those "interesting ideas" have been New Age talking points since the 1960's, particularly surrounding myths about quantum physics and its (long debunked) connections to consciousness. I guess I'll never understand why some people equate "spirituality" with certain metaphysical theories rather than psychology and a lived life. Yeah I mean I am probably more woo than you (I think that is the term we use), I tend to read the metaphysics and the stuff I am reading is really just another way of articulating the physical reality, as I say I dont believe in the supernatural |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2023 23:24:47 GMT
Holy slithering duck shit, you are batshit insane. Please elaborate why you are triggered by my comment? Sure, but first can you tell me how dolphins communicate, ie the means in which they do it, and then define telepathy? |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 22, 2023 0:45:16 GMT
Sure, but first can you tell me how dolphins communicate, ie the means in which they do it, and then define telepathy? Do your own research. You have the internet. Well done, the last bastion of someone who knows they are wrong, sweet. I am not going to research, I am going to tell you what I KNOW Dolphins communicate through a series of clicks and whistles, ie using sound travelling through the atmossphere, telepathy is direct mind to mind communication and not real. The reason I asked you for evidence was to see if you could back up your utter tripe. You can't because wait for it . . . it's utter tripe. Go read a book, learn what time is, learn what telepathy is and then write from a place of knowledge, not arrogant stupidity. |
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Post by general313 on Feb 22, 2023 0:50:22 GMT
Do your own research. You have the internet. Well done, the last bastion of someone who knows they are wrong, sweet. I am not going to research, I am going to tell you what I KNOW Dolphins communicate through a series of clicks and whistles, ie using sound travelling through the atmossphere, telepathy is direct mind to mind communication and not real. The reason I asked you for evidence was to see if you could back up your utter tripe. You can't because wait for it . . . it's utter tripe. Go read a book, learn what time is, learn what telepathy is and then write from a place of knowledge, not arrogant stupidity. Sadly that's never going to happen. ToastedBrain is quite happy to wallow in his willful ignorance. Reminds me of another ignorant poster that occasionally posts here with nonsense confusing energy with magic. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 22, 2023 0:51:37 GMT
Well done, the last bastion of someone who knows they are wrong, sweet. I am not going to research, I am going to tell you what I KNOW Dolphins communicate through a series of clicks and whistles, ie using sound travelling through the atmossphere, telepathy is direct mind to mind communication and not real. The reason I asked you for evidence was to see if you could back up your utter tripe. You can't because wait for it . . . it's utter tripe. Go read a book, learn what time is, learn what telepathy is and then write from a place of knowledge, not arrogant stupidity. Sadly that's never going to happen. ToastedBrain is quite happy to wallow in his willful ignorance. Reminds me of another ignorant poster that occasionally posts here with nonsense confusing energy with magic. It's intense how married to ignorance he is, I mean seriously. |
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