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Post by Nora on Jun 3, 2017 19:56:15 GMT
so…. I saw Wonderwoman today. I enjoyed it. I didnt love it, but I certainly enjoyed it and see the appeal. Gald Gadot and Chris Pine do have a good chemistry though, and she did well in the role. Now my question for you is: did you know it was directed by a female going in? If you didnt know, did you "notice" it? If so, how/when? Also, what do you think this movie did for women/feminism overall? Empowered women or made them actually look weaker (more emotional, moved mostly by feelings/on impulse) or neither? also, how bummed were you when ROBIN WRIGHT DIES 10 minutes in the movie. Fuck, she was half the reason I went to see this! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 1:52:17 GMT
I did love it.
No, I didn't know it was directed by a woman until the end credits. I thought it was directed very well.
Did having a female director help it be a "feminist movie"? I dunno. What I liked about it was that it didn't resort to making all of the male characters idiots or evil purely so Wonder Woman looks better in comparison, the way the Ghostbusters remake did. Pine's Steve Trevor is a tough, brave, smart, resourceful, heroic guy in his own right - and still understands that when it comes to fighting, he's better off playing a supporting role to the lady who can knock buildings over and throw tanks around if she wants to. And the movie doesn't make some huge issue of this, there's no scene where he makes a little speech about how letting her lead in battle is the right thing to do - he simply does it, because why wouldn't you once you saw what she was capable of?
Nor did it fall into the trap of making Wonder Woman perfect in every way. She's completely ignorant of the realities of the modern (1914) world, and comes across as rather naive for about half the movie. She has an innocence that's rather endearing, and it makes you care about her and invest in the character enough to worry about how big the kick in the ass will be when she catches up to the world as it is.
So to my mind, the movie gets the depiction of a strong woman absolutely right. Is that because a woman directed it? I dunno. Maybe - a man directed Ghostbusters, after all. But I'd think there are male directors who could do the same thing. Joss Whedon probably could.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 1:56:40 GMT
I didn't see any feminist agenda at all. If anything, this couldn't be a better example of the objectification of women that feminists have been bitching about for years, lol. Superman and Batman get a full body suit, and WW gets a glorified stripper costume?  That said, I really enjoyed it. I don't go to movies to be empowered as a woman, I go to be entertained. Gal Gadot looked gorgeous but also kicked ass, so I was happy. |
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Post by brownstones on Jun 4, 2017 2:00:10 GMT
did I know? yeah. did I notice? not really? but the romantic moments tugged on my heart strings quite a bit, but i'm not certain if that has anything to do with Patty directing/a female directing.....so I want to say no, but again i'm not certain. well, the film really doesn't push that b.s. feminist movement where it's essentially an attempt to showcase superiority over guys, but it's definitely more in line with what it was initially created to be, which was for women to finally be equal to men; I mean, she needed Steve and his little ragtag team, as much as they needed her. also yeah.......... I was a bit bummed that Robin Wright was offed.......she was quite a rockstar. |
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Post by faustus5 on Jun 4, 2017 12:19:10 GMT
I don't understand the title of the OP considering that historically, Wonder Woman was intentionally, consciously created by a feminist to be a feminist icon.
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Post by politicidal on Jun 4, 2017 13:55:23 GMT
I think it was a long time coming as far as female superhero movies go. As others said, Wonder Woman was already intended as a feminist character along with her fellow Amazons.
However I think the movie did a good job balancing that with demonstrating that they're not infallible. They can still be killed and make mistakes. I thought it clever to incorporate a certain origin story for Diana as the basis for her arc where her sunny idealism is confronted by the harsh reality of the human world but she matures from it.
It's not perfect but it's far more nuanced than previous female driven superhero movies like Electra or Catwoman.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 16:32:57 GMT
I thought it clever to incorporate a certain origin story for Diana as the basis for her arc where her sunny idealism is confronted by the harsh reality of the human world but she matures from it. It's certainly a nice change from Rey, for instance, who is Practically Perfect in Every Way from the minute we meet her. |
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Post by politicidal on Jun 4, 2017 18:34:05 GMT
I thought it clever to incorporate a certain origin story for Diana as the basis for her arc where her sunny idealism is confronted by the harsh reality of the human world but she matures from it. It's certainly a nice change from Rey, for instance, who is Practically Perfect in Every Way from the minute we meet her. I honestly didn't mind Rey compared to other people. Even with her who's certainly less flawed than Diana by comparison, she wasn't even interested in the Jedi tradition when first offered. |
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Post by nemesis617 on Jun 4, 2017 21:43:31 GMT
I think it was a long time coming as far as female superhero movies go. As others said, Wonder Woman was already intended as a feminist character along with her fellow Amazons. However I think the movie did a good job balancing that with demonstrating that they're not infallible. They can still be killed and make mistakes. I thought it clever to incorporate a certain origin story for Diana as the basis for her arc where her sunny idealism is confronted by the harsh reality of the human world but she matures from it. It's not perfect but it's far more nuanced than previous female driven superhero movies like Electra or Catwoman. Politicidal made some good points. Couldn't of said it better. |
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Post by Nora on Jun 5, 2017 4:44:10 GMT
I did love it. No, I didn't know it was directed by a woman until the end credits. I thought it was directed very well. Did having a female director help it be a "feminist movie"? I dunno. What I liked about it was that it didn't resort to making all of the male characters idiots or evil purely so Wonder Woman looks better in comparison, the way the Ghostbusters remake did. Pine's Steve Trevor is a tough, brave, smart, resourceful, heroic guy in his own right - and still understands that when it comes to fighting, he's better off playing a supporting role to the lady who can knock buildings over and throw tanks around if she wants to. And the movie doesn't make some huge issue of this, there's no scene where he makes a little speech about how letting her lead in battle is the right thing to do - he simply does it, because why wouldn't you once you saw what she was capable of? Nor did it fall into the trap of making Wonder Woman perfect in every way. She's completely ignorant of the realities of the modern (1914) world, and comes across as rather naive for about half the movie. She has an innocence that's rather endearing, and it makes you care about her and invest in the character enough to worry about how big the kick in the ass will be when she catches up to the world as it is. So to my mind, the movie gets the depiction of a strong woman absolutely right. Is that because a woman directed it? I dunno. Maybe - a man directed Ghostbusters, after all. But I'd think there are male directors who could do the same thing. Joss Whedon probably could. Same with me, I didnt know till the end. And I have to say I was impressed. Not that many action / super hero movies are directed by women, its good to see. I think that on its own is empowering to women, to see another female director succeed with a blockbuster and especially in such male-driven genre as super hero action movies. I agree that the lack of " a little speech" about letting her lead in battle was a good touch. Good and powerful moment that didnt need additional words. |
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Post by Nora on Jun 5, 2017 4:53:31 GMT
I didn't see any feminist agenda at all. If anything, this couldn't be a better example of the objectification of women that feminists have been bitching about for years, lol. Superman and Batman get a full body suit, and WW gets a glorified stripper costume? That said, I really enjoyed it. I don't go to movies to be empowered as a woman, I go to be entertained. Gal Gadot looked gorgeous but also kicked ass, so I was happy. interesting that you say that - I think they actually tried to de-objectivize her a lot. She was showing no cleavage, didn't wear a traditional waist clincher, and her crotch was covered (as opposed to Lynda Carters and others) and her body was also not the center of the cameras attention so much, especially in the battle scenes, you saw more focus on her as a whole figure rather than details of her bust/crotch area when she was flying/kicking/turning. your comparison with guy superhero costume - come on, their tight pants revealing their bulge, thats not the same thing? To me it is. And I dont mind one bit, on women or men? I actually think more people should walk around half naked or in tights in real life  |
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Post by Nora on Jun 5, 2017 4:57:15 GMT
did I know? yeah. did I notice? not really? but the romantic moments tugged on my heart strings quite a bit, but i'm not certain if that has anything to do with Patty directing/a female directing.....so I want to say no, but again i'm not certain. well, the film really doesn't push that b.s. feminist movement where it's essentially an attempt to showcase superiority over guys, but it's definitely more in line with what it was initially created to be, which was for women to finally be equal to men; I mean, she needed Steve and his little ragtag team, as much as they needed her. also yeah.......... I was a bit bummed that Robin Wright was offed.......she was quite a rockstar. I was thinking about the romantic moments being somewhat softer and more tender and wondering if it was the female direction or if I was just projecting. Who knows. Thats why I asked people here. I agree that it didnt feel like it pushed any "b.s. feminist movement" certainly not visibly. But one point I thought was interestin g - when Chris Pine first comes to the island, did you notice that not only he tries to "lead" in the battle against the germans when they get there as well, and commands the wonder woman (hide here, wait, go etc) but that she OBEYS. To me that was the only odd thing. She was such a strong-willed and skilled character, and she lets the first guy that she meets tell her what to do? : ) But then again, it could have been her being overwhelmed by so many new people and new guns etc. So I give it a pass PS - no matter what you write I tend to read your text with a smile because of your avatar. I love Brita. Good choice! |
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Post by Nora on Jun 5, 2017 5:02:04 GMT
I don't understand the title of the OP considering that historically, Wonder Woman was intentionally, consciously created by a feminist to be a feminist icon. I dont dispute that in the title (or my post), do I? I was just asking if other people saw this particular movie as doing anything for feminism, or pushing feminist agenda, or the opposite (and as you can see on here, opinions about that vary). To me it was good to see a strong female lead, sure, and especially good to see a good superhero movie directed by a woman, but my all time favourite female driven action movie is still Haywire where the heroine also didn't portray too many traits typically assigned to women (openly emotional, naive, easily manipulated, overly talkative and easy to befriend/bed). |
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Post by Nora on Jun 5, 2017 5:03:35 GMT
I think it was a long time coming as far as female superhero movies go. As others said, Wonder Woman was already intended as a feminist character along with her fellow Amazons. However I think the movie did a good job balancing that with demonstrating that they're not infallible. They can still be killed and make mistakes. I thought it clever to incorporate a certain origin story for Diana as the basis for her arc where her sunny idealism is confronted by the harsh reality of the human world but she matures from it. It's not perfect but it's far more nuanced than previous female driven superhero movies like Electra or Catwoman. I agree with the origin story working well. I read in some reviews that people didnt like it and felt like it didnt have to be there- to me it explained/ justified a lot of her later naivity and the way she approached the world and in a way it made it more nuanced, as you say. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 6, 2017 22:35:52 GMT
As far as feminism goes, I think the character of Diana (and Gal Gadot's interpretation of her) properly shows what a strong woman should/could be without sacrificing her femininity. Diana is strong, proud, dedicated, confident, can kick ass... yet she still gets googly eyed when she sees a baby. She still falls in love and she's still sensitive to the emotions of people around her. She's not afraid to show tenderness or caring or her soft side.
I think this is important because it shows that a woman can still be a strong woman without having to sacrifice traditional feminine qualities. A lot of other strong female characters in movies are far too cold and testosterone-infused. Like the only way to show that they're badass characters are to completely throw away qualities traditionally associated with women and act like men instead.
In this way, I did feel that the director was a woman. Because it felt like it was directed by someone who was a woman and who knew how women react to things, rather than being directed by a man getting a woman to act like what he thinks makes a strong woman *cough*ghostbusters*cough*.
Anyway, bottom line, this is a good step forward for feminism in movies. Because it allowed a female character to be strong naturally without trying to push it down our throats.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 2:23:54 GMT
I didn't see any feminist agenda at all. If anything, this couldn't be a better example of the objectification of women that feminists have been bitching about for years, lol. Superman and Batman get a full body suit, and WW gets a glorified stripper costume?  That said, I really enjoyed it. I don't go to movies to be empowered as a woman, I go to be entertained. Gal Gadot looked gorgeous but also kicked ass, so I was happy. interesting that you say that - I think they actually tried to de-objectivize her a lot. She was showing no cleavage, didn't wear a traditional waist clincher, and her crotch was covered (as opposed to Lynda Carters and others) and her body was also not the center of the cameras attention so much, especially in the battle scenes, you saw more focus on her as a whole figure rather than details of her bust/crotch area when she was flying/kicking/turning. your comparison with guy superhero costume - come on, their tight pants revealing their bulge, thats not the same thing? To me it is. And I dont mind one bit, on women or men? I actually think more people should walk around half naked or in tights in real life Lest we ever forget   |
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Post by woozlewuzzle on Jun 9, 2017 6:18:02 GMT
There are still crybaby SJWs and feminists finding idiotic things to cry and whine over as far as Wonder Woman goes.
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Post by merh on Jun 10, 2017 1:51:12 GMT
Of course I knew.
Thor fangirl, remember?
And now they hire Whedon for Justice League after they rejected his Wonder Woman movie a decade ago.
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Post by lukelovesfilm34 on Jun 10, 2017 9:15:33 GMT
Frankly, the fact that so many of these feminists would rather see other women doing stuff that men do every day... makes me wonder if they're all lesbians and just won't admit it. I mean, after all, it seems like only women can be good men right? When men are trying to do something good for his family or society, it just perpetuates the fictional patriarchy.
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Post by lukelovesfilm34 on Jun 10, 2017 9:17:17 GMT
And how can no one here see how misandrist the Amazonian women are?? They all taught WW that men are the root of all evil and that sex with men is only good for reproduction.
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