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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 18:16:25 GMT
I just saw a Reddit post on this and thought it made some pretty good points. The MCU characters are constantly taking off their mask, leaving them on only during action scenes, and sometimes not even then.
The complaint has nothing to do with secret identities or lack there of. It’s more about reducing the iconic imagery of masked characters during key moments. Ant Man 3 was a good example of this. Every time the characters talk to each other they remove the masks.
When I think about the Raimi Spider-Man movies or really any of the Batman movies from Keaton to Pattinson I have a strong impression of the masked character and a complete melding of the actor’s voice and performance and that iconic masked look. It’s something very special. Phase One Iron Man did this as well with lines like “He’s all yours.” And “Keep the skies clear.” There are no lines like this in Phase 3 because Stark is always unmasked for them. It makes a big difference.
In the MCU the characters always unmask during the climax and the most dramatic moments of the movie. This is sometimes a better choice in moments like this, but when it’s done as often as Marvel does this it robs the masked version of the character of great lines (TChalla in Black Panther, for example, almost never delivers great lines when masked) and makes the heroes less iconic.
And don’t get me started on the nano tech shit every character has now!
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 16, 2023 18:26:22 GMT
I noticed that when I was watching those things.
They don't want to make superhero movies--they are using them cynically as a promotion vehicle for their ..whatever.
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Post by politicidal on Mar 16, 2023 18:29:26 GMT
"...And don’t get me started on the nano tech shit every character has now"
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 16, 2023 18:32:27 GMT
I'm fine with half and half. Like, if they at least keep their headgear on for half the time, enough to make the image stick, then I'm fine with it. I like seeing their faces because you get more emotion out of them that way, but at the same time I do want them to wear their headgear often enough that it becomes recognizable.
Captain America is a good balance of this. So is Ironman. Thor is horrible, as he almost never wears his helmet. Don't even get me started on Hawkeye. And I really wish they gave Wanda her costume a lot earlier.
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 16, 2023 19:11:29 GMT
The costumes upstage the actors, so…. Anyone can put on a mask and get another voice to complete “the look.” See Darth Vader.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 19:36:45 GMT
The costumes upstage the actors, so…. Anyone can put on a mask and get another voice to complete “the look.” See Darth Vader. Not true. Bale, Keaton and Pattinson own Batman when he’s behind the mask, even if you don’t consciously think about the actors when they’re under it. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 16, 2023 19:37:03 GMT
I just saw a Reddit post on this and thought it made some pretty good points. The MCU characters are constantly taking off their mask, leaving them on only during action scenes, and sometimes not even then. The complaint has nothing to do with secret identities or lack there of. It’s more about reducing the iconic imagery of masked characters during key moments. Ant Man 3 was a good example of this. Every time the characters talk to each other they remove the masks. When I think about the Raimi Spider-Man movies or really any of the Batman movies from Keaton to Pattinson I have a strong impression of the masked character and a complete melding of the actor’s voice and performance and that iconic masked look. It’s something very special. Phase One Iron Man did this as well with lines like “He’s all yours.” And “Keep the skies clear.” There are no lines like this in Phase 3 because Stark is always unmasked for them. It makes a big difference. In the MCU the characters always unmask during the climax and the most dramatic moments of the movie. This is sometimes a better choice in moments like this, but when it’s done as often as Marvel does this it robs the masked version of the character of great lines (TChalla in Black Panther, for example, almost never delivers great lines when masked) and makes the heroes less iconic. And don’t get me started on the nano tech shit every character has now! People were constantly complaining about Tobey being unmasked. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 19:37:53 GMT
I'm fine with half and half. Like, if they at least keep their headgear on for half the time, enough to make the image stick, then I'm fine with it. I like seeing their faces because you get more emotion out of them that way, but at the same time I do want them to wear their headgear often enough that it becomes recognizable. Captain America is a good balance of this. So is Ironman. Thor is horrible, as he almost never wears his helmet. Don't even get me started on Hawkeye. And I really wish they gave Wanda her costume a lot earlier. They did it right with Captain America. He has his mask on a good amount of the time. Also, totally agree about HAWKEYE’s HELMET of course. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 19:38:55 GMT
I just saw a Reddit post on this and thought it made some pretty good points. The MCU characters are constantly taking off their mask, leaving them on only during action scenes, and sometimes not even then. The complaint has nothing to do with secret identities or lack there of. It’s more about reducing the iconic imagery of masked characters during key moments. Ant Man 3 was a good example of this. Every time the characters talk to each other they remove the masks. When I think about the Raimi Spider-Man movies or really any of the Batman movies from Keaton to Pattinson I have a strong impression of the masked character and a complete melding of the actor’s voice and performance and that iconic masked look. It’s something very special. Phase One Iron Man did this as well with lines like “He’s all yours.” And “Keep the skies clear.” There are no lines like this in Phase 3 because Stark is always unmasked for them. It makes a big difference. In the MCU the characters always unmask during the climax and the most dramatic moments of the movie. This is sometimes a better choice in moments like this, but when it’s done as often as Marvel does this it robs the masked version of the character of great lines (TChalla in Black Panther, for example, almost never delivers great lines when masked) and makes the heroes less iconic. And don’t get me started on the nano tech shit every character has now! People were constantly complaining about Tobey being unmasked. Probably had more to do with his secret identity being exposed though. A totally different complaint. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 16, 2023 19:39:29 GMT
The costumes upstage the actors, so…. Anyone can put on a mask and get another voice to complete “the look.” See Darth Vader. Not true. Bale, Keaton and Pattinson own Batman when he’s behind the mask, even if you don’t consciously think about the actors when they’re under it. If you say so. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 19:41:11 GMT
Not true. Bale, Keaton and Pattinson own Batman when he’s behind the mask, even if you don’t consciously think about the actors when they’re under it. If you say so. I do! I really do! But if you disagree feel free to articulate why… |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 16, 2023 19:44:15 GMT
I do! I really do! But if you disagree feel free to articulate why… Pattinson is meh as an actor. The suit didn’t help. Keaton is great as Batman but his Bruce Wayne is no match for suit. Bales balances it out. Even so, Keaton is my favorite Batman, but I’m a critic, so…. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 19:47:11 GMT
I do! I really do! But if you disagree feel free to articulate why… Pattinson is meh as an actor. The suit didn’t help. Keaton is great as Batman but his Bruce Wayne is no match for suit. Bales balances it out. Even so, Keaton is my favorite Batman, but I’m a critic, so…. Sounds like you agree that Bale and Keaton do great under the mask though. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 16, 2023 19:51:27 GMT
Pattinson is meh as an actor. The suit didn’t help. Keaton is great as Batman but his Bruce Wayne is no match for suit. Bales balances it out. Even so, Keaton is my favorite Batman, but I’m a critic, so…. Sounds like you agree that Bale and Keaton do great under the mask though. The Wayne didn't match the Batman. He shrinks with it off. Ben Affleck is a great Wayne, but a sucky Batman. I’m not mentioning the other two. And Adam West balanced his character. He is the best TV Batman. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 16, 2023 19:57:44 GMT
I'm fine with half and half. Like, if they at least keep their headgear on for half the time, enough to make the image stick, then I'm fine with it. I like seeing their faces because you get more emotion out of them that way, but at the same time I do want them to wear their headgear often enough that it becomes recognizable. Captain America is a good balance of this. So is Ironman. Thor is horrible, as he almost never wears his helmet. Don't even get me started on Hawkeye. And I really wish they gave Wanda her costume a lot earlier. They did it right with Captain America. He has his mask on a good amount of the time. Also, totally agree about HAWKEYE’s HELMET of course. Something to keep in mind is that Captain America’s mask doesn’t cover his entire face, so you can still see the actor’s emotions while he’s masked. Same goes for Batman. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 19:59:48 GMT
Sounds like you agree that Bale and Keaton do great under the mask though. The Wayne didn't match the Batman. He shrinks with it off. Ben Affleck is a great Wayne, but a sucky Batman. I’m not mentioning the other two. And Adam West balanced his character. He is the best TV Batman. Keaton’s Batman is a good example of the opposite extreme of what I’m talking about. Those movies fully understood that Batman in costume with an actor deep in the persona is iconic. But they did certainly neglect to make the man behind the mask as important. |
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Post by paulslaugh on Mar 16, 2023 20:01:19 GMT
The Wayne didn't match the Batman. He shrinks with it off. Ben Affleck is a great Wayne, but a sucky Batman. I’m not mentioning the other two. And Adam West balanced his character. He is the best TV Batman. Keaton’s Batman is a good example of the opposite extreme of what I’m talking about. Those movies fully understood that Batman in costume with an actor deep in the persona is iconic. But they did certainly neglect to make the man behind the mask as important. You think Tim Burton had that in mind? I like how Pattinson’s Batman is leaner. He has a great feral look…kinda like a young Martin Landau. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 20:01:37 GMT
They did it right with Captain America. He has his mask on a good amount of the time. Also, totally agree about HAWKEYE’s HELMET of course. Something to keep in mind is that Captain America’s mask doesn’t cover his entire face, so you can still see the actor’s emotions while he’s masked. Same goes for Batman. True. Which is why I concede that some unmasking is necessary, particularly during the big dramatic scenes. My point is only that Marvel does it far too often. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2023 20:02:16 GMT
Keaton’s Batman is a good example of the opposite extreme of what I’m talking about. Those movies fully understood that Batman in costume with an actor deep in the persona is iconic. But they did certainly neglect to make the man behind the mask as important. You think Tim Burton had that in mind? That Batman in costume is an iconic figure? Of course. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 16, 2023 20:05:09 GMT
Don't have a problem with this at all. I want to connect with the person behind the mask, that's what made the comics so good when I was a kid. To me, the character is iconic whether they're wearing the mask or not. If the actors' performance and the writing has done the character justice, they don't need to have the mask on at all times to remind us which hero they're supposed to be.
The studio paid top dollar for great actors to emote onscreen, they could've gotten anyone to do voicework in a CGI suit.
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