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Post by ZolotoyRetriever on Apr 1, 2023 21:12:22 GMT
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Post by marianne48 on Apr 1, 2023 22:19:15 GMT
I remember those surprise appearances when Carson would be chatting with Ed when the band would suddenly explode into "Thanks for the Memories" and Bob Hope would come striding out onto the stage. Carson would always have to pretend to look thrilled and honored, but he did seem a little irritated; it was like having some annoying relative that you had to be nice to show up at your house uninvited. Hope was probably aware of Carson's irritation, too, and probably enjoyed one-upping him.
Actress Mamie Van Doren recently had some interesting observations about Hope. I hope they're in the book, too.
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Post by Catman on Apr 1, 2023 22:20:38 GMT
What a coincidence. Catman felt the same way about Hope.
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Post by mortsahlfan on Apr 1, 2023 22:53:34 GMT
I have "Bombastic" Bushkin's book. Even the long-time lawyer and confidante aired Johnny's dirty laundry.
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Post by ZolotoyRetriever on Apr 10, 2023 8:08:45 GMT
I'm old enough to remember seeing Bob Hope walk onto The Tonight Show set... but at the time, I wasn't savvy enough to pick up the vibes from Carson that he was annoyed with Hope's visits. I *do* remember that encounter (confrontation) with Don Rickles, though... Rickles, guest-hosting, had tampered with some of Carson's personal items at his desk, which tampering Johnny was definitely not pleased with when he returned to his desk. I sure couldn't blame him.
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Post by marianne48 on Apr 10, 2023 9:03:31 GMT
I'm old enough to remember seeing Bob Hope walk onto The Tonight Show set... but at the time, I wasn't savvy enough to pick up the vibes from Carson that he was annoyed with Hope's visits. I *do* remember that encounter (confrontation) with Don Rickles, though... Rickles, guest-hosting, had tampered with some of Carson's personal items at his desk, which tampering Johnny was definitely not pleased with when he returned to his desk. I sure couldn't blame him. He'd broken Carson's cigarette box! 😠 Carson immediately stormed the set of Rickles' sitcom, CPO Sharkey, and chewed him out. This was one of the most spontaneous moments of the show, aside from Joan Embery's animals peeing on Carson or his desk.
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Post by msdemos on Apr 10, 2023 17:18:15 GMT
A GREAT book !! Tore through it MUCH quicker than the time it usually takes me to get through a (somewhat) long book like this one! Personally, I find Bob Hope to be ENDLESSLY fascinating, due to being such a DEEPLY flawed human being !! He travelled hundreds of thousands of miles for MANY decades entertaining the troops in the far corners of the globe, yet cheated on his wife NOTORIOUSLY, was a distant father (in name only) to his four adopted kids, treated many of his multitude of writers terribly (at times), and MOST tellingly, by the end of his 100 year life, had VERY few (any?) truly close, personal friends.... Never having any idea of the 'behind the scenes' drama he created whenever he showed up on The Tonight Show back in the day, it's REALLY fun watching those shows now, trying to pick up on any tension on Johnny's part, now knowing how much he disliked Hope's CONSTANT appearances on his show..... SAVE FERRIS
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Post by telegonus on Apr 11, 2023 6:35:53 GMT
I can understand Johnny Carson's irritation with Bob Hope, whose every appearance on The Tonight Show was a show stopper in the worst sense of that term. Nearer to show killer. Hope didn't bring much to the party. It was all about him, "gracing" Carson's show with his superstar presence. Likely amusing for old-timers, not the younger viewers.
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Post by marianne48 on Apr 11, 2023 19:40:51 GMT
A lot of those vaudeville comedians who transitioned to TV were given 50-year contracts, which were kind of like the 99-year sentences given to convicted criminals--no one really expected them to hang around for so long. Guys like Milton Berle and Sid Caesar gradually moved into semi-retirement as their ratings slipped. Hope seemed to stubbornly cling to his NBC contract, continuing to appear on specials long after his prime, just because he could. Those specials in his later years (1990s) were positively painful to watch--clumsily edited monologues in which Hope would deliver a line ("But I wanna tell ya...") which would be followed by a cut to a wildly laughing and cheering audience. The cuts to the audience would look and sound identical, because it was usually a few cuts used repeatedly. This would be followed by sketches in which a guest star would deliver a set-up line, then there would be a cut to Hope reciting the punch line. It was apparent that these scenes were done at different times, rather than an actual exchange between the guest and Hope, as Hope couldn't hear the guest star and probably had a lot of difficulty with his own lines. NBC finally decided to end the specials, leading one NY-based TV critic named Kay Gardella, an old, old friend of Hope, to react with outrage (her idea of being a TV critic, by definition not the most strenuous of jobs, consisted largely of getting advance copies of Hope's specials and rehashing nearly every sketch and joke in the show).
Even after he ended the specials, there continued to be stories, presumably released by his press agent, about how Hope went to his office every day and continued to present jokes from the official "Bob Hope's Joke File" to be printed in daily newspapers. Also, a story in the late, great Spy magazine, sometime in the late 1980s-early '90s, printed a story from a reporter who had spent the night at the Hope mansion and related how Hope had entered his bedroom one night and invited him to accompany him on a night of sexual thrills. Whoever the sex worker was that night, she had guts.
As for his lifetime of entertaining the troops--I attended a local program featuring a speaker who had researched and written about Hope and other celebrities for many years. He pointed out that many, many performers had also spent years entertaining the troops; they did their bit and went home, and didn't spend too much time talking about it, out of modesty and a reluctance to glorify themselves. It was Hope who continued to dwell on it a little too flagrantly. Yes, he invested a lot of time in doing so, and deserves praise, but sometimes he could go overboard.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 11, 2023 19:59:21 GMT
I remember his appearances and also his specials where he was usually holding a golf club. I can't say I ever looked forward to one of those specials. They sure did a lot of them.
I could just see a cartoon idea of Carson in hell at his desk and hearing "thanks for the memories" playing and Hope coming out dressed as the Devil.
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Post by mikef6 on Apr 12, 2023 18:16:58 GMT
I have been around a while and remember Bob Hope very well. Even when I was a young person he wasn't very exciting to me. Although I do remember one Hope appearance on Tonight With Johnny Carson. With Carson behind the desk and Hope on the sofa, Johnny introduced a comedian who was just terrible. Her big finale was singing out of tune and strumming a guitar she didn't know how to play. Dreadful. A couple of times the camera cut to Carson and Hope who were laughing their asses off. After the act had left and Hope followed her out, Johnny went on about how gracious a person Bob Hope was - presumably because he pretended to be amused at the lousy jokes when he didn't have to. I've always remembered that. It is quite a contrast to the stories being told on this thread. (But I do believe he was lousy to his wife, writers, and staff. Heard all that before.)
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Post by ZolotoyRetriever on Apr 12, 2023 19:39:01 GMT
lol Sounds too bizarre to pass up. I'm gonna' have to find a clip of that.
mikef6
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 12, 2023 21:05:56 GMT
I saw a documentary-I think it was made by Jack Black of all people--about a comedian who bombed his Tonight Show appearance. He wasn't doing much other than impersonations--but he did an impersonation of Ed and then Johnny --and the audience went into a scolding gasp and Carson said "thank you Randy" and that was it---he wasn't invited to sit down--which was the big milestone for a comedian--if you were asked to sit down after the routine. You could tell Carson felt insulted. And the comedian in retrospect, was saying how he regretted making that error during his big shot at prime time.
He was forced out wasn't he? They wanted to make room for someone younger like Jay Leno. It was amazing how Leno transformed himself-he did the opposite of George Carlin or Richard Pryor. They went from suits and clean cut to hippie attire--but Leno was dressed like a biker and very cynical on Letterman appearances--and then for the Tonight Show--he completely redesigned his persona--toned it down to be family friendly. The opposite of Carlin and Pryor.
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Post by ZolotoyRetriever on Apr 12, 2023 21:22:40 GMT
Never cared for Leno. After Carson stepped down, I never watched The Tonight Show again. (...and I had watched it for nearly 2 decades.)
Prime etc.
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Post by marianne48 on Apr 13, 2023 0:08:48 GMT
Carson was friendly with David Letterman and was his choice for his successor. After Leno got the show and Letterman went to CBS, Carson remained in contact with him, sending him jokes and making his final late-night appearance on the CBS show. Leno was awful, and managed to shut out both Letterman and, later, Conan O'Brien, two hosts who were far superior.
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Post by movielover on Apr 13, 2023 0:17:43 GMT
Interesting read. Thanks.
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Post by movielover on Apr 13, 2023 0:23:46 GMT
Carson was friendly with David Letterman and was his choice for his successor. After Leno got the show and Letterman went to CBS, Carson remained in contact with him, sending him jokes and making his final late-night appearance on the CBS show. Leno was awful, and managed to shut out both Letterman and, later, Conan O'Brien, two hosts who were far superior. There’s a really good HBO movie about all this called The Late Shift (1996), if anybody wants to check it out. It’s entertaining and informative about all the behind-the-scenes stuff that was going on.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 13, 2023 0:32:11 GMT
That's the irony with Leno--I remember him on Letterman. "What's my beef?"
I am sure neither of them expected that he would end up taking the Tonight Show spot. He had to completely change, wear a suit etc.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Jan 13, 2024 22:00:45 GMT
Lee Marvin cracks up Bob Hope?
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Post by mortsahlfan on Jan 14, 2024 21:38:39 GMT
I was just reading Mort Sahl say, "Johnny said off-camera that he thought Hope was a phony patriot, draping himself with the flag"
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