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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Jun 4, 2017 22:07:30 GMT
Religion essentially means origin--and I do not think basic ideas on religion are bad. What is bad, in fact very very bad, is SRT or specific revelatory theism.
Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are big on this. This has caused a lot of problems. I would say the first two have been the worst culprits though. Not that atheism is saintly either, I think it can be bad too depending on the nature of it.
"
Man is the Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion, several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself, and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven. He was at it in the time of the Caesars, he was at it in Mahomet's time, he was at it in the time of the Inquisition, he was at it in France a couple of centuries, he was at it in England in Mary's day, he has been at it ever since he first saw the light, he is at it today in Crete (as per the telegrams quoted above) he will be at it somewhere else tomorrow. The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out, in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.
Man is the Reasoning Animal. Such is the claim. I think it is open to dispute. Indeed, my experiments have proven to me that he is the Unreasoning Animal. Note his history, as sketched above. It seems plain to me that whatever he is he is not a reasoning animal. His record is the fantastic record of a maniac. I consider that the strongest count against his intelligence is the fact that with that record back of him he blandly sets himself up as the head animal of the lot: whereas by his own standards he is the bottom one.
In truth, man is incurably foolish. Simple things which the other animals easily learn, he is incapable of learning. Among my experiments was this. In an hour I taught a cat and a dog to be friends. I put them in a cage. In another hour I taught them to be friends with a rabbit. In the course of two days I was able to add a fox, a goose, a squirrel and some doves. Finally a monkey. They lived together in peace; even affectionately.
Next, in another cage I confined an Irish Catholic from Tipperary, and as soon as he seemed tame I added a Scotch Presbyterian from Aberdeen. Next a Turk from Constantinople; a Greek Christian from Crete; an Armenian; a Methodist from the wilds of Arkansas; a Buddhist from China; a Brahman from Benares. Finally, a Salvation Army Colonel from Wapping. Then I stayed away two whole days. When I came back to note results, the cage of Higher Animals was all right, but in the other there was but a chaos of gory odds and ends of turbans and fezzes and plaids and bones and flesh not a specimen left alive. These Reasoning Animals had disagreed on a theological detail and carried the matter to a Higher Court." Mark Twain
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Post by clusium on Jun 4, 2017 22:09:21 GMT
Millions were killed because of atheistic regimes too.
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Post by clusium on Jun 4, 2017 22:31:13 GMT
Millions were killed because of atheistic regimes too. Care to give some examples?
The Soviet Union, China, & the French Revolution.
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blade
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Post by blade on Jun 4, 2017 22:34:35 GMT
Christianity has been helpful.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 4, 2017 22:50:10 GMT
It was useful as a coping mechanism, but there's better things for that now (a stiff martini for instance)
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 4, 2017 22:52:55 GMT
Care to give some examples?
The Soviet Union, China, & the French Revolution. Those behind the French Revolution were deists not atheists.
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Post by thefleetsin on Jun 4, 2017 23:07:28 GMT
religions were dreamed up to captivate the imagination and control the mind.
way back when, people were incredibly ignorant. and when i say way back when, i'm referring to the start of trump's presidential campaign.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Jun 5, 2017 2:32:18 GMT
There were a lot of religion-based wars in the past. Millions of people died.
Do the positives outweigh the negatives? I'd say "indispensable". Early civilization was brutal - it was (and is) a great system for exercising restraint in individuals, contributing towards cooperation among its own, etc. Sure, it's also tribal and drove wars, but it's hardly as if that's a trait specific to religion. It also brought about quite a bit of great art which otherwise wouldn't exist, and contributed to science in some areas. It's good training wheels until we can steel ourselves to be decent in a mutually-agreed upon fashion for the sake of its own effectiveness and return, rather than out of fear of divine retribution.
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Post by theoncomingstorm on Jun 5, 2017 3:32:38 GMT
Millions were killed because of atheistic regimes too. Deflection at it's finest and the cases of anyone killing somebody in the name of atheism are practically nonexistent.
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Post by permutojoe on Jun 5, 2017 4:41:59 GMT
We are the only animal that has the capacity for rational thought. Many don't utilize it though, and we are typically encouraged not to by governments, churches and other societal institutions.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 5, 2017 5:10:04 GMT
Millions were killed because of atheistic regimes too. Deflection at it's finest and the cases of anyone killing somebody in the name of atheism are practically nonexistent. What difference does that make to the millions of dead people who were killed by atheistic regimes? They were still killed.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 6:20:12 GMT
Deflection at it's finest and the cases of anyone killing somebody in the name of atheism are practically nonexistent. What difference does that make to the millions of dead people who were killed by atheistic regimes? They were still killed. To an idiot like you who can't grasp the point nothing. The country that industrially slaughtered ten million people midway through the last century was 98% Christian,It seemed to make no difference that the people doing the killing were breaking one of the most important tenets of their faith,and those ten million were still killed.
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Post by Sulla on Jun 5, 2017 7:07:50 GMT
There are plenty of examples of both help and harm. We can't say which one outweighs the other without knowing everything that has happened in human history. That would also need to include the reasons why everyone has or has not helped or harmed. Lots of people have killed because of religion, but we'll never know how many people have refrained from killing because of religion. Only an omniscient being could accurately answer such a question.
Admin The two ads at the bottom of this page keep playing a noisy video ad for Stainmaster. You asked us to let you know.
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Post by Admin on Jun 5, 2017 7:44:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 7:51:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 8:03:03 GMT
Religious apologetics and self serving propaganda. The first paragraph of that wiki link gives it away: Atheism has not nor ever will be a religion in the same way baldness will never be a hair colour.
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Post by Sulla on Jun 5, 2017 8:08:38 GMT
Admin The two ads at the bottom of this page keep playing a noisy video ad for Stainmaster. You asked us to let you know. Hi Sulla. The ads are tailored and therefore aren't the same for everyone. Please report that ad by clicking "Report Ad" at the bottom of the page. Thanks. Done. Now I know what to do. Thank you, John.
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Jun 5, 2017 8:36:18 GMT
What difference does that make to the millions of dead people who were killed by atheistic regimes? They were still killed. To an idiot like you who can't grasp the point nothing. The country that industrially slaughtered ten million people midway through the last century was 98% Christian,It seemed to make no difference that the people doing the killing were breaking one of the most important tenets of their faith,and those ten million were still killed. It was indeed, and you say it yourself those people were breaking the tenets of their faith ( I trust you are not suggesting that Hitler and his cronies were religiously motivated). Now in the case of Russia that was responsible for as many, if not more deaths, those were atheistic, not breaking any tenet. What it shows is that in spite of religion and any teachings men will revert to individualistic greed, hate, murder etc. If people want to perpetuate the hate or even build on it then causing division and hatred for anything different will certainly do that.
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 5, 2017 9:54:46 GMT
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 5, 2017 10:48:06 GMT
There were a lot of religion-based wars in the past. Millions of people died.
Do the positives outweigh the negatives? It is perhaps the height of irony that, of all creatures, humans have the most capacity to understand their surroundings and at the same time the most capacity to misunderstand each other. Of all creatures known on Earth humans have the most capacity to communicate. Perhaps as a result humans have the most capacity to copy what they have not truly known and perhaps have not truly understood. The exact "cause" of trouble can be difficult to determine. The cause of several wars over the span of well recorded history appears to be the rise of fringe elements. Cities developed and life became more comfortable and at the same time more productive. An early example is Sumer. People living on the fringe grew in numbers for various reasons yet not as comfortable and took the city. Notice the chain of centers of civilizations. It includes Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Greece, and Rome. Each were conquered by fringe people outside of the current center of civilization. Those conquerors then settled and became civilized themselves. Then the new expanded fringe on their frontiers did to them what they did to others before them. The pattern is indisputable. Rome is an exception in that its conquerors failed to establish a unified center of civilization. Is the cause of war then civilization? Or the fringe? It might be more correct to say that the cause of war is the combination in close proximity of a civilization and a fringe. Notice that religion is not the "cause" it perhaps once was when military expansionist leaders typically and without question operated in the name of some "god." Nor was it like the Thirty Year's War or other european conflicts between rival aristocrats who took religion as an excuse for the expansion of their personal power, or perhaps had such a crude understanding of religion as to think their military efforts were important. Except for a very brief time in the scope of all history, about 70 years, following Darwin's Origin of the Species ... , atheism was not a significant presence in any society. That is, not in the sense it became significant for that brief time. Eastern philosophical traditions have not typically been anthropomorphic and have been agnostic in that regard, but certainly not atheist in the western sense. Atheism today has none of the scientific support it had for that time yet there are many people who do not understand that. To repeat, of all creatures known on Earth humans have the most capacity to communicate. Perhaps as a result humans have the most capacity to copy what they have not truly known and have not truly understood. Atheists are poor and uneducated people with a superficial understanding of advanced culture, the people on the "fringe" such as it remains today. They are definitely not agnostic as people in eastern philosophical traditions. Yet they think they are "smarter" much as the Romans thought Romans were smarter for taking control of things. They are in fact so stupid that if they caused a war they would think it was someone else's fault.
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