|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 30, 2023 14:42:21 GMT
It's almost certain Hydra knew Skrulls existed, but how could they know all of the Skrulls working with Fury? How could they avoid them? How would they know who's a Skrull? It makes the already implausible enormity of the Hydra terror cell within SHIELD even more hard to swallow. And you're wrong, we know they were working with Fury from 1997 until at least the blip. We saw Talos and Soren working with him on screen even after that, and we know for a fact other Skrulls were working for him; that's why they're so bitter. It's literally the purpose Gravik and many others turned on Fury-- because they did his dirty work, and he didn't live up to his end of the bargain. We don't know how many Skrulls Fury had, but it was more than a handful, going by that scene alone. And it isn't unreasonable to assume more joined the cause afterward, considering how many of them now feel betrayed by him. If you actually use your brain while watching the show, these issues become evident rather quickly. You keep bringing up extraneous information. I'm not talking about the Skrulls who came later. I'm talking about the stuff we saw on screen. We know Talos and Soren were working with him as of "Far From Home", we don't know when they came back and started working with Fury again. Captain Marvel ended with the majority of them leaving with her for an unknown area of space. In fact, Talos implies that it wasn't many and we still don't know the whole story.
Here's a thing, wait till the story is done and then draw conclusions instead of jumping the gun like so many keep doing.
We know Skrulls have been working with him for a while because that's what the plot of the show revolves around. The Skrulls feel used and betrayed for holding up their end of the bargain while Fury seemingly reneged on his promise. Here's the thing, stop arguing for the sake of arguing when you can't even follow the narrative of the MCU in general, much less this show. I'm fully aware the show could eventually answer all of these questions, but my points are still valid. It wouldn't be the first time current events of a show don't seem to jibe with MCU continuity.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jun 30, 2023 16:45:25 GMT
We know Talos and Soren were working with him as of "Far From Home", we don't know when they came back and started working with Fury again. Captain Marvel ended with the majority of them leaving with her for an unknown area of space. In fact, Talos implies that it wasn't many and we still don't know the whole story.
Here's a thing, wait till the story is done and then draw conclusions instead of jumping the gun like so many keep doing.
We know Skrulls have been working with him for a while because that's what the plot of the show revolves around. The Skrulls feel used and betrayed for holding up their end of the bargain while Fury seemingly reneged on his promise. Here's the thing, stop arguing for the sake of arguing when you can't even follow the narrative of the MCU in general, much less this show. I'm fully aware the show could eventually answer all of these questions, but my points are still valid. It wouldn't be the first time current events of a show don't seem to jibe with MCU continuity. We know they feel betrayed over something he said he'd help them with 30 years ago. We don't know what happened during the 30 years and how long they were on Earth for, because Talos explicitly said that most of them arrived during the 5 years.
Here's a thing, wait till the story is done and then complain if you still feel like not enough was answered.
|
|
Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
|
Post by Sam Raimi on Jun 30, 2023 17:53:30 GMT
This series has retconned skrulls into Shield? That’s pretty dumb. Uh huh, and when the X-Men and mutants are brought in and it's revealed SHIELD had Mutant Agents in the past will you think that's dumb too? No
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jun 30, 2023 19:17:07 GMT
Uh huh, and when the X-Men and mutants are brought in and it's revealed SHIELD had Mutant Agents in the past will you think that's dumb too? No So double standards it is.
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 30, 2023 21:14:09 GMT
We know Skrulls have been working with him for a while because that's what the plot of the show revolves around. The Skrulls feel used and betrayed for holding up their end of the bargain while Fury seemingly reneged on his promise. Here's the thing, stop arguing for the sake of arguing when you can't even follow the narrative of the MCU in general, much less this show. I'm fully aware the show could eventually answer all of these questions, but my points are still valid. It wouldn't be the first time current events of a show don't seem to jibe with MCU continuity. We know they feel betrayed over something he said he'd help them with 30 years ago. We don't know what happened during the 30 years and how long they were on Earth for, because Talos explicitly said that most of them arrived during the 5 years.
Here's a thing, wait till the story is done and then complain if you still feel like not enough was answered.
Again, those skrulls have nothing to do with anything I've said. I'm talking about the Skrulls like Gravik who we've seen on screen pledging to help Fury. This idea that those operatives wouldn't have uncovered Hydra is even more implausible than Hydra growing to the point it did without Fury noticing himself. You seem to have a real problem grasping basic concepts. Maybe it will be explained by the end of the series, but it's idiotic to suggest someone can't comment on a television series until it's over.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jun 30, 2023 22:07:53 GMT
This series has retconned skrulls into Shield? That’s pretty dumb. Looks like it. Granted the MCU been retconing stuff for awhile now. I don't the MCU is as planned out as many fans believe it was. I have noticed most of the retcons tend to occur whenever the Skrulls and Captain Marvel are touched upon. In retrospect, I think setting the Captain Marvel movie in the 1990's was a mistake, that movie and the the attempts to justify the character's importance has just lessened the impact of the earlier entries, especially the first Avengers and Captain America: The Winter Soldier. ^ This interaction just doesn't have the same weight as it does anymore, because we know now that Fury was lying. The plan to bring together The Avengers as a group was also not needed, as it has been established that Captain Marvel can be reached at any time and drop down whenever the call is sent. Even the idea of The Avengers isn't as special anymore, because the operation is named after Carol Danvers, who strangely wasn't reached to be the leader of the group. ^ Turned out this wasn't a dramatic event, but a rather a comedic one - a Flerken that resembles an Earth feline scratched his face while he was playing with it. And to make matters worse? It lessens the great work Jackson has done as the character. I am surprised he has gone along with all of this.
|
|
|
Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jun 30, 2023 22:11:07 GMT
Looks like it. Granted the MCU been retconing stuff for awhile now. I don't the MCU is as planned out as many fans believe it was. I have noticed most of the retcons tend to occur whenever the Skrulls and Captain Marvel are touched upon. In retrospect, I think setting the Captain Marvel movie in the 1990's was a mistake, that movie and the the attempts to justify the character's importance has just lessened the impact of the earlier entries, especially the first Avengers and Captain America: The Winter Soldier. ^ This interaction just doesn't have the same weight as it does anymore, because we know now that Fury was lying. The plan to bring together The Avengers as a group was also not needed, as it has been established that Captain Marvel can be reached at any time and drop down whenever the call is sent. Even the idea of The Avengers isn't as special anymore, because the operation is named after Carol Danvers, who strangely wasn't reached to be the leader of the group. ^ Turned out this wasn't a dramatic event, but a rather a comedic one - a Flerken that resembles an Earth feline scratched his face while he was playing with it. And to make matters worse? It lessens the great work Jackson has done as the character. I am surprised he has gone along with all of this. To be fair Fury did manipulated the Avengers in the first film. Even going as far as planting the cards that Coulson wanted Steve to sign. But yeah the eye thing was such a copout on Marvel part.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jun 30, 2023 23:14:21 GMT
I have noticed most of the retcons tend to occur whenever the Skrulls and Captain Marvel are touched upon. In retrospect, I think setting the Captain Marvel movie in the 1990's was a mistake, that movie and the the attempts to justify the character's importance has just lessened the impact of the earlier entries, especially the first Avengers and Captain America: The Winter Soldier. ^ This interaction just doesn't have the same weight as it does anymore, because we know now that Fury was lying. The plan to bring together The Avengers as a group was also not needed, as it has been established that Captain Marvel can be reached at any time and drop down whenever the call is sent. Even the idea of The Avengers isn't as special anymore, because the operation is named after Carol Danvers, who strangely wasn't reached to be the leader of the group. ^ Turned out this wasn't a dramatic event, but a rather a comedic one - a Flerken that resembles an Earth feline scratched his face while he was playing with it. And to make matters worse? It lessens the great work Jackson has done as the character. I am surprised he has gone along with all of this. To be fair Fury did manipulated the Avengers in the first film. Even going as far as planting the cards that Coulson wanted Steve to sign. But yeah the eye thing was such a copout on Marvel part. Yes, but still...
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jun 30, 2023 23:58:06 GMT
We know they feel betrayed over something he said he'd help them with 30 years ago. We don't know what happened during the 30 years and how long they were on Earth for, because Talos explicitly said that most of them arrived during the 5 years.
Here's a thing, wait till the story is done and then complain if you still feel like not enough was answered.
Again, those skrulls have nothing to do with anything I've said. I'm talking about the Skrulls like Gravik who we've seen on screen pledging to help Fury. This idea that those operatives wouldn't have uncovered Hydra is even more implausible than Hydra growing to the point it did without Fury noticing himself. You seem to have a real problem grasping basic concepts. Maybe it will be explained by the end of the series, but it's idiotic to suggest someone can't comment on a television series until it's over. Gravik was a kid and we don't know what happened in the intervening 30 years, whether he stayed or left and came back later more embittered.
You have an issue seeing plot holes where there are none.
And yes, if we're only seeing 2 parts of a larger puzzle I very much can say "You can't complain without seeing the whole image".
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jun 30, 2023 23:58:59 GMT
He lost his eye due to an injury from a mighty space beast. No shame in that.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 1, 2023 2:18:47 GMT
He lost his eye due to an injury from a mighty space beast. No shame in that. A mighty space beast that resembles that of a harmless Earth cat that he played with like it was an ordinary house pet. Instead of him losing his eye in an act of bravery that would have saved a life he loses it by ignorance that is played for laughs.
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jul 1, 2023 4:11:05 GMT
Again, those skrulls have nothing to do with anything I've said. I'm talking about the Skrulls like Gravik who we've seen on screen pledging to help Fury. This idea that those operatives wouldn't have uncovered Hydra is even more implausible than Hydra growing to the point it did without Fury noticing himself. You seem to have a real problem grasping basic concepts. Maybe it will be explained by the end of the series, but it's idiotic to suggest someone can't comment on a television series until it's over. Gravik was a kid and we don't know what happened in the intervening 30 years, whether he stayed or left and came back later more embittered.
You have an issue seeing plot holes where there are none.
And yes, if we're only seeing 2 parts of a larger puzzle I very much can say "You can't complain without seeing the whole image".
Your argument makes zero sense and doesn't refute anything I said. How does this explain why none of the Skrulls in the network uncovered the Hydra conspiracy? You can't even follow the plot, what would you know about plot holes? You thought Nick Fury discovered Hydra before the events of TWS. And yes, I'm allowed to speculate that it won't be explained, even if any criticism of Marvel whatsoever bothers you. By all means, keep arguing that 2+2=5.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jul 1, 2023 15:50:01 GMT
He lost his eye due to an injury from a mighty space beast. No shame in that. A mighty space beast that resembles that of a harmless Earth cat that he played with like it was an ordinary house pet. Instead of him losing his eye in an act of bravery that would have saved a life he loses it by ignorance that is played for laughs. Still a mighty space beast, appearance matters not.
And if he'd lost his eye in a battle with a Skrull or Yon-Rogg or Carol herself was responsible, the complaints would be that the origin of his lost eye was "Too Predictable".
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jul 1, 2023 15:51:56 GMT
Gravik was a kid and we don't know what happened in the intervening 30 years, whether he stayed or left and came back later more embittered.
You have an issue seeing plot holes where there are none.
And yes, if we're only seeing 2 parts of a larger puzzle I very much can say "You can't complain without seeing the whole image".
Your argument makes zero sense and doesn't refute anything I said. How does this explain why none of the Skrulls in the network uncovered the Hydra conspiracy? You can't even follow the plot, what would you know about plot holes? You thought Nick Fury discovered Hydra before the events of TWS. And yes, I'm allowed to speculate that it won't be explained, even if any criticism of Marvel whatsoever bothers you. By all means, keep arguing that 2+2=5. Because we don't know how many were actually on Earth during the 30 years and how deep in they were or if they were some secret other reserve he used outside SHIELD work, and he did suspect there was something else going on before TWS otherwise he wouldn't have sent Rogers and Widow on that mission to start with.
You're allowed to, but it's a baseless speculation when you're complaining about a completed story you've only seen 33% of so far.
I don't recall people complaining about Daredevil's storyline like this, when it's first season aired, despite it being flawed.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 1, 2023 18:53:23 GMT
A mighty space beast that resembles that of a harmless Earth cat that he played with like it was an ordinary house pet. Instead of him losing his eye in an act of bravery that would have saved a life he loses it by ignorance that is played for laughs. Still a mighty space beast, appearance matters not.
And if he'd lost his eye in a battle with a Skrull or Yon-Rogg or Carol herself was responsible, the complaints would be that the origin of his lost eye was "Too Predictable".
Actually, in the case of Goose appearance does matter because Fury thought they were a harmless and cuddly animal and his ignorance cost him an eye. It was pretty ineffective as a joke and made worse given how seriously Fury had painted the situation in The Winter Soldier. What a way to emasculate a strong male character played by one of Hollywood's longest active action stars. How Samuel L. Jackson went along with it and why Kevin Feige approved it in the first place is nothing short of eyebrow raising. I would take too predictable over a rather poor attempt at humor.
|
|
|
Post by Cat on Jul 1, 2023 20:00:58 GMT
Your argument makes zero sense and doesn't refute anything I said. How does this explain why none of the Skrulls in the network uncovered the Hydra conspiracy? You can't even follow the plot, what would you know about plot holes? You thought Nick Fury discovered Hydra before the events of TWS. And yes, I'm allowed to speculate that it won't be explained, even if any criticism of Marvel whatsoever bothers you. By all means, keep arguing that 2+2=5. Because we don't know how many were actually on Earth during the 30 years and how deep in they were or if they were some secret other reserve he used outside SHIELD work, and he did suspect there was something else going on before TWS otherwise he wouldn't have sent Rogers and Widow on that mission to start with.
You're allowed to, but it's a baseless speculation when you're complaining about a completed story you've only seen 33% of so far.
I don't recall people complaining about Daredevil's storyline like this, when it's first season aired, despite it being flawed.
That could be because the Daredevil episodes were all released at once while the Disney + shows are released weekly.
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jul 1, 2023 23:04:19 GMT
Your argument makes zero sense and doesn't refute anything I said. How does this explain why none of the Skrulls in the network uncovered the Hydra conspiracy? You can't even follow the plot, what would you know about plot holes? You thought Nick Fury discovered Hydra before the events of TWS. And yes, I'm allowed to speculate that it won't be explained, even if any criticism of Marvel whatsoever bothers you. By all means, keep arguing that 2+2=5. Because we don't know how many were actually on Earth during the 30 years and how deep in they were or if they were some secret other reserve he used outside SHIELD work, and he did suspect there was something else going on before TWS otherwise he wouldn't have sent Rogers and Widow on that mission to start with.
You're allowed to, but it's a baseless speculation when you're complaining about a completed story you've only seen 33% of so far.
I don't recall people complaining about Daredevil's storyline like this, when it's first season aired, despite it being flawed.
Daredevil's first season might have had its flaws but it's still considered one of the best Marvel tv shows around. Complaining why a good show is getting more praise than a subpar show is completely asinine. Of course Daredevil gets less complaints. It was a better show.
|
|
Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
|
Post by Sam Raimi on Jul 2, 2023 0:16:00 GMT
So double standards it is. Nope.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jul 2, 2023 3:07:28 GMT
Still a mighty space beast, appearance matters not.
And if he'd lost his eye in a battle with a Skrull or Yon-Rogg or Carol herself was responsible, the complaints would be that the origin of his lost eye was "Too Predictable".
Actually, in the case of Goose appearance does matter because Fury thought they were a harmless and cuddly animal and his ignorance cost him an eye. It was pretty ineffective as a joke and made worse given how seriously Fury had painted the situation in The Winter Soldier. What a way to emasculate a strong male character played by one of Hollywood's longest active action stars, How Samuel L. Jackson went along with it and why Kevin Feige approved it in the first place is nothing short of eyebrow raising. I would take too predictable over a rather poor attempt at humor. Yes, losing your eye to a mighty space beast. How emasculating.
And if it had been done in the predictable way, then it would be "too boring".
IE, no-win scenario.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Jul 2, 2023 3:08:49 GMT
Because we don't know how many were actually on Earth during the 30 years and how deep in they were or if they were some secret other reserve he used outside SHIELD work, and he did suspect there was something else going on before TWS otherwise he wouldn't have sent Rogers and Widow on that mission to start with.
You're allowed to, but it's a baseless speculation when you're complaining about a completed story you've only seen 33% of so far.
I don't recall people complaining about Daredevil's storyline like this, when it's first season aired, despite it being flawed.
Daredevil's first season might have had its flaws but it's still considered one of the best Marvel tv shows around. Complaining why a good show is getting more praise than a subpar show is completely asinine. Of course Daredevil gets less complaints. It was a better show. If folks were as determined to hate Daredevil from day one like they were with Secret Invasion, it's flaws (and it has them) would be brought up much more often. But due to double standards, that doesn't happen.
Secret Invasion is so far better than DD S1.
|
|