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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 21, 2023 18:47:37 GMT
Yes, it rather is. Nice change of pace.
They're talked about enough, considering aside from Fury there's no major MCU characters in this show it's gotten enough chatter. Folks didn't talk much about Breaking Bad and The Wire when they started either.
Not really given how the writing isn't of exceptional quality and has to rely on its actors to try and do all the heavy lifting to elevate the material. The Flash is also talked about "enough" and it's one of the biggest box office flops in recent memory, the latest Indiana Jones is also talked about "enough" and it's looking to be the worst performing release under Disney this year. And neither Breaking Bad or The Wire were mini-series based on superhero comics that aired exclusively on a Disney streaming service, so your argument doesn't work as well as you would like it too. Actors elevating the material, so like True Detective or Star Wars.
Indy wasn't talked about much, except the usual suspects complaining about a woman being in the movie. Yes, BB and The Wire instead were on more easily accessible channels and despite this got low ratings which didn't say anything about their quality. So the same goes for Secret Invasion, except it has the additional difficulty of being on a smaller service not many have access to
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 21, 2023 18:48:10 GMT
Never saw Raised by Wolves, but Westworld was pretentious tripe that fell apart after 1 season and needed obvious gimmicks like the "2 time periods" stuff to hide an obvious plot that didn't even make sense with how rushed Williams' change was.
Never saw those vampire flicks either, I wasn't offended by She-Hulks' existence like the Fragile Broflakes were though.
Your dislike for Westworld does not and should not dismiss Skaathar response to you that they can enjoy television programs that are slow-paced and character-driven. That's not how the force works, to quote Han Solo. (Since you feel the need to reference Star Wars here and there) Westworld wasn't slow paced or character driven, though.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 21, 2023 19:11:39 GMT
Not really given how the writing isn't of exceptional quality and has to rely on its actors to try and do all the heavy lifting to elevate the material. The Flash is also talked about "enough" and it's one of the biggest box office flops in recent memory, the latest Indiana Jones is also talked about "enough" and it's looking to be the worst performing release under Disney this year. And neither Breaking Bad or The Wire were mini-series based on superhero comics that aired exclusively on a Disney streaming service, so your argument doesn't work as well as you would like it too. Actors elevating the material, so like True Detective or Star Wars.
Indy wasn't talked about much, except the usual suspects complaining about a woman being in the movie. Yes, BB and The Wire instead were on more easily accessible channels and despite this got low ratings which didn't say anything about their quality. So the same goes for Secret Invasion, except it has the additional difficulty of being on a smaller service not many have access to
Yes in regard to the second season of True Detective and most of the recent Star Wars media, no in regard to the first and third seasons of True Detective and other (and much more acclaimed) Star Wars media because the writing was actually of solid quality. Dial of Destiny was much talked about, and it's still the lowest performing Disney release of the year so far. Online chatter doesn't mean profit is guaranteed to be good. Neither AMC or HBO are more easily accessible than Disney+ (which is definitely not a smaller service) a customer has to pay money to be able to watch their media. Breaking Bad and The Wire had low ratings at first but they gradually improved as they went on. They also had the benefit of more than one season to tell a story and years to establish place in the culture, Secret Invasion is a mini-series that is reaching the end, it will never have the same impact as the former or the latter.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 21, 2023 19:12:09 GMT
Your dislike for Westworld does not and should not dismiss Skaathar response to you that they can enjoy television programs that are slow-paced and character-driven. That's not how the force works, to quote Han Solo. (Since you feel the need to reference Star Wars here and there) Westworld wasn't slow paced or character driven, though. Says who, you?
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2023 20:03:09 GMT
See, told you your standard pretty much consists of bad writing. That's really the only reason you'd consider Westworld as "pretentious tripe" yet praise the holy hell out of TFATWS's finale. But whether you consider it pretentious or not does not change the fact that I just proved you have no idea what my standards are. BTW, the 3rd season of Westworld is probably a better Black Widow show than the Black Widow movie. All that fluff about the Bicameral Mind, the two time periods, William going from meek to merciless in like 2 days at the Park. But then again the Nolans' heads have been up their own rears ever since they were praised for Memento.
Oh, so saying that just because someone is labeled a "Terrorist" doesn't make them irredeemably evil and never have any reasons for what they do is a bad thing to say?
I get it, you don't like Westworld (because you have questionable taste) but whether or not you like something wasn't the point of our conversation now was it? Are you completely incapable of sticking to the point of the conversation? Btw, this "so saying that just because someone is labeled a "Terrorist" doesn't make them irredeemably evil and never have any reasons for what they do" was never said in the actual show. That's a conversation that only took place in your head canon.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 21, 2023 20:09:01 GMT
Westworld wasn't slow paced or character driven, though. Says who, you? That's because Formersam doesn't know the difference between a show that's a slow-burn vs. something that's just plain slow. He also thinks "character-driven" equals "boring". So any show that's interesting automatically isn't character-driven in his book.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jul 21, 2023 20:40:23 GMT
It's honestly looking like Secret Invasion is another wasted potential storyline. Like Civil War before it.
It's a shame that Marvel is throwing this stuff away, because a lot of this could make for a great story arch within the MCU.
Here's hoping that whoever reboots the MCU will make better use of the material.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 22, 2023 4:05:39 GMT
Actors elevating the material, so like True Detective or Star Wars.
Indy wasn't talked about much, except the usual suspects complaining about a woman being in the movie. Yes, BB and The Wire instead were on more easily accessible channels and despite this got low ratings which didn't say anything about their quality. So the same goes for Secret Invasion, except it has the additional difficulty of being on a smaller service not many have access to
Yes in regard to the second season of True Detective and most of the recent Star Wars media, no in regard to the first and third seasons of True Detective and other (and much more acclaimed) Star Wars media because the writing was actually of solid quality. Dial of Destiny was much talked about, and it's still the lowest performing Disney release of the year so far. Online chatter doesn't mean profit is guaranteed to be good. Neither AMC or HBO are more easily accessible than Disney+ (which is definitely not a smaller service) a customer has to pay money to be able to watch their media. Breaking Bad and The Wire had low ratings at first but they gradually improved as they went on. They also had the benefit of more than one season to tell a story and years to establish place in the culture, Secret Invasion is a mini-series that is reaching the end, it will never have the same impact as the former or the latter. The 1st season of True Detective wasn't terribly well written either, it was elevated by McConaughey and Harrelsons' acting. Same with Star Wars, all of it. SW has never been terribly well written.
Dial of Destiny was much complained about, right from inception. It was always going to be a hard sell, given that Indy doesn't appeal to modern viewers.
AMC and HBO are both more accessible than D+, bigger than it too. It took BB years to get higher viewership (really it wasn't until towards the end) but the Wire was never high rated with viewership.
So you're just demonstrating how Secret Invasion has it harder than both shows.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 22, 2023 4:06:05 GMT
Westworld wasn't slow paced or character driven, though. Says who, you? The show itself. It stopped pretending to be character driven after S1.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 22, 2023 4:07:16 GMT
All that fluff about the Bicameral Mind, the two time periods, William going from meek to merciless in like 2 days at the Park. But then again the Nolans' heads have been up their own rears ever since they were praised for Memento.
Oh, so saying that just because someone is labeled a "Terrorist" doesn't make them irredeemably evil and never have any reasons for what they do is a bad thing to say?
I get it, you don't like Westworld (because you have questionable taste) but whether or not you like something wasn't the point of our conversation now was it? Are you completely incapable of sticking to the point of the conversation? Btw, this "so saying that just because someone is labeled a "Terrorist" doesn't make them irredeemably evil and never have any reasons for what they do" was never said in the actual show. That's a conversation that only took place in your head canon. I'm saying that Westworld isn't class.
Yes the show does say that. It doesn't spell it out for you but it gives you enough. Unfortunately the last 20 years of brainwashing make it a hard sell to viewers.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 22, 2023 4:08:25 GMT
It's honestly looking like Secret Invasion is another wasted potential storyline. Like Civil War before it. It's a shame that Marvel is throwing this stuff away, because a lot of this could make for a great story arch within the MCU. Here's hoping that whoever reboots the MCU will make better use of the material. To be fair, they'd never have made Skrull infiltration an entire Phase of storytelling in the movies, it would have messed up too much of the other continuing storylines in the separate movies.
Not that the original storyline was very good in the first place
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 22, 2023 4:43:30 GMT
I get it, you don't like Westworld (because you have questionable taste) but whether or not you like something wasn't the point of our conversation now was it? Are you completely incapable of sticking to the point of the conversation? Btw, this "so saying that just because someone is labeled a "Terrorist" doesn't make them irredeemably evil and never have any reasons for what they do" was never said in the actual show. That's a conversation that only took place in your head canon. I'm saying that Westworld isn't class.
Yes the show does say that. It doesn't spell it out for you but it gives you enough. Unfortunately the last 20 years of brainwashing make it a hard sell to viewers.
Well I'm glad you admit that that statement wasn't actually said in TFATWS but is instead your own interpretation. Not often you admit to stuff like that. I daresay you're actually maturing. But then again, you seem to be implying that Westworld isn't class but Secret Wars is. So maybe you're not that mature after all. Besides, why are we even discussing class? We're just talking about slow-burn and character-driven shows.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 22, 2023 6:46:06 GMT
Yes in regard to the second season of True Detective and most of the recent Star Wars media, no in regard to the first and third seasons of True Detective and other (and much more acclaimed) Star Wars media because the writing was actually of solid quality. Dial of Destiny was much talked about, and it's still the lowest performing Disney release of the year so far. Online chatter doesn't mean profit is guaranteed to be good. Neither AMC or HBO are more easily accessible than Disney+ (which is definitely not a smaller service) a customer has to pay money to be able to watch their media. Breaking Bad and The Wire had low ratings at first but they gradually improved as they went on. They also had the benefit of more than one season to tell a story and years to establish place in the culture, Secret Invasion is a mini-series that is reaching the end, it will never have the same impact as the former or the latter. The 1st season of True Detective wasn't terribly well written either, it was elevated by McConaughey and Harrelsons' acting. Same with Star Wars, all of it. SW has never been terribly well written.
Dial of Destiny was much complained about, right from inception. It was always going to be a hard sell, given that Indy doesn't appeal to modern viewers.
AMC and HBO are both more accessible than D+, bigger than it too. It took BB years to get higher viewership (really it wasn't until towards the end) but the Wire was never high rated with viewership.
So you're just demonstrating how Secret Invasion has it harder than both shows.
General consensus says otherwise, friend. If they weren't as good as you believe so, then they wouldn't be as well regarded today. Much complained means it was much talked about, thank you for supporting my argument. Indiana Jones is one of the most iconic heroes in film history, a new film should be making good bank but that is not the case for Dial of Destiny due to its unnecessarily large budget and mixed reception from critics and consumers alike. No, they aren't. You have to pay money to have them. And Disney+ has been a much talked about service since it launched a few years ago. No, I'm stating the facts - Secret Invasion isn't the crowd-pleasing success Disney was hoping for and it's coming to a close next week. It will never have the same impact as Breaking Bad or The Wire due its lackluster writing and shorter window of time between premiere and finale, meaning it cannot improve.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 22, 2023 6:47:04 GMT
The show itself. It stopped pretending to be character driven after S1. In other words, an opinion - not a fact.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 22, 2023 7:57:09 GMT
The show itself. It stopped pretending to be character driven after S1. In other words, an opinion - not a fact. He does admit it was character driven for at least the first season, meaning I supposedly shouldn't have liked the first season if Formersam's logic is to be believed.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 22, 2023 14:01:39 GMT
I'm saying that Westworld isn't class.
Yes the show does say that. It doesn't spell it out for you but it gives you enough. Unfortunately the last 20 years of brainwashing make it a hard sell to viewers.
Well I'm glad you admit that that statement wasn't actually said in TFATWS but is instead your own interpretation. Not often you admit to stuff like that. I daresay you're actually maturing. But then again, you seem to be implying that Westworld isn't class but Secret Wars is. So maybe you're not that mature after all. Besides, why are we even discussing class? We're just talking about slow-burn and character-driven shows. TFATWS says enough to get the point across. This isn't Nolan, where they stop everything to spell it out for you in a big awkward unnatural exposition infodump.
Westworld isn't class, the closest it came was S1 and even that needed cheap tricks to pretend to be profound.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 22, 2023 14:05:29 GMT
The 1st season of True Detective wasn't terribly well written either, it was elevated by McConaughey and Harrelsons' acting. Same with Star Wars, all of it. SW has never been terribly well written.
Dial of Destiny was much complained about, right from inception. It was always going to be a hard sell, given that Indy doesn't appeal to modern viewers.
AMC and HBO are both more accessible than D+, bigger than it too. It took BB years to get higher viewership (really it wasn't until towards the end) but the Wire was never high rated with viewership.
So you're just demonstrating how Secret Invasion has it harder than both shows.
General consensus says otherwise, friend. If they weren't as good as you believe so, then they wouldn't be as well regarded today. Much complained means it was much talked about, thank you for supporting my argument. Indiana Jones is one of the most iconic heroes in film history, a new film should be making good bank but that is not the case for Dial of Destiny due to its unnecessarily large budget and mixed reception from critics and consumers alike. No, they aren't. You have to pay money to have them. And Disney+ has been a much talked about service since it launched a few years ago. No, I'm stating the facts - Secret Invasion isn't the crowd-pleasing success Disney was hoping for and it's coming to a close next week. It will never have the same impact as Breaking Bad or The Wire due its lackluster writing and shorter window of time between premiere and finale, meaning it cannot improve. "General Consensus" is an empty word nowadays. Like I said, it was their acting that elevated the material along with Alexandra Daddario's naked body. Enough that viewers say "I don't care about the plot, I just like seeing the actors act".
Indy was Iconic for the 80s, Dial of Destiny shows he doesn't work in the modern era. It's the same problem Dirty Harry had when they did "The Dead Pool".
Yes they are, you get them as part of overall cable packages for multiple TV channels and/or free with new activation for a while. D+ isn't any of that and doesn't even have it's full material accessible outside of the US.
IE, it simply wasn't given the chance that either of those shows got.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 22, 2023 14:05:57 GMT
The show itself. It stopped pretending to be character driven after S1. In other words, an opinion - not a fact. Westworld after S1 was very much plot driven, not character driven.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 22, 2023 14:06:43 GMT
In other words, an opinion - not a fact. He does admit it was character driven for at least the first season, meaning I supposedly shouldn't have liked the first season if Formersam's logic is to be believed. It tried to be, but the Nolans' have never been very good with proper character storytelling. That's why so many characters are 1-Dimensional and Williams' development was so abrupt.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jul 22, 2023 15:01:44 GMT
Here's hoping that whoever reboots the MCU will make better use of the material.
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