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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 1, 2024 3:07:26 GMT
Marvelous how Christians can always find ways to use the fact of exploitation and maltreatment of other groups to further wallow in the masochistic pleasures of their own persecution fantasies. So glad that you are an atheist, amyghost , & do not have to ever experience having a place of worship be threatened. Unless & until you experience that (& obviously never will, unless you should ever change from being an atheist), you cannot comment on what we (my parish) went through, back then. Notice how these people can express so much outrage and sympathy for one group and then just blow off another group when it comes to hate and persecution.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Feb 1, 2024 8:38:09 GMT
Please, just don’t add water to that mill. Do not refer to races. Or prove the existence of ’races’. Without the least delay. If you can’t, apologise. Now. You're not owed an apology. If you don't like that, talk to the Admin. And stop trying to derail the thread. I beg to differ, dear. I have been posting with the op than you joined us. Again, truth, only truth, all of it. You did not prove the existence of races. I was hoping for a link to the bicycle song, at minimum. But chances are that you believe that people are ”racially” not identical. On that point you are not posting the truth, either. People are people. Only that. All of that. The f... with ”races” references. Chei... mit Rassenbezügen. Aux ch... les notions de race. P... della M... riferimento alle razze. Ks... hinsu shansu . I’m going to have an extended familly and a lot of educational work on my hands, I see. So be it. I also have some shopping to do. Couches. Again, stop using races references. Noch ein mal. Mō ichi do. Encore, encore. À nouveau... Truly, 💋
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Post by amyghost on Feb 1, 2024 11:57:11 GMT
To paraphrase Jane Austen, Whites have held the pen down the centuries. It's no surprise that their narrative dominates. It's also no surprise that at least some of them are sweating bullets these days over the fact that other hands are now holding, and using, their own pens; and other facets and versions of that dominant narrative are emerging. It's generally Whites who are the 'shrillest' in defending their own position on this. I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sure you don't, dear.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 1, 2024 12:01:34 GMT
Of course, the right-wing never makes up its own narratives. Even if this particular incident were to turn out false, it doesn't erase the fact that massive abuse took place in these schools. And of course, rightwing conservatives will continue in their denials that any of it took place. Certainly don't expect any of them to take the one step further thought that the whole motivation behind those schools might have been destructive, abusive, and just plain wrong in the first place. scholar.google.com/scholar?q=abuse+in+residential+schools&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholartI didn't say there was no abuse. I've said that just like orphanages, foster homes, boarding schools etc there will be some very bad, some very good but most in between. As I linked to some of the schools were certainly much better than life on the reservations. The whole narrative that all the schools were evil and everyone that worked there were evil, and all intentions were evil is also wrong. It is also extremely wrong that in the present day a global media narrative pushed by politicians such as the PM of Canada to lie about 215 children's bodies found. That is evil. Why did they do that and continue to do so? Possibly one reason might be found in the fact that the whole narrative was ignored by the country for so long. No...no one entity is generally all bad (with of course obvious and glaring exceptions)...but a system that was essentially grounded in eradicating a culture based in the patronizing rubric that it was all meant for those poor primitives own good, is far from being altogether a positive, either.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 1, 2024 12:17:20 GMT
You're not owed an apology. If you don't like that, talk to the Admin. And stop trying to derail the thread. I beg to differ, dear. I have been posting with the op than you joined us. Again, truth, only truth, all of it. You did not prove the existence of races. I was hoping for a link to the bicycle song, at minimum. But chances are that you believe that people are ”racially” not identical. On that point you are not posting the truth, either. People are people. Only that. All of that. The f... with ”races” references. Chei... mit Rassenbezügen. Aux ch... les notions de race. P... della M... riferimento alle razze. Ks... hinsu shansu . I’m going to have an extended familly and a lot of educational work on my hands, I see. So be it. I also have some shopping to do. Couches. Again, stop using races references. Noch ein mal. Mō ichi do. Encore, encore. À nouveau... Truly, 💋 I believe humans differ from one another in some significant ways, resemble closely one another in some significant ways, and that both states are valuable and to be treasured. I for one don't want a monochrome landscape where everyone is just alike. How this view gets construed as 'racism' is beyond me; I suppose it's the hysteria of these hysterical times. As you said in an earlier post, that's something you'll just have to deal with. There's nothing intrinsically evil in the word race--the concept has existed since ancient times (Greeks and Romans frequently categorized what today would be recognized as different ethnicities as actual discrete races of people--I hope the word 'ethnic' is not triggering for you also--and though they didn't always view those others favorably, they also learned there were aspects to those differing cultures/peoples that were valuable and could be applied with value to their own). The desire to create a 'one big undifferentiated human race' can just as easily lead to the thinking that finds eradication of cultures--and peoples--as a good as easily as the worst bigotry, once those who harbor those lofty ideals get busy with trying to iron out those wrinkles in earnest--these residential schools being one byproduct of that desire; as well as infinitely less benignly motivated variants--such as ethnic cleansing and the Holocaust. Things are seldom as simple as they seem, and motives frequently less pure.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 1, 2024 12:26:35 GMT
So glad that you are an atheist, amyghost , & do not have to ever experience having a place of worship be threatened. Unless & until you experience that (& obviously never will, unless you should ever change from being an atheist), you cannot comment on what we (my parish) went through, back then. Notice how these people can express so much outrage and sympathy for one group and then just blow off another group when it comes to hate and persecution. I discount the notion of widespread Christian persecution as largely overblown. When it happens it's deplorable, but when Christians try to position themselves as somehow being the most fiercely persecuted group around, I get annoyed. There is a definite and longtime tradition of Christians liking to view themselves as a uniquely persecuted people that's found a very comfortable niche in Christian conservative thinking today, and it's being trotted out with some frequency by those same conservatives who also wish to downplay the very real persecutions (current and historical) of other, non-Christian and/or non-White groups--sometimes at the hands of predominantly White Christians.
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transfuged
Sophomore
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Post by transfuged on Feb 1, 2024 16:37:59 GMT
I beg to differ, dear. I have been posting with the op than you joined us. Again, truth, only truth, all of it. You did not prove the existence of races. I was hoping for a link to the bicycle song, at minimum. But chances are that you believe that people are ”racially” not identical. On that point you are not posting the truth, either. People are people. Only that. All of that. The f... with ”races” references. Chei... mit Rassenbezügen. Aux ch... les notions de race. P... della M... riferimento alle razze. Ks... hinsu shansu . I’m going to have an extended familly and a lot of educational work on my hands, I see. So be it. I also have some shopping to do. Couches. Again, stop using races references. Noch ein mal. Mō ichi do. Encore, encore. À nouveau... Truly, 💋 I believe humans differ from one another in some significant ways, resemble closely one another in some significant ways, and that both states are valuable and to be treasured. I for one don't want a monochrome landscape where everyone is just alike. How this view gets construed as 'racism' is beyond me; I suppose it's the hysteria of these hysterical times. As you said in an earlier post, that's something you'll just have to deal with. There's nothing intrinsically evil in the word race--the concept has existed since ancient times (Greeks and Romans frequently categorized what today would be recognized as different ethnicities as actual discrete races of people--I hope the word 'ethnic' is not triggering for you also--and though they didn't always view those others favorably, they also learned there were aspects to those differing cultures/peoples that were valuable and could be applied with value to their own). The desire to create a 'one big undifferentiated human race' can just as easily lead to the thinking that finds eradication of cultures--and peoples--as a good as easily as the worst bigotry, once those who harbor those lofty ideals get busy with trying to iron out those wrinkles in earnest--these residential schools being one byproduct of that desire; as well as infinitely less benignly motivated variants--such as ethnic cleansing and the Holocaust. Things are seldom as simple as they seem, and motives frequently less pure. That is as clear as mud. What you call à concept , ”race” is the antithesis of thinking. You claim free thinking is yours. Please do not post with your head empty of thought. It is as bad as speaking with one mouth full. Show us you can think andt the h... with races. Pretty please. Hugs Truly T
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 1, 2024 16:51:00 GMT
I didn't say there was no abuse. I've said that just like orphanages, foster homes, boarding schools etc there will be some very bad, some very good but most in between. As I linked to some of the schools were certainly much better than life on the reservations. The whole narrative that all the schools were evil and everyone that worked there were evil, and all intentions were evil is also wrong. It is also extremely wrong that in the present day a global media narrative pushed by politicians such as the PM of Canada to lie about 215 children's bodies found. That is evil. Why did they do that and continue to do so? Possibly one reason might be found in the fact that the whole narrative was ignored by the country for so long. No...no one entity is generally all bad (with of course obvious and glaring exceptions)...but a system that was essentially grounded in eradicating a culture based in the patronizing rubric that it was all meant for those poor primitives own good, is far from being altogether a positive, either. How was the culture going to be eradicated when after the school term finishes, they go back to their reservation where they are free to practice their culture?
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 1, 2024 16:53:33 GMT
Notice how these people can express so much outrage and sympathy for one group and then just blow off another group when it comes to hate and persecution. I discount the notion of widespread Christian persecution as largely overblown. When it happens it's deplorable, but when Christians try to position themselves as somehow being the most fiercely persecuted group around, I get annoyed. There is a definite and longtime tradition of Christians liking to view themselves as a uniquely persecuted people that's found a very comfortable niche in Christian conservative thinking today, and it's being trotted out with some frequency by those same conservatives who also wish to downplay the very real persecutions (current and historical) of other, non-Christian and/or non-White groups--sometimes at the hands of predominantly White Christians. A long-winded way off saying you don't give a damn when certain groups suffer persecution, racism, discrimination etc.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 1, 2024 22:23:54 GMT
There are such things as points of view, and news can be, and often is, slanted to fit those viewpoints. And the current viewpoint of rightist conservatives is to simply deny that White populations have ever harmed people of other races and cultures in any way; and that whatever was forced upon these people was ultimately good for them and nothing but beneficial in the final analysis. And their publications tend to drive home this attitude repeatedly--and often in a quite shrill manner. I prefer boring accuracy to agenda-driven conservative-panic style journalism any day of the week. That is nonsense. The human rights abuses done to other cultures have been acknowledged throughout. Eg: Slavery in the South, etc. Nobody is denying that abused occurred at these residential schools. What is being refuted is the accusations of genocide, etc. Years ago, the south in America had pretty bad racial problems. Segregation and racial discrimination being something that people fought to get rid of by passing civil rights laws. Now you have segregation and racial discrimination in Canada 2024. Position 1, all areas of artificial intelligence. The call is open only to qualified individuals who self-identify as women, transgender, gender-fluid, non-binary, or Two-spirit.
Position 2, all areas of computer science. The call is open only to qualified individuals who self-identify as a member of a racialized minority.cs.uwaterloo.ca/nserc-crc-tier1SWIMMING -- BLACK FOLX SWIM local_offer $0.00 Come and enjoy the pool with other Black folx! This dedicated time can be used for lengths or recreation in the six available lanes for Fast, Medium and Recreational swimming. The diving well is open. Please follow the "Lane Swim Etiquette" and all Health Regulations as posted on the wall of the pool for the safety and enjoyment of all participants. These lessons will be taught by experienced black swimmers/instructors.warrior.uwaterloo.ca/Program/GetProgramDetails?courseId=9bdb69a7-b1a3-49a6-9abb-b0c7eea81d5avancouversun.com/opinion/black-only-race-segregation-on-canadian-universities/wcm/d411e312-4ac4-40e1-bdf7-c78eef4eb409
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Post by amyghost on Feb 2, 2024 12:06:37 GMT
I believe humans differ from one another in some significant ways, resemble closely one another in some significant ways, and that both states are valuable and to be treasured. I for one don't want a monochrome landscape where everyone is just alike. How this view gets construed as 'racism' is beyond me; I suppose it's the hysteria of these hysterical times. As you said in an earlier post, that's something you'll just have to deal with. There's nothing intrinsically evil in the word race--the concept has existed since ancient times (Greeks and Romans frequently categorized what today would be recognized as different ethnicities as actual discrete races of people--I hope the word 'ethnic' is not triggering for you also--and though they didn't always view those others favorably, they also learned there were aspects to those differing cultures/peoples that were valuable and could be applied with value to their own). The desire to create a 'one big undifferentiated human race' can just as easily lead to the thinking that finds eradication of cultures--and peoples--as a good as easily as the worst bigotry, once those who harbor those lofty ideals get busy with trying to iron out those wrinkles in earnest--these residential schools being one byproduct of that desire; as well as infinitely less benignly motivated variants--such as ethnic cleansing and the Holocaust. Things are seldom as simple as they seem, and motives frequently less pure. Thatt is as clear as mud. What you call à concept , ”race” is the antithesis of thinking. You claim free thinking is yours. Please do not post with your head empty of thought. It is as bad as speaking with one mouth full. Show us you can think andt the h... with races. Pretty please. Hugs Truly T I've said what I have to say on the subject, clearly and concisely. If it's incomprehensible to you, the lack is on your part, not mine. And as I don't play language police games I suspect we're going to have little more to say to one another of any value. Toodles.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 2, 2024 12:10:54 GMT
Possibly one reason might be found in the fact that the whole narrative was ignored by the country for so long. No...no one entity is generally all bad (with of course obvious and glaring exceptions)...but a system that was essentially grounded in eradicating a culture based in the patronizing rubric that it was all meant for those poor primitives own good, is far from being altogether a positive, either. How was the culture going to be eradicated when after the school term finishes, they go back to their reservation where they are free to practice their culture? How many of them did? The sad state of many reservations today could be something of a barometer as to some of the damage wrought by the attitudes behind the 'residential schools' ideal.
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Post by amyghost on Feb 2, 2024 12:15:01 GMT
That is nonsense. The human rights abuses done to other cultures have been acknowledged throughout. Eg: Slavery in the South, etc. Nobody is denying that abused occurred at these residential schools. What is being refuted is the accusations of genocide, etc. Years ago, the south in America had pretty bad racial problems. Segregation and racial discrimination being something that people fought to get rid of by passing civil rights laws. Now you have segregation and racial discrimination in Canada 2024. Position 1, all areas of artificial intelligence. The call is open only to qualified individuals who self-identify as women, transgender, gender-fluid, non-binary, or Two-spirit.
Position 2, all areas of computer science. The call is open only to qualified individuals who self-identify as a member of a racialized minority.cs.uwaterloo.ca/nserc-crc-tier1SWIMMING -- BLACK FOLX SWIM local_offer $0.00 Come and enjoy the pool with other Black folx! This dedicated time can be used for lengths or recreation in the six available lanes for Fast, Medium and Recreational swimming. The diving well is open. Please follow the "Lane Swim Etiquette" and all Health Regulations as posted on the wall of the pool for the safety and enjoyment of all participants. These lessons will be taught by experienced black swimmers/instructors.warrior.uwaterloo.ca/Program/GetProgramDetails?courseId=9bdb69a7-b1a3-49a6-9abb-b0c7eea81d5avancouversun.com/opinion/black-only-race-segregation-on-canadian-universities/wcm/d411e312-4ac4-40e1-bdf7-c78eef4eb409Males, and especially White males, have had these sorts of enclaves for exclusivity for decades; centuries, for that matter. Now they're going off the chain because other groups are engaging in anything remotely similar. Taking the long view, this storm of outrage is amusing in mildly instructive sort of way.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 2, 2024 18:05:11 GMT
Years ago, the south in America had pretty bad racial problems. Segregation and racial discrimination being something that people fought to get rid of by passing civil rights laws. Now you have segregation and racial discrimination in Canada 2024. Position 1, all areas of artificial intelligence. The call is open only to qualified individuals who self-identify as women, transgender, gender-fluid, non-binary, or Two-spirit.
Position 2, all areas of computer science. The call is open only to qualified individuals who self-identify as a member of a racialized minority.cs.uwaterloo.ca/nserc-crc-tier1SWIMMING -- BLACK FOLX SWIM local_offer $0.00 Come and enjoy the pool with other Black folx! This dedicated time can be used for lengths or recreation in the six available lanes for Fast, Medium and Recreational swimming. The diving well is open. Please follow the "Lane Swim Etiquette" and all Health Regulations as posted on the wall of the pool for the safety and enjoyment of all participants. These lessons will be taught by experienced black swimmers/instructors.warrior.uwaterloo.ca/Program/GetProgramDetails?courseId=9bdb69a7-b1a3-49a6-9abb-b0c7eea81d5avancouversun.com/opinion/black-only-race-segregation-on-canadian-universities/wcm/d411e312-4ac4-40e1-bdf7-c78eef4eb409Males, and especially White males, have had these sorts of enclaves for exclusivity for decades; centuries, for that matter. Now they're going off the chain because other groups are engaging in anything remotely similar. Taking the long view, this storm of outrage is amusing in mildly instructive sort of way. I figured that would be your response. People all across the world have had exclusive places for specific groups for centuries. Still do. In north America we have been taught segregation by race is bad. Discrimination by race is bad. Not only bad but against the law. I think segregation in the American south was a bad thing. I'm sure you feel the same. I think segregation today is bad. You however upon seeing a segregated swim class or dorms seem to have a couldn't care less flippant attitude. Why is that?
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Post by amyghost on Feb 3, 2024 12:36:47 GMT
Males, and especially White males, have had these sorts of enclaves for exclusivity for decades; centuries, for that matter. Now they're going off the chain because other groups are engaging in anything remotely similar. Taking the long view, this storm of outrage is amusing in mildly instructive sort of way. I figured that would be your response. People all across the world have had exclusive places for specific groups for centuries. Still do. In north America we have been taught segregation by race is bad. Discrimination by race is bad. Not only bad but against the law. I think segregation in the American south was a bad thing. I'm sure you feel the same. I think segregation today is bad. You however upon seeing a segregated swim class or dorms seem to have a couldn't care less flippant attitude. Why is that? Whites have benefitted from this same exclusivity and racism for centuries. Predictably they now express outrage, and want to invoke tenets of law, 'justice' and principle when the tide turns in the opposite direction. They go into hysterics, shouting that the End Of Western Civilization As We Know It is on the very doorstep. What will actually happen is that Whites will survive it, and will also have to survive the knowledge that the hegemony no longer belongs solely to them. Transitional pains coming about as a result of this will be acute, sometimes severe. But Whites won't be disappearing, nor will their institutions vanish from the face of the earth. They'll just have learned that realities they took for granted were not so real after all; their systems of legal and ethical principles will survive--they'll just now have to take into account that those systems really don't exist just for the service of the dominant majority, and they'll have to learn that racism and exclusivity really are as bad as they now go around canting that it is.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 3, 2024 19:17:50 GMT
I figured that would be your response. People all across the world have had exclusive places for specific groups for centuries. Still do. In north America we have been taught segregation by race is bad. Discrimination by race is bad. Not only bad but against the law. I think segregation in the American south was a bad thing. I'm sure you feel the same. I think segregation today is bad. You however upon seeing a segregated swim class or dorms seem to have a couldn't care less flippant attitude. Why is that? Whites have benefitted from this same exclusivity and racism for centuries. Predictably they now express outrage, and want to invoke tenets of law, 'justice' and principle when the tide turns in the opposite direction. They go into hysterics, shouting that the End Of Western Civilization As We Know It is on the very doorstep. What will actually happen is that Whites will survive it, and will also have to survive the knowledge that the hegemony no longer belongs solely to them. Transitional pains coming about as a result of this will be acute, sometimes severe. But Whites won't be disappearing, nor will their institutions vanish from the face of the earth. They'll just have learned that realities they took for granted were not so real after all; their systems of legal and ethical principles will survive--they'll just now have to take into account that those systems really don't exist just for the service of the dominant majority, and they'll have to learn that racism and exclusivity really are as bad as they now go around canting that it is. A long-winded way of showing your hypocrisy. To put it very simply, if segregation was bad in the American south before civil rights it is just as bad if not worse to have a black only swim class in 2024. Do we not all agree on that? It's a violation of civil rights and against the law. That goes for similar acts of discrimination and segregation. wpde.com/news/nation-world/calif-school-district-sued-over-racially-segregated-playdate-for-elementary-schoolers-oakland-unified-california-education-critical-race-theory-crisis-in-the-classroomEEOC had to come in and school Mark Cuban on discrimination.
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transfuged
Sophomore
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Post by transfuged on Feb 3, 2024 22:28:11 GMT
I don’t understand where the ”extremist left” comes from...🤯
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Post by amyghost on Feb 4, 2024 14:16:46 GMT
Whites have benefitted from this same exclusivity and racism for centuries. Predictably they now express outrage, and want to invoke tenets of law, 'justice' and principle when the tide turns in the opposite direction. They go into hysterics, shouting that the End Of Western Civilization As We Know It is on the very doorstep. What will actually happen is that Whites will survive it, and will also have to survive the knowledge that the hegemony no longer belongs solely to them. Transitional pains coming about as a result of this will be acute, sometimes severe. But Whites won't be disappearing, nor will their institutions vanish from the face of the earth. They'll just have learned that realities they took for granted were not so real after all; their systems of legal and ethical principles will survive--they'll just now have to take into account that those systems really don't exist just for the service of the dominant majority, and they'll have to learn that racism and exclusivity really are as bad as they now go around canting that it is. A long-winded way of showing your hypocrisy. To put it very simply, if segregation was bad in the American south before civil rights it is just as bad if not worse to have a black only swim class in 2024. Do we not all agree on that? It's a violation of civil rights and against the law. That goes for similar acts of discrimination and segregation. wpde.com/news/nation-world/calif-school-district-sued-over-racially-segregated-playdate-for-elementary-schoolers-oakland-unified-california-education-critical-race-theory-crisis-in-the-classroomEEOC had to come in and school Mark Cuban on discrimination. A longwinded way of showing your lack of historical perspective. Blacks were being lynched, terrorized, burnt out of their homes, denied voting rights and the most basic of civil liberties, and more during the period in question. Whites aren't experiencing anything remotely resembling this; but of course the fact of an all-Black swim team, to the rightwinger, is at least equal to that sort of violence if not worse. Conservatives sure do like to pull out the fainting couch quite a lot, I realize, but try to get some sort of grip on this before drawing comparisons between pre-Civil Rights Act southern Blacks and current-era Whites. The sort of pearl-clutching show of hysterics that tries to make the two somehow equivalent in heinousness is so absurd as to come across as surreal.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 4, 2024 17:47:16 GMT
A longwinded way of showing your lack of historical perspective. Blacks were being lynched, terrorized, burnt out of their homes, denied voting rights and the most basic of civil liberties, and more during the period in question. Whites aren't experiencing anything remotely resembling this; but of course the fact of an all-Black swim team, to the rightwinger, is at least equal to that sort of violence if not worse. Conservatives sure do like to pull out the fainting couch quite a lot, I realize, but try to get some sort of grip on this before drawing comparisons between pre-Civil Rights Act southern Blacks and current-era Whites. The sort of pearl-clutching show of hysterics that tries to make the two somehow equivalent in heinousness is so absurd as to come across as surreal. I have historical perspective. You do not have historical perspective. Segregation is seen as evil, discriminatory and racist both historically and presently. Something deemed too white is something that needs to be fixed today. It's typical of leftists to go on about diversity and inclusion, the horrors of segregation and racism while promoting and celebrating racism and segregation or at the very least downplaying it. people like that are massive hypocrites and racist.
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Post by OffTheBoatPsycho on Feb 4, 2024 17:52:40 GMT
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