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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Sept 27, 2023 19:37:23 GMT
By this thinking, Patrick Mahomes would have told the Chiefs to sit and spin. The Chiefs were ramshackle from SBIV to the Mahomes era. For their first 40 years, the Steelers were pitiful. That team from Massachusetts was nothing special until Brady-boo. It would make a QB a legend by turning a has been into a champ. Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana
Mahomes had no leverage as he wasn't a #1 pick nor was he viewed as some cant miss prospect. He was viewed more as a project. Plus the Chiefs at the time had a decent foundation in a good HC that had made the playoffs recently (if I remember correctly). They weren't devoid of talent. Most agreed he fell into a perfect position. Brady was a 6th rounder he REALLY had no leverage to determine where he could go. Bradshaw and Montana were before my time so no idea in regards to their circumstances. Teams like the Bears, Jets, and Browns constantly fuck up QBs they draft to know end and are constantly at the bottom of the league. Jets might be in the middle of a turn around as they have so much talent, yet may be cursed. Arizona has mostly been a cheap organization much like the Bengals were and seem to be without much structure to build sustained success. What im saying is that if I were Williams and as good as the hype suggests and likely the landslide #1 pick with some leverage to return to USC he could maneuver his way to go somewhere more favorable. With that type of talent I wouldn't be so quick to trust those 4 franchises with my development for 7 years of my career. (4 years + 5th year option + 2 franchise tags). They could still draft him and call his bluff of course but he has a small bit of leverage here. Still no clue how Eli managed to get out of SD to NY though. Elway had baseball as leverage. Its a very rare thing which is why it basically never happens. Caleb has a little bit of leverage, im interested to see if he uses it or not. No one has said "I'm not playing there, no matter what" since 1987. Eli did in 2004 but it was always a given that SD would draft him and then trade him to NY, Manning made concessions just so he could be #1 overall like Big Bro. I can't see Williams declaring for the draft and then saying he will not go to Chicago or wherever so trade me. He's not John Elway or Bo Jackson, he would have no options. He could hold out, say he will sit until 2025 and threaten the Bears with the thought of a wasted #1 overall. But I think the league and the Players union would strong arm him. The system seems to work well and no one wants to see the waters muddied. To not declare and go back is a huge risk. Remember Chad Kelly, Jim's nephew? He was thought to be a late first. He went back to school and tore his ACL. Became Mr Irrelevant. He's is the highest paid player in the league now. The CFL
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Post by Shane Falco on Sept 27, 2023 19:50:27 GMT
Mahomes had no leverage as he wasn't a #1 pick nor was he viewed as some cant miss prospect. He was viewed more as a project. Plus the Chiefs at the time had a decent foundation in a good HC that had made the playoffs recently (if I remember correctly). They weren't devoid of talent. Most agreed he fell into a perfect position. Brady was a 6th rounder he REALLY had no leverage to determine where he could go. Bradshaw and Montana were before my time so no idea in regards to their circumstances. Teams like the Bears, Jets, and Browns constantly fuck up QBs they draft to know end and are constantly at the bottom of the league. Jets might be in the middle of a turn around as they have so much talent, yet may be cursed. Arizona has mostly been a cheap organization much like the Bengals were and seem to be without much structure to build sustained success. What im saying is that if I were Williams and as good as the hype suggests and likely the landslide #1 pick with some leverage to return to USC he could maneuver his way to go somewhere more favorable. With that type of talent I wouldn't be so quick to trust those 4 franchises with my development for 7 years of my career. (4 years + 5th year option + 2 franchise tags). They could still draft him and call his bluff of course but he has a small bit of leverage here. Still no clue how Eli managed to get out of SD to NY though. Elway had baseball as leverage. Its a very rare thing which is why it basically never happens. Caleb has a little bit of leverage, im interested to see if he uses it or not. No one has said "I'm not playing there, no matter what" since 1987. Eli did in 2004 but it was always a given that SD would draft him and then trade him to NY, Manning made concessions just so he could be #1 overall like Big Bro. I can't see Williams declaring for the draft and then saying he will not go to Chicago or wherever so trade me. He's not John Elway or Bo Jackson, he would have no options. He could hold out, say he will sit until 2025 and threaten the Bears with the thought of a wasted #1 overall. But I think the league and the Players union would strong arm him. The system seems to work well and no one wants to see the waters muddied. To not declare and go back is a huge risk. Remember Chad Kelly, Jim's nephew? He was thought to be a late first. He went back to school and tore his ACL. Became Mr Irrelevant. He's is the highest paid player in the league now. The CFL
I may be confused on the point you're trying to make. We are both agreeing its a rare thing. Williams leverage here is whether or not to declare for the draft at all. If say the Bears held that #1 pick I personally would not declare unless they traded it away before I had to make my decision. Williams wouldn't be part of the NFLPA yet to be strong armed into anything. Plus, what would stop Williams from not declaring and just sitting out the college season to train for next draft? He would very likely still go #1 unless some new phenom prospect pops up. Williams could still get paid for appearances im sure even not playing for USC. I also have no clue who Chad Kelly is. If he was indeed a projected late first than he has nothing to do with what Williams could do now. A late first rounder could be drafted by multiple teams. You would have no stance on refusal to play for them like Williams can by knowing exactly what team would draft him at #1. Williams can make his decision before the draft ever happens. Can I see him making these decisions? No clue. I dont know him. If I were him though I would think long and hard about it. I think with college money now it will be a lot easier for guys to stay out of the draft if they are projected #1 and not wanting to go to said team with pick #1. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Sept 27, 2023 20:02:24 GMT
The window for declaring for the draft comes rapidly after the end of the season. Might not be enough time to demand an organization to trade out of #1 overall. And they wouldn't get shit with the other teams knowing that Williams has them over a barrel. And to think that he would sit out for a year and still be #1 is unrealistic. He isn't going to make anymore ads for Wendy's if he's not playing anywhere at all.
I brought up Chad Kelly to bring up that going back to school doesn't always work. Huge risk, Williams could tear his ACL.
Bottom line is, if Caleb Williams declares for the draft, he's going to sign with the team that drafts him. Baseball players have options, football players do not
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Post by Shane Falco on Sept 27, 2023 20:36:04 GMT
The window for declaring for the draft comes rapidly after the end of the season. Might not be enough time to demand an organization to trade out of #1 overall. And they wouldn't get shit with the other teams knowing that Williams has them over a barrel. And to think that he would sit out for a year and still be #1 is unrealistic. He isn't going to make anymore ads for Wendy's if he's not playing anywhere at all. I brought up Chad Kelly to bring up that going back to school doesn't always work. Huge risk, Williams could tear his ACL. Bottom line is, if Caleb Williams declares for the draft, he's going to sign with the team that drafts him. Baseball players have options, football players do not Agree to disagree there. If Williams is this generational can't miss level prospect he is hyped up to be at the QB position then there should be like .01% chance a prospect better than him appears within a year. Now if you're a GM that refuses to draft him because he sat out then that GM should be fired. |
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 5, 2024 13:55:56 GMT
It's the Bears. That organization is in freefall and they're fighting fires everywhere. Coaching staff is a shambles even disregarding the on-field product. I'll give the Bears credit because it looked like they were going to have an all-time horrible season but they managed to end the year fairly respectably and they'll STILL wind up with the first pick. |
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Tim05
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Post by Tim05 on Jan 5, 2024 14:21:26 GMT
The Williams stuff is fascinating, because I've heard "rumors" all over the place about the guy - he won't come to Chicago, he will go back to USC rather than play for a team he doesn't like, he wants to be part owner of whatever team drafts him. I don't know the truth of it all, but I've seen that multiple times, and if true, I'm worried to draft him.
I don't know what a #1 pick thinks is going to happen. It goes to the worst team in the league, every single year. So if you want to be #1, odds are, you're going to a shitty team. This year, is one of the rare years that that #1 isn't going to the worst team. The Bears have some nice infrastructure in place for a quarterback to come into - a decent tight end they just paid, a true #1 receiver with capital to add an impact rookie behind a quarterback they draft, a rookie tackle that looks to be a future pro bowler, and a solid all-around defense. It's really one of the better #1 overall pick situations to walk into in recent history.
The Bears could also end their season by winning 6 out of their last 7 games, with 3 losses coming in historically imporbable collapses. Had they won even one of those highly improbable losses, they'd be playing for a playoff spot right now. What does Williams want? William's supposed "list" includes: Cowboys, 49ers, Giants, Vikings, and Raiders. Let's obviously cross the 49ers and Cowboys off, that is not happening. The Giants seem very highly unlikely, given they just gave Daniel Jones a bag of money. The Vikings and Raiders are probably picking 10th or worse, so pretty difficult to even entertain a trade up to 1, but it can happen, like it did last year.
It's weird to me when guys want to dictate where they go in the NFL. The NFL is the one league where last-to-first turnarounds happen basically every year. Bad teams turn good and good teams bad a lot faster than the other 3 major American sports
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Post by mtbg on Jan 5, 2024 14:25:29 GMT
It's the Bears. That organization is in freefall and they're fighting fires everywhere. Coaching staff is a shambles even disregarding the on-field product. I'll give the Bears credit because it looked like they were going to have an all-time horrible season but they managed to end the year fairly respectably and they'll STILL wind up with the first pick. I agree. Eberflus has done a good job. Earlier in the year, I would've bet Harbaugh to his old team with Williams to Harrison Jr as they would have 2 of the top 3 picks. If I was a Bears fan, that would be the dream. Eberflus turned them around though so that dream got shot to Hell. |
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Post by sdm3 on Jan 5, 2024 14:27:17 GMT
The Bears have some nice infrastructure in place for a quarterback to come into - a decent tight end they just paid, a true #1 receiver with capital to add an impact rookie behind a quarterback they draft, a rookie tackle that looks to be a future pro bowler, and a solid all-around defense. It's really one of the better #1 overall pick situations to walk into in recent history. On the other hand, I've been to Chicago in the winter and oof, playing in an open-air stadium with that weather doesn't sound great lol. |
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Tim05
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Post by Tim05 on Jan 5, 2024 14:32:03 GMT
The Bears have some nice infrastructure in place for a quarterback to come into - a decent tight end they just paid, a true #1 receiver with capital to add an impact rookie behind a quarterback they draft, a rookie tackle that looks to be a future pro bowler, and a solid all-around defense. It's really one of the better #1 overall pick situations to walk into in recent history. On the other hand, I've been to Chicago in the winter and oof, playing in an open-air stadium with that weather doesn't sound great lol. True, but then one of his other teams named is the Giants, so more or less the same situation as Chicago weather-wise. The Bears will also be building a new stadium, and probably won't leave the city of Chicago until 2027 is my guess? But the plan is there, and they confirmed the new stadium will have a permanent roof. Who knows if who they draft would still be around for that, but something to consider |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 5, 2024 14:39:17 GMT
He's going to do a Doug Flutie/Warren Moon and go north and play for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats
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Post by NJtoTX on Jan 6, 2024 17:11:52 GMT
He's going to do a Doug Flutie/Warren Moon and go north and play for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats Or he'll return to USC for his 6th year. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jan 6, 2024 17:29:20 GMT
He's going to do a Doug Flutie/Warren Moon and go north and play for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats Or he'll return to USC for his 6th year. Williams sent a birthday greeting to Bears owner Virginia McCaskey (who 101 years old) on Twitter
Schmoozing?
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