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Post by Rodney Farber on Jan 9, 2024 1:31:27 GMT
The reason Our Lord never Mentioned homosexuality or abortion is because neither issues were brought to Him. ... So, what you're saying is that the Lord is not all knowing as we were led to believe in Sunday School.
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Post by amyghost on Jan 16, 2024 11:44:58 GMT
I have to admit I don't see the attraction. He comes off as arrogant and humorless most of the time, as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by clusium on Jan 16, 2024 19:06:24 GMT
I have to admit I don't see the attraction. He comes off as arrogant and humorless most of the time, as far as I'm concerned. Ah yes. Nothing can be more arrogant than this: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." As for humour; if want your Lord have humour, then go follow a stand-up comedian or perhaps even a circus clown.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 16, 2024 19:59:08 GMT
I have to admit I don't see the attraction. He comes off as arrogant and humorless most of the time, as far as I'm concerned. Ah yes. Nothing can be more arrogant than this: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. etc This can: Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Matthew 10:37–39. It depends who you ask, For some the Bible has quite a few unintentional laughs. And then we have this about your alleged deity Psalm 2:4 "He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision." Psalm 37 "The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them; but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming." So he seems he does offer (admittedly a somewhat bitter or is it schadenfreude?) smile sometimes. But, as we are supposedly made in his image, and humour plays such a part in humanity's heritage, you'd think he'd at least lighten the mood a few quips. After all, Jesus had one at all our expense with his “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”...
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Post by amyghost on Jan 17, 2024 0:48:02 GMT
As for humour; if want your Lord have humour, then go follow a stand-up comedian or perhaps even a circus clown.
I see nothing inherently wrong or evil in a sense of humor. Buddha was said to have employed humor in his teachings, so why would it be wrong for Jesus to have done so?
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Post by clusium on Jan 17, 2024 0:49:32 GMT
Ah yes. Nothing can be more arrogant than this: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. etc This can: Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Matthew 10:37–39. It depends who you ask, For some the Bible has quite a few unintentional laughs. And then we have this about your alleged deity Psalm 2:4 "He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision." Psalm 37 "The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them; but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming." So he seems he does offer (admittedly a somewhat bitter or is it schadenfreude?) smile sometimes. But, as we are supposedly made in his image, and humour plays such a part in humanity's heritage, you'd think he'd at least lighten the mood a few quips. After all, Jesus had one at all our expense with his “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”... We also know what Our Lord Jesus' Fate was: A Cruel Death upon a Cross. What Christ Was Teaching here was, discipleship with Him is no walk in the park or on the beach. It was (& is) a full commitment. Nobody said that God Does not Smile sometimes; pretty sure He Smiles a lot.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 17, 2024 19:53:44 GMT
We also know what Our Lord Jesus' Fate was: A Cruel Death upon a Cross. What Christ Was Teaching here was, discipleship with Him is no walk in the park or on the beach. It was (& is) a full commitment. I see you do not deny those lines of arrogance though. QED. Christ's death was, strictly speaking, a suicide since he could have saved himself. Or, being one third of God of course He could not really ever die. Well, we have those two examples. Other moments are harder to find.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 17, 2024 20:39:06 GMT
As for humour; if want your Lord have humour, then go follow a stand-up comedian or perhaps even a circus clown.I see nothing inherently wrong or evil in a sense of humor. Buddha was said to have employed humor in his teachings, so why would it be wrong for Jesus to have done so? Quite so ; I am reminded of the possible words of Jesus when on the cross "Hey, Mary! I can see your house from here!"
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Post by clusium on Jan 18, 2024 0:03:48 GMT
As for humour; if want your Lord have humour, then go follow a stand-up comedian or perhaps even a circus clown.I see nothing inherently wrong or evil in a sense of humor. Buddha was said to have employed humor in his teachings, so why would it be wrong for Jesus to have done so? What makes you think that the Lord Jesus Did not Employ humour, from time-to-time, during His Public Ministry? Maybe He Did, and it goes over our modern day heads? In this website here, someone noted the humour in Our Lord Saying that "it would be much easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than a rich man try to enter the Kingdom Of God (St. Luke chapter 18, verse 25)." Did Jesus Employ Humour?
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Post by clusium on Jan 18, 2024 0:10:36 GMT
We also know what Our Lord Jesus' Fate was: A Cruel Death upon a Cross. What Christ Was Teaching here was, discipleship with Him is no walk in the park or on the beach. It was (& is) a full commitment. I see you do not deny those lines of arrogance though. QED. Christ's death was, strictly speaking, a suicide since he could have saved himself. Or, being one third of God of course He could not really ever die. Well, we have those two examples. Other moments are harder to find. No, I wouldn't say that I wasn't denying arrogance. I was pointing out what Our Lord Jesus Was Saying the Commitment needed to Be Our Lord's Disciple: That means Giving EVERYTHING, INCLUDING 100% OF YOUR LIFE for it. Suicide is when you take your own life, & is usually done in a bid to escape whatever kind of personal suffering that a person may be enduring. The Kind Of Death that the Lord Jesus Had Endured, was not the kind of choice very many suicidal people would choose. Death means separation of the body & the soul. So yes, Our Lord Jesus Did Die.
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Post by amyghost on Jan 18, 2024 0:31:36 GMT
As for humour; if want your Lord have humour, then go follow a stand-up comedian or perhaps even a circus clown.I see nothing inherently wrong or evil in a sense of humor. Buddha was said to have employed humor in his teachings, so why would it be wrong for Jesus to have done so? What makes you think that the Lord Jesus Did not Employ humour, from time-to-time, during His Public Ministry? Maybe He Did, and it goes over our modern day heads? In this website here, someone noted the humour in Our Lord Saying that "it would be much easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than a rich man try to enter the Kingdom Of God (St. Luke chapter 18, verse 25)." Did Jesus Employ Humour?If I recall correctly, Gore Vidal found that quote pretty humorous as well, though I suspect not for quite the same reason...
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 18, 2024 22:28:32 GMT
No, I wouldn't say that I wasn't denying arrogance. Just as well given that verse, isn't it? Unfortunately but I need a lot of my life to give for other things, like earning money to live, and loving my family and so on. Also I would be wary of giving such a commitment to what is essentially an unproven project. Sorry but JC was not a usual case. If we say that Christ could have saved himself but chose not to, that is a form of suicide. Also if he was one third of God or however the Trinity is spun, then no part of God can ever really die. Or we would be praying to 2 thirds of a deity.
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Post by clusium on Jan 19, 2024 1:09:49 GMT
No, I wouldn't say that I wasn't denying arrogance. Just as well given that verse, isn't it? Unfortunately but I need a lot of my life to give for other things, like earning money to live, and loving my family and so on. Also I would be wary of giving such a commitment to what is essentially an unproven project. Sorry but JC was not a usual case. If we say that Christ could have saved himself but chose not to, that is a form of suicide. Also if he was one third of God or however the Trinity is spun, then no part of God can ever really die. Or we would be praying to 2 thirds of a deity. I gave the point that Our Lord Was Making, regarding that Bible verse. If you understood, you would realize that it wasn't arrogance. You just stated why you would not be a disciple for Our Lord Jesus Christ. There are parallels to your argument with the challenge that satan gave to Our Lord Jesus in the wilderness. Among other things, the devil dared Christ to Throw Himself off the top of the temple, in order to show that God Would Save Him. It was the same thing that those who mocked Him, while He was Dying on the Cross; "Let Him Come off the Cross, so that we will see and believe Him." (St. Matthew chapter 27, verse 42)
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 19, 2024 1:21:50 GMT
Just as well given that verse, isn't it? Unfortunately but I need a lot of my life to give for other things, like earning money to live, and loving my family and so on. Also I would be wary of giving such a commitment to what is essentially an unproven project. Sorry but JC was not a usual case. If we say that Christ could have saved himself but chose not to, that is a form of suicide. Also if he was one third of God or however the Trinity is spun, then no part of God can ever really die. Or we would be praying to 2 thirds of a deity. I gave the point that Our Lord Was Making, regarding that Bible verse. If you understood, you would realize that it wasn't arrogance. You just stated why you would not be a disciple for Our Lord Jesus Christ. There are parallels to your argument with the challenge that satan gave to Our Lord Jesus in the wilderness. Among other things, the devil dared Christ to Throw Himself off the top of the temple, in order to show that God Would Save Him. It was the same thing that those who mocked Him, while He was Dying on the Cross; "Let Him Come off the Cross, so that we will see and believe Him." (St. Matthew chapter 27, verse 42) The views of your scriptures would only matter or carry weight if I placed any value on them and took their central claims seriously. And didn't you accept by implication that your Jesus was sort of arrogant just a message or two back? As for Jesus not choosing to save himself, well, that really confirms the interpretation of suicide by determining one's own demise, does it not?
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Jan 19, 2024 2:03:16 GMT
I gave the point that Our Lord Was Making, regarding that Bible verse. If you understood, you would realize that it wasn't arrogance. You just stated why you would not be a disciple for Our Lord Jesus Christ. There are parallels to your argument with the challenge that satan gave to Our Lord Jesus in the wilderness. Among other things, the devil dared Christ to Throw Himself off the top of the temple, in order to show that God Would Save Him. It was the same thing that those who mocked Him, while He was Dying on the Cross; "Let Him Come off the Cross, so that we will see and believe Him." (St. Matthew chapter 27, verse 42) The views of your scriptures would only matter or carry weight if I placed any value on them and took their central claims seriously. And didn't you accept by implication that your Jesus was sort of arrogant just a message or two back? As for Jesus not choosing to save himself, well, that really confirms the interpretation of suicide by determining one's own demise, does it not? Isn't suicide a sin, according to Catholics?
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Jan 19, 2024 2:20:39 GMT
What if The holy Mary had taken him literaly and cast a stone at him ?
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Post by clusium on Jan 19, 2024 2:24:43 GMT
I gave the point that Our Lord Was Making, regarding that Bible verse. If you understood, you would realize that it wasn't arrogance. You just stated why you would not be a disciple for Our Lord Jesus Christ. There are parallels to your argument with the challenge that satan gave to Our Lord Jesus in the wilderness. Among other things, the devil dared Christ to Throw Himself off the top of the temple, in order to show that God Would Save Him. It was the same thing that those who mocked Him, while He was Dying on the Cross; "Let Him Come off the Cross, so that we will see and believe Him." (St. Matthew chapter 27, verse 42) The views of your scriptures would only matter or carry weight if I placed any value on them and took their central claims seriously. And didn't you accept by implication that your Jesus was sort of arrogant just a message or two back? As for Jesus not choosing to save himself, well, that really confirms the interpretation of suicide by determining one's own demise, does it not? No I did not. I responded with what Our Lord Jesus Knew what His Fate would be. And there is a difference between sacrificing yourself & suicide.
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Post by amyghost on Jan 19, 2024 11:51:55 GMT
The views of your scriptures would only matter or carry weight if I placed any value on them and took their central claims seriously.
^^This^^
It really boils down to that central issue. Either you surrender up your credulity to accepting the claims Jesus made about himself, and thus grant him full rights to present himself as he does; or you follow the way of the freethinker who demands proof of outlandish claims, and you respond to Jesus' (and his followers) assertions with the simple, immutable fact that if they cannot provide such proofs, their claims can't be held as valid--or anything other than arrogant assertion. And since the freethinker doesn't accept a book of secondhand tribal tales as 'proof' of anything, he or she is going to fail to find Jesus as much more than a very egotistical young man, albeit one who may have said some wise things, and albeit that a fair number of those wise things had been posited in earlier, more philosophically based, doctrines.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 19, 2024 13:47:09 GMT
And there is a difference between sacrificing yourself & suicide. I agree. If someone dies throwing themselves in front of a bus to save a child, it would be very odd for a newspaper to describe that act as a suicide even if it's technically the case. Christ's death in Christian doctrine is essentially self-sacrifice on a massive scale. Of course, if one rejects that doctrine then Christ didn't really save anyone by dying, but then he probably lacked the power to save himself either so it still seems odd to think of it as a suicide. Edit: Probably also relevant that Christ doesn't actually force anyone to kill him - again is submitting to being killed generally regarded as suicide? I think extreme pacifists who refuse to defend themselves from being attacked would have to be labelled as suicidal too in that case.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 19, 2024 14:14:56 GMT
The views of your scriptures would only matter or carry weight if I placed any value on them and took their central claims seriously. ^^This^^ It really boils down to that central issue. Either you surrender up your credulity to accepting the claims Jesus made about himself, and thus grant him full rights to present himself as he does; or you follow the way of the freethinker who demands proof of outlandish claims, and you respond to Jesus' (and his followers) assertions with the simple, immutable fact that if they cannot provide such proofs, their claims can't be held as valid--or anything other than arrogant assertion. And since the freethinker doesn't accept a book of secondhand tribal tales as 'proof' of anything, he or she is going to fail to find Jesus as much more than a very egotistical young man, albeit one who may have said some wise things, and albeit that a fair number of those wise things had been posited in earlier, more philosophically based, doctrines. Of course, the 'freethinker' and even to some extent the Christian can question some of the words attributed to Jesus in the Gospels and what is meant by them.
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