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Post by novastar6 on Feb 25, 2024 7:49:34 GMT
Some people are going to think this is a bunch of crap, but other people are going to think this kind of explains all the times that patients unexpectedly, for no known reason, just suddenly 'go south', based solely on the word of the doctor, or why so many times doctors operate on the wrong body part, or give a patient a medicine their file explicitly says they're allergic to, etc.
Some of the comments from the video.
We know a family that the same thing happened to their teenage daughter after a car accident, oh the doctor just KNEW she was brain dead and would NEVER recover, blah blah blah, pull the plug because they don't have insurance, so the bed can go to someone richer. Afterwards the family found out she was in fact NOT brain dead, and yes WOULD have recovered given time. How many other people have known about a similar incident?
That one's just weird as hell.
To refresh people's memories, the VA hospitals especially don't have a good reputation of taking adequate care of their patients and a lot of them die, 'suddenly', 'unexpectedly', etc., of course the fact some of them have hired serial killers in the past didn't help either. But it also begs the question, for many years when hospitals KNEW a doctor/nurse was killing patients, or at least noticing one particular had MORE deaths per shift than anybody else, they didn't do anything to stop it, and instead just sent the murderer to go do the exact same thing at another hospital with NO warning to the staff what was coming. And they blame it on the medical bureaucracy, etc., but does that even make sense? Or does THIS suddenly seem a little more credible than the industry of 'healing' going 'well we CAN'T turn a serial killer over to the cops because they're one of us and the white coat wall won't let us do that, so just let them kill more patients somewhere else and it doesn't have to be our problem anymore'? Either way is bad, but seriously, if doctors are going to argue ethics and red tape trump patients being murdered, why does or should anybody trust them?
All the while, I often think about this video.
And I remember when it was new, comments were flooded with oh what kind of nurse PRAYS for her patient? That's stupid as hell because doctors and nurses are the ones that make it all happen, blah blah blah. People don't seem to realize that's precisely the kind of nurse everybody wants. And since this is reality more often than anybody wants to admit,
most good nurses probably pray a whole damn lot.
Of course that poses yet another question, since doctor's error is the 3rd leading cause of death just under heart disease and cancer, is it really just unfortunate 'error' or is some of it intentional? And how much actually is that 'some'?
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Post by amyghost on Mar 6, 2024 14:54:24 GMT
I doubt if anyone's going to win a medical malpractice lawsuit based on the premise that 'the devil made Doc do it'.
You'd be right in saying that I suspect the foregoing videos are a load of crap.
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Post by novastar6 on Mar 8, 2024 8:14:10 GMT
I doubt if anyone's going to win a medical malpractice lawsuit based on the premise that 'the devil made Doc do it'. You'd be right in saying that I suspect the foregoing videos are a load of crap.
So doctors' error being the 3rd leading cause of death in a 1st world country is just because they're all a bunch of incompetents who don't know/care what they're doing? Because either way you look at it, the numbers don't suggest they're trying their hardest to save lives and give their patients the best care possible, especially when you delve into areas of 'gave the patient a medication they're allergic to, which is in their file, which nobody can find or read', 'didn't listen', 'didn't monitor the patient', etc., that doesn't sound very competent.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 8, 2024 11:35:59 GMT
I doubt if anyone's going to win a medical malpractice lawsuit based on the premise that 'the devil made Doc do it'. You'd be right in saying that I suspect the foregoing videos are a load of crap.
So doctors' error being the 3rd leading cause of death in a 1st world country is just because they're all a bunch of incompetents who don't know/care what they're doing? Because either way you look at it, the numbers don't suggest they're trying their hardest to save lives and give their patients the best care possible, especially when you delve into areas of 'gave the patient a medication they're allergic to, which is in their file, which nobody can find or read', 'didn't listen', 'didn't monitor the patient', etc., that doesn't sound very competent.
Incompetence isn't caused by Satan-worship, demons, or witchcraft--unless you live in the 13th century. A better form of healthcare would help. Socialized medicine, which I'm sure you're staunchly against, could be part of the solution to an overburdened, over-expensive system. However, we all know that Socialism is one of the original tools of The Devil.
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Post by novastar6 on Mar 8, 2024 14:46:04 GMT
So doctors' error being the 3rd leading cause of death in a 1st world country is just because they're all a bunch of incompetents who don't know/care what they're doing? Because either way you look at it, the numbers don't suggest they're trying their hardest to save lives and give their patients the best care possible, especially when you delve into areas of 'gave the patient a medication they're allergic to, which is in their file, which nobody can find or read', 'didn't listen', 'didn't monitor the patient', etc., that doesn't sound very competent.
Incompetence isn't caused by Satan-worship, demons, or witchcraft--unless you live in the 13th century. A better form of healthcare would help. Socialized medicine, which I'm sure you're staunchly against, could be part of the solution to an overburdened, over-expensive system. However, we all know that Socialism is one of the original tools of The Devil.
The way that worked last time was one group of people died broke and homeless because in addition to paying for their own medical needs, they had to buy other people's insurance so the second group got it practically for 'free'. Doctors aren't going to be incentivized to do a better job for less money, so the only way that socialized medicine would work would be if everybody had to pay even more money than they already are which they already can't afford.
Meanwhile incompetence would certainly serve as a clever disguise for evil, wouldn't it? History's full of it, 'I tortured and killed people because I was just following orders', 'I'm not responsible for murder because I ate too many Twinkies', etc.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 8, 2024 18:23:36 GMT
I doubt if anyone's going to win a medical malpractice lawsuit based on the premise that 'the devil made Doc do it'. You'd be right in saying that I suspect the foregoing videos are a load of crap.
So doctors' error being the 3rd leading cause of death in a 1st world country is just because they're all a bunch of incompetents who don't know/care what they're doing? Because either way you look at it, the numbers don't suggest they're trying their hardest to save lives and give their patients the best care possible, especially when you delve into areas of 'gave the patient a medication they're allergic to, which is in their file, which nobody can find or read', 'didn't listen', 'didn't monitor the patient', etc., that doesn't sound very competent.
A poor doctor is a more likely cause of death than an active devil.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 8, 2024 18:35:50 GMT
Doctors aren't going to be incentivized to do a better job for less money, so the only way that socialized medicine would work would be if everybody had to pay even more money than they already are which they already can't afford. This is an unfounded statement as usual and, speaking for myself, I would rather live (as I do) in a country with universal healthcare working en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care than one where treatment comes to an end when, say, the insurance runs out. If one is following orders in this example such a murderous efficiency would actually be the opposite of incompetence. It is more likely to be, from some at least, "The killing was justified by what God wants" See how I brought the exchange back to religion and relevance just there?
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Post by amyghost on Mar 9, 2024 0:34:03 GMT
Incompetence isn't caused by Satan-worship, demons, or witchcraft--unless you live in the 13th century. A better form of healthcare would help. Socialized medicine, which I'm sure you're staunchly against, could be part of the solution to an overburdened, over-expensive system. However, we all know that Socialism is one of the original tools of The Devil.
The way that worked last time was one group of people died broke and homeless because in addition to paying for their own medical needs, they had to buy other people's insurance so the second group got it practically for 'free'. Doctors aren't going to be incentivized to do a better job for less money, so the only way that socialized medicine would work would be if everybody had to pay even more money than they already are which they already can't afford.
Meanwhile incompetence would certainly serve as a clever disguise for evil, wouldn't it? History's full of it, 'I tortured and killed people because I was just following orders', 'I'm not responsible for murder because I ate too many Twinkies', etc.
? Cite a source for this 'story'. Not a YouTube video, please. A documented, verifiable, preferably print, source. Meanwhile, I suspect plain old mistakes are more prevalent than 'evil', though I'm aware some minds see evil under every overturned rock.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Mar 15, 2024 2:48:31 GMT
Some people are going to think this is a bunch of crap, but other people are going to think this kind of explains all the times that patients unexpectedly, for no known reason, just suddenly 'go south', based solely on the word of the doctor, or why so many times doctors operate on the wrong body part, or give a patient a medicine their file explicitly says they're allergic to, etc.
Some of the comments from the video.
We know a family that the same thing happened to their teenage daughter after a car accident, oh the doctor just KNEW she was brain dead and would NEVER recover, blah blah blah, pull the plug because they don't have insurance, so the bed can go to someone richer. Afterwards the family found out she was in fact NOT brain dead, and yes WOULD have recovered given time. How many other people have known about a similar incident?
That one's just weird as hell.
To refresh people's memories, the VA hospitals especially don't have a good reputation of taking adequate care of their patients and a lot of them die, 'suddenly', 'unexpectedly', etc., of course the fact some of them have hired serial killers in the past didn't help either. But it also begs the question, for many years when hospitals KNEW a doctor/nurse was killing patients, or at least noticing one particular had MORE deaths per shift than anybody else, they didn't do anything to stop it, and instead just sent the murderer to go do the exact same thing at another hospital with NO warning to the staff what was coming. And they blame it on the medical bureaucracy, etc., but does that even make sense? Or does THIS suddenly seem a little more credible than the industry of 'healing' going 'well we CAN'T turn a serial killer over to the cops because they're one of us and the white coat wall won't let us do that, so just let them kill more patients somewhere else and it doesn't have to be our problem anymore'? Either way is bad, but seriously, if doctors are going to argue ethics and red tape trump patients being murdered, why does or should anybody trust them?
All the while, I often think about this video.
And I remember when it was new, comments were flooded with oh what kind of nurse PRAYS for her patient? That's stupid as hell because doctors and nurses are the ones that make it all happen, blah blah blah. People don't seem to realize that's precisely the kind of nurse everybody wants. And since this is reality more often than anybody wants to admit,
most good nurses probably pray a whole damn lot.
Of course that poses yet another question, since doctor's error is the 3rd leading cause of death just under heart disease and cancer, is it really just unfortunate 'error' or is some of it intentional? And how much actually is that 'some'?
Evil plain evil . Poor people
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Post by amyghost on Mar 17, 2024 12:25:38 GMT
It must be very convenient to live in the fantasy that tells you 'anytime things go wrong, just invoked the words Satan and evil, and that takes care of explanations'. No need to probe further, to see if any other causes that might be practically addressed and solved should come to light.
The only thing this crap proves (and crap is precisely the correct designator for it) is the sheer intellectual laziness of too many Christians, coupled with the sort of apathy that will look for any excuse to shy away from working to fix real-world problems.
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Post by clusium on Mar 17, 2024 19:38:56 GMT
It must be very convenient to live in the fantasy that tells you 'anytime things go wrong, just invoked the words Satan and evil, and that takes care of explanations'. No need to probe further, to see if any other causes that might be practically addressed and solved should come to light. The only thing this crap proves (and crap is precisely the correct designator for it) is the sheer intellectual laziness of too many Christians, coupled with the sort of apathy that will look for any excuse to shy away from working to fix real-world problems. Louise Pasteur: Devout Christian & inventor of Pasteurized milk & the rabies vaccine. St. Sampson the Hospitable: The creator of hospitals. William Wilberforce: Devout Christian & abolitionist. Peter Benensen: Convert to Christianity & Founder of Amnesty International. Mother Teresa of Calcutta: Most well-known humanitarian of the 20'Th Century. Terry Fox: Devout Christian who ran a marathon to raise money for cancer awareness & research. Dietrich Bonhoeffer: Christian theologian who opposed the Nazi regime. Need I list more???
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Post by amyghost on Mar 17, 2024 20:00:26 GMT
It must be very convenient to live in the fantasy that tells you 'anytime things go wrong, just invoked the words Satan and evil, and that takes care of explanations'. No need to probe further, to see if any other causes that might be practically addressed and solved should come to light. The only thing this crap proves (and crap is precisely the correct designator for it) is the sheer intellectual laziness of too many Christians, coupled with the sort of apathy that will look for any excuse to shy away from working to fix real-world problems. Louise Pasteur: Devout Christian & inventor of Pasteurized milk & the rabies vaccine. St. Sampson the Hospitable: The creator of hospitals. William Wilberforce: Devout Christian & abolitionist. Peter Benensen: Convert to Christianity & Founder of Amnesty International. Mother Teresa of Calcutta: Most well-known humanitarian of the 20'Th Century. Terry Fox: Devout Christian who ran a marathon to raise money for cancer awareness & research. Dietrich Bonhoeffer: Christian theologian who opposed the Nazi regime. Need I list more??? And? You listed the names of 7 individuals. Even if you named 7 more, or 7 times 7 more, it doesn't alter the fact of the seeming mental laziness and apathy amongst the many. Any group produces individuals who can be held up as exceptional--and that's why they're exceptional: they do the things that the majority herd don't. Certainly atheists have their own lists of exceptional people, a number of whom it can be said greatly benefitted their fellows. listverse.com/2019/12/20/top-10-atheists-who-changed-the-world/Admittedly I don't think much of Ayn Rand myself; but then again, I also don't think too much of Mother Theresa in light of the pretty well-documented evidence some of those who worked with her have put forth about the shameful state of those 'clinics' she ran--and solicited billions of dollars for.
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Post by clusium on Mar 17, 2024 20:07:49 GMT
Louise Pasteur: Devout Christian & inventor of Pasteurized milk & the rabies vaccine. St. Sampson the Hospitable: The creator of hospitals. William Wilberforce: Devout Christian & abolitionist. Peter Benensen: Convert to Christianity & Founder of Amnesty International. Mother Teresa of Calcutta: Most well-known humanitarian of the 20'Th Century. Terry Fox: Devout Christian who ran a marathon to raise money for cancer awareness & research. Dietrich Bonhoeffer: Christian theologian who opposed the Nazi regime. Need I list more??? And? You listed the names of 7 individuals. Even if you named 7 more, or 7 times 7 more, it doesn't alter the fact of the seeming mental laziness and apathy amongst the many. Any group produces individuals who can be held up as exceptional--and that's why they're exceptional: they do the things that the majority herd don't. Certainly atheists have their own lists of exceptional people, a number of whom it can be said greatly benefitted their fellows. listverse.com/2019/12/20/top-10-atheists-who-changed-the-world/Admittedly I don't think much of Ayn Rand myself; but then again, I also don't think too much of Mother Theresa in light of the pretty well-documented evidence some of those who worked with her have put forth about the shameful state of those 'clinics' she ran--and solicited billions of dollars for. I don't dispute that there were atheists who have changed the world for the better. I take issue with your claim that just because Christians will blame the world's evils on the devil is simple mental laziness on their own part. Christians will also credit the world's Good on Almighty God, even if/when they themselves played a role in it. God Is all Goodness, while the devil personifies evil.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 17, 2024 20:25:49 GMT
And? You listed the names of 7 individuals. Even if you named 7 more, or 7 times 7 more, it doesn't alter the fact of the seeming mental laziness and apathy amongst the many. Any group produces individuals who can be held up as exceptional--and that's why they're exceptional: they do the things that the majority herd don't. Certainly atheists have their own lists of exceptional people, a number of whom it can be said greatly benefitted their fellows. listverse.com/2019/12/20/top-10-atheists-who-changed-the-world/Admittedly I don't think much of Ayn Rand myself; but then again, I also don't think too much of Mother Theresa in light of the pretty well-documented evidence some of those who worked with her have put forth about the shameful state of those 'clinics' she ran--and solicited billions of dollars for. I don't dispute that there were atheists who have changed the world for the better. I take issue with your claim that just because Christians will blame the world's evils on the devil is simple mental laziness on their own part. Christians will also credit the world's Good on Almighty God, even if/when they themselves played a role in it. God Is all Goodness, while the devil personifies evil. Blaming real-world ills on an imaginary bad guy is as reductive and mentally lazy as laying at the doorstep of an equally imaginary sky fairy anything good which man brought about through his own efforts. And sorry--but going by those inconvenient scriptures that make up the Old Testament, one can pretty handily conclude that God, while he may be many things, is certainly not 'all Goodness'. www.metaphysicalexile.com/2022/01/god-is-not-good-all-time.html
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Post by clusium on Mar 17, 2024 22:09:47 GMT
I don't dispute that there were atheists who have changed the world for the better. I take issue with your claim that just because Christians will blame the world's evils on the devil is simple mental laziness on their own part. Christians will also credit the world's Good on Almighty God, even if/when they themselves played a role in it. God Is all Goodness, while the devil personifies evil. Blaming real-world ills on an imaginary bad guy is as reductive and mentally lazy as laying at the doorstep of an equally imaginary sky fairy anything good which man brought about through his own efforts. And sorry--but going by those inconvenient scriptures that make up the Old Testament, one can pretty handily conclude that God, while he may be many things, is certainly not 'all Goodness'. www.metaphysicalexile.com/2022/01/god-is-not-good-all-time.htmlJust because you do not believe in God or the devil does not make Either imaginary. While admittedly, I would prefer if the devil and/or hell are nothing more than figments of our own imagination, & nothing more, wishful thinking will not make either go away. Anyhow, temptations from the evil spirits do not excuse the actions from peoples who do not choose to resist said temptations but give into them. Just as the Father Punished the serpent (aka the devil) for tempting His children, He Did not Excuse Adam & Eve from listening to him (the serpent) rather than obeying His Command (to not eat the fruit).
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 17, 2024 22:41:16 GMT
Just because you do not believe in God or the devil does not make Either imaginary. It does not make them true either, however one fervently believes in such things. And wishful thinking will not make them exist either. (See above). Just as "God wants it" does not justify almost sacrificing your child - or flying planes into buildings, come to that. You know that the Adam and Eve story is not literally true, or actual history... right? That it is just a part of a creation myth, types of which are found in cultures down the ages? Right?
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Post by clusium on Mar 18, 2024 3:52:18 GMT
Just because you do not believe in God or the devil does not make Either imaginary. It does not make them true either, however one fervently believes in such things. And wishful thinking will not make them exist either. (See above). Just as "God wants it" does not justify almost sacrificing your child - or flying planes into buildings, come to that. You know that the Adam and Eve story is not literally true, or actual history... right? That it is just a part of a creation myth, types of which are found in cultures down the ages? Right? Nobody said that it does. Nor will wishful thinking make them cease to exist either (see my previous post). God Stopped Abraham from sacrificing his son. Not unlike the worshippers of Moloch, who sacrificed their own children to him. And talk to the members of al Qaida about flying planes into buildings, because it was not my faith Christianity that did that, & most Muslims particularly from non-Wahhabi sects would never do that either. Yeah, I'm aware.
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Post by novastar6 on Mar 18, 2024 5:38:38 GMT
It must be very convenient to live in the fantasy that tells you 'anytime things go wrong, just invoked the words Satan and evil, and that takes care of explanations'. No need to probe further, to see if any other causes that might be practically addressed and solved should come to light. The only thing this crap proves (and crap is precisely the correct designator for it) is the sheer intellectual laziness of too many Christians, coupled with the sort of apathy that will look for any excuse to shy away from working to fix real-world problems.
Socialism to fix real world problems? Now who's living a fantasy?
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Post by novastar6 on Mar 18, 2024 5:48:22 GMT
The way that worked last time was one group of people died broke and homeless because in addition to paying for their own medical needs, they had to buy other people's insurance so the second group got it practically for 'free'. Doctors aren't going to be incentivized to do a better job for less money, so the only way that socialized medicine would work would be if everybody had to pay even more money than they already are which they already can't afford.
Meanwhile incompetence would certainly serve as a clever disguise for evil, wouldn't it? History's full of it, 'I tortured and killed people because I was just following orders', 'I'm not responsible for murder because I ate too many Twinkies', etc.
? Cite a source for this 'story'. Not a YouTube video, please. A documented, verifiable, preferably print, source. Meanwhile, I suspect plain old mistakes are more prevalent than 'evil', though I'm aware some minds see evil under every overturned rock.
So now Obamacare is 'a story'? I'm pretty sure it's well documented, and anybody who actually knows financial math knows it's impossible to insure 300 million people if EVERYBODY only has to pay $40 to get it, somebody has to put in the real money and of course it's not the millionaires who think up these so called 'solutions'. And if everybody only had to pay $40 a month to GET insurance, there wouldn't be any need to fine people $900 per year for refusing it.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 18, 2024 21:07:44 GMT
Nor will wishful thinking make them cease to exist either (see my previous post). Unfortunately the onus on proof is on those who make the claim they do. What do you have? The point I was making is that believing a god approves does not excuse the worst of behaviours, or the preparation of them. Would your God have been so prompt to persuade His followers against witchcraft trials, crusades and the inquisition as well. Perhaps the remainder then, who do, can be spoken to. Many would appreciate it. Good, just checking. But "Just as the Father Punished the serpent (aka the devil) for tempting His children, He Did not Excuse Adam & Eve from listening to him (the serpent) rather than obeying His Command (to not eat the fruit)." gives no indication it all should be thought as fiction.
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