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Post by clusium on Mar 20, 2024 14:53:54 GMT
Science can only test or prove what exists within the boundaries of time & space. God Exists OUTSIDE of time & space, because God Created time & space. And while the Jewish texts do not identify the snake as Satan, the Christian texts do: Read Revelation chapter 12. As for the Jewish ones: There was a Jewish myth about an earlier wife of Adam (based on Genesis chapter 1, verse 27, & yet, in Genesis chapter 2, there was only man, so God Created woman from his rib), that later became the queen of demons. Judaism today, pretty much does not believe in a devil, however, the way the ancient Jews viewed the gods of their enemies - Baal Haded, etc. - was pretty much the same as how Christians view Satan, etc. Revelations was written long after the Pentateuch and OT, and can't be quoted as any sort of 'proof' that the serpent was anything other than a God-created creature. As to God 'existing' outside of time and space: when one wishes to avoid the physical laws of the universe, one simply makes up a being who follows some other, unknown (hence 'unproven') set of laws. This is to be dismissed as nonsense; and if the believer truly wants to press for the existence of this other-existing God, it's on him to supply tangible evidences for it. No one has. Lilith exists as part of the Apocrypha, which good Christians are supposed to discount. What she was referred to in folklore doesn't count for anything in the Genesis story as we now know it. Yeah so? Frankly, makes more sense THAN if it was simply a "God-created creature." God Does not Have to Prove ANYTHING to us. No, it is not "simply makes up a being who follows some other, unknown (hence 'unproven') set of laws." God Created EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS within the boundaries of time & space, thereby MEANING He Exists outside of it. Actually, Lilith is also part of the Holy Bible as well, though nowhere in the Book of Genesis. Isaiah chapter 34 mentions her. Christians (& I believe the vast majority of Jewish people too) know that the story of Adam's first wife was only an apocryphal explanation as to why the first chapter of Genesis said that God Created Man as both male & female, & then in the second chapter Man is all on his own, so God Created Woman.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 20, 2024 17:59:52 GMT
Yes, & God Does Restore our health to those seeking it. But never legs and arms, it would appear. Something for which you do not have an answer. Can't you see what this does to the notion of a supposedly all-powerful deity who can answer prayers? No legs and arms here either. Also, declaring something 'a miracle' does not make it so. Things can happen which cannot yet be explained by science and yet not be unknown to science. Sometimes people just get better all by themselves. To make of it anything else where such a thing is naturally possible if rare is just an exercise in credulity.
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Post by clusium on Mar 20, 2024 20:26:30 GMT
Yes, & God Does Restore our health to those seeking it. But never legs and arms, it would appear. Something for which you do not have an answer. Can't you see what this does to the notion of a supposedly all-powerful deity who can answer prayers? No legs and arms here either. Also, declaring something 'a miracle' does not make it so. Things can happen which cannot yet be explained by science and yet not be unknown to science. Sometimes people just get better all by themselves. To make of it anything else where such a thing is naturally possible if rare is just an exercise in credulity. Yes, declaring something a 'miracle' means that. Unless when used as an exaggeration, sarcasm, etc. Just because there are things which cannot be explained by science, & yet does not appear to have any religious or spiritual association with it, does not negate upon the miraculous nature of such a situation.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 20, 2024 21:24:46 GMT
But never legs and arms, it would appear. Something for which you do not have an answer. Can't you see what this does to the notion of a supposedly all-powerful deity who can answer prayers? No legs and arms here either. Also, declaring something 'a miracle' does not make it so. Things can happen which cannot yet be explained by science and yet not be unknown to science. Sometimes people just get better all by themselves. To make of it anything else where such a thing is naturally possible if rare is just an exercise in credulity. Yes, declaring something a 'miracle' means that. Unless when used as an exaggeration, sarcasm, etc. Just because there are things which cannot be explained by science, & yet does not appear to have any religious or spiritual association with it, does not negate upon the miraculous nature of such a situation. You seem to be confusing formal and informal meanings of 'miracle'. A miracle is an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency. Informally, English-speakers often use the word miracle to characterise any beneficial event that is statistically unlikely but not contrary to the laws of nature, such as surviving a natural disaster, or simply a "wonderful" occurrence, regardless of likelihood (e.g. "the miracle of childbirth"). Various things have been deemed 'miraculous' in the past and now have scientific explanations. But the point is, still, that we have still to see the growing back of legs and arms, miraculous or otherwise.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 21, 2024 0:21:05 GMT
Revelations was written long after the Pentateuch and OT, and can't be quoted as any sort of 'proof' that the serpent was anything other than a God-created creature. As to God 'existing' outside of time and space: when one wishes to avoid the physical laws of the universe, one simply makes up a being who follows some other, unknown (hence 'unproven') set of laws. This is to be dismissed as nonsense; and if the believer truly wants to press for the existence of this other-existing God, it's on him to supply tangible evidences for it. No one has. Lilith exists as part of the Apocrypha, which good Christians are supposed to discount. What she was referred to in folklore doesn't count for anything in the Genesis story as we now know it. Yeah so? Frankly, makes more sense THAN if it was simply a "God-created creature." God Does not Have to Prove ANYTHING to us. No, it is not "simply makes up a being who follows some other, unknown (hence 'unproven') set of laws." God Created EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS within the boundaries of time & space, thereby MEANING He Exists outside of it. Actually, Lilith is also part of the Holy Bible as well, though nowhere in the Book of Genesis. Isaiah chapter 34 mentions her. Christians (& I believe the vast majority of Jewish people too) know that the story of Adam's first wife was only an apocryphal explanation as to why the first chapter of Genesis said that God Created Man as both male & female, & then in the second chapter Man is all on his own, so God Created Woman. Sorry, but God does have to prove something if he wants belief from those who aren't predisposed to take tall tales at face value. And yes, it certainly does matter that Revelations was written long after the Old Testament scriptures--there was ample time for the serpent as Satan story to enter folklore and corrupt the original story, which it clearly did here. How you can figure that Satan as serpent makes more sense than the snake being a creation of God gone wrong is beyond me--neither makes sense at all--except in the fervent need of the God-fearing believer to make certain that he doesn't say/think anything that'll get his god angry with him. Putting the observation that God created everything that exists in all caps, does not, btw, make that statement any more true. And if it were true, then apparently God did indeed create evil, since nothing supposedly existed before his creation and nothing supposedly exists outside of it.
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2024 2:22:17 GMT
Yes, declaring something a 'miracle' means that. Unless when used as an exaggeration, sarcasm, etc. Just because there are things which cannot be explained by science, & yet does not appear to have any religious or spiritual association with it, does not negate upon the miraculous nature of such a situation. You seem to be confusing formal and informal meanings of 'miracle'. A miracle is an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency. Informally, English-speakers often use the word miracle to characterise any beneficial event that is statistically unlikely but not contrary to the laws of nature, such as surviving a natural disaster, or simply a "wonderful" occurrence, regardless of likelihood (e.g. "the miracle of childbirth"). Various things have been deemed 'miraculous' in the past and now have scientific explanations. But the point is, still, that we have still to see the growing back of legs and arms, miraculous or otherwise. No, but, we do have the cases of miraculous healings from terminal illnesses, which you yourself acknowledge. Why are they not good enough for you? And as you already noted, various things that had been deemed 'miraculous' now have scientific explanations. Therefore, even if amputees grew back lost body parts, atheists such as yourself would only await for science to explain the regrowth.
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2024 2:36:07 GMT
Yeah so? Frankly, makes more sense THAN if it was simply a "God-created creature." God Does not Have to Prove ANYTHING to us. No, it is not "simply makes up a being who follows some other, unknown (hence 'unproven') set of laws." God Created EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS within the boundaries of time & space, thereby MEANING He Exists outside of it. Actually, Lilith is also part of the Holy Bible as well, though nowhere in the Book of Genesis. Isaiah chapter 34 mentions her. Christians (& I believe the vast majority of Jewish people too) know that the story of Adam's first wife was only an apocryphal explanation as to why the first chapter of Genesis said that God Created Man as both male & female, & then in the second chapter Man is all on his own, so God Created Woman. Sorry, but God does have to prove something if he wants belief from those who aren't predisposed to take tall tales at face value. And yes, it certainly does matter that Revelations was written long after the Old Testament scriptures--there was ample time for the serpent as Satan story to enter folklore and corrupt the original story, which it clearly did here. How you can figure that Satan as serpent makes more sense than the snake being a creation of God gone wrong is beyond me--neither makes sense at all--except in the fervent need of the God-fearing believer to make certain that he doesn't say/think anything that'll get his god angry with him. Putting the observation that God created everything that exists in all caps, does not, btw, make that statement any more true. And if it were true, then apparently God did indeed create evil, since nothing supposedly existed before his creation and nothing supposedly exists outside of it. God Actually already Has Proven Himself more times than we can count, & still gets dismissed. He Does not Have to Prove anything to us. As I read in another website," we are the ones on trial; not Him." Yes, I am saying that it makes more sense that the serpent was either Satan or demonically possessed by Satan. The first thing is, how was the snake even able to speak, in the story about the Garden of Eden? The only other animal in the Holy Bible that was able to talk was Balaam's donkey (coincidentally, that story also took place in the Old Testament, & in fact part of those set of Books known as the Torah, in Judaism, just as Genesis is), & it was explained in that case that it was God that Gave the animal the power to speak to its cruel owner. There is no such explanation as to why the snake was able to speak to the first humans in the Garden. The second thing is, what would even be the reason as to why the snake would want the first humans to disobey their Creator (& when I say 'they,' I am even including the snake here) God Gave them all the gift of life & consciousness, why would the snake not be grateful for such a gift? Lastly, if the forbidden fruit was good for everything that the snake said that it was, why not eat the fruit himself??? God Gave the humans dominion over all the other living things that He Created. He even Allowed Adam to name all the species that He Created, rather than Naming them Himself. Therefore, if the snake ate of the fruit, he could have potentially taken over everything himself, & gain dominion over everything. Therefore, it makes more sense that the snake had something against God, & tempted the first humans into disobedience out of spite against Him.
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Post by novastar6 on Mar 21, 2024 7:04:44 GMT
Yes, declaring something a 'miracle' means that. Unless when used as an exaggeration, sarcasm, etc. Just because there are things which cannot be explained by science, & yet does not appear to have any religious or spiritual association with it, does not negate upon the miraculous nature of such a situation. You seem to be confusing formal and informal meanings of 'miracle'. A miracle is an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency. Informally, English-speakers often use the word miracle to characterise any beneficial event that is statistically unlikely but not contrary to the laws of nature, such as surviving a natural disaster, or simply a "wonderful" occurrence, regardless of likelihood (e.g. "the miracle of childbirth"). Various things have been deemed 'miraculous' in the past and now have scientific explanations. But the point is, still, that we have still to see the growing back of legs and arms, miraculous or otherwise.
Since man isn't reptilian, it'd be pretty hard to deny the existence of God if that happened, wouldn't it?
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Post by amyghost on Mar 21, 2024 10:30:10 GMT
Sorry, but God does have to prove something if he wants belief from those who aren't predisposed to take tall tales at face value. And yes, it certainly does matter that Revelations was written long after the Old Testament scriptures--there was ample time for the serpent as Satan story to enter folklore and corrupt the original story, which it clearly did here. How you can figure that Satan as serpent makes more sense than the snake being a creation of God gone wrong is beyond me--neither makes sense at all--except in the fervent need of the God-fearing believer to make certain that he doesn't say/think anything that'll get his god angry with him. Putting the observation that God created everything that exists in all caps, does not, btw, make that statement any more true. And if it were true, then apparently God did indeed create evil, since nothing supposedly existed before his creation and nothing supposedly exists outside of it. God Actually already Has Proven Himself more times than we can count, & still gets dismissed. He Does not Have to Prove anything to us. As I read in another website," we are the ones on trial; not Him." Yes, I am saying that it makes more sense that the serpent was either Satan or demonically possessed by Satan. The first thing is, how was the snake even able to speak, in the story about the Garden of Eden? The only other animal in the Holy Bible that was able to talk was Balaam's donkey (coincidentally, that story also took place in the Old Testament, & in fact part of those set of Books known as the Torah, in Judaism, just as Genesis is), & it was explained in that case that it was God that Gave the animal the power to speak to its cruel owner. There is no such explanation as to why the snake was able to speak to the first humans in the Garden. The second thing is, what would even be the reason as to why the snake would want the first humans to disobey their Creator (& when I say 'they,' I am even including the snake here) God Gave them all the gift of life & consciousness, why would the snake not be grateful for such a gift? Lastly, if the forbidden fruit was good for everything that the snake said that it was, why not eat the fruit himself??? God Gave the humans dominion over all the other living things that He Created. He even Allowed Adam to name all the species that He Created, rather than Naming them Himself. Therefore, if the snake ate of the fruit, he could have potentially taken over everything himself, & gain dominion over everything. Therefore, it makes more sense that the snake had something against God, & tempted the first humans into disobedience out of spite against Him. All you've succeeded in doing there is to show how utterly senseless the whole story is when taken in literal form. And don't you think it's a just a tad hubristic on your part to claim to have a better explanation than Torah scholars--or scripture itself, which states that the snake was a snake, and not something or someone else? And in one sense you're quite right--it's those who claim existence of God as a fact who are on trial, and required to show proofs. And yeah, God's on trial: he began it all, let him provide some explanations if he can. And no, God hasn't 'proven' anything. Once more, if you're predisposed to being a believer it's possible for you to see proofs of his existence in whatever; for those of us who require more than wishful thinking as a stand-in for evidence, no proofs have been shown.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 21, 2024 10:37:27 GMT
You seem to be confusing formal and informal meanings of 'miracle'. A miracle is an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency. Informally, English-speakers often use the word miracle to characterise any beneficial event that is statistically unlikely but not contrary to the laws of nature, such as surviving a natural disaster, or simply a "wonderful" occurrence, regardless of likelihood (e.g. "the miracle of childbirth"). Various things have been deemed 'miraculous' in the past and now have scientific explanations. But the point is, still, that we have still to see the growing back of legs and arms, miraculous or otherwise.
Since man isn't reptilian, it'd be pretty hard to deny the existence of God if that happened, wouldn't it?
Why? The point, which seems to have missed you by a mile--unsurprisingly--is that we're to believe God can generate miraculous cures through prayer. So why has there never been a case of regeneration of an amputated limb amongst all these alleged miracle cures?
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Post by clusium on Mar 21, 2024 12:04:48 GMT
God Actually already Has Proven Himself more times than we can count, & still gets dismissed. He Does not Have to Prove anything to us. As I read in another website," we are the ones on trial; not Him." Yes, I am saying that it makes more sense that the serpent was either Satan or demonically possessed by Satan. The first thing is, how was the snake even able to speak, in the story about the Garden of Eden? The only other animal in the Holy Bible that was able to talk was Balaam's donkey (coincidentally, that story also took place in the Old Testament, & in fact part of those set of Books known as the Torah, in Judaism, just as Genesis is), & it was explained in that case that it was God that Gave the animal the power to speak to its cruel owner. There is no such explanation as to why the snake was able to speak to the first humans in the Garden. The second thing is, what would even be the reason as to why the snake would want the first humans to disobey their Creator (& when I say 'they,' I am even including the snake here) God Gave them all the gift of life & consciousness, why would the snake not be grateful for such a gift? Lastly, if the forbidden fruit was good for everything that the snake said that it was, why not eat the fruit himself??? God Gave the humans dominion over all the other living things that He Created. He even Allowed Adam to name all the species that He Created, rather than Naming them Himself. Therefore, if the snake ate of the fruit, he could have potentially taken over everything himself, & gain dominion over everything. Therefore, it makes more sense that the snake had something against God, & tempted the first humans into disobedience out of spite against Him. All you've succeeded in doing there is to show how utterly senseless the whole story is when taken in literal form. And don't you think it's a just a tad hubristic on your part to claim to have a better explanation than Torah scholars--or scripture itself, which states that the snake was a snake, and not something or someone else? And in one sense you're quite right--it's those who claim existence of God as a fact who are on trial, and required to show proofs. And yeah, God's on trial: he began it all, let him provide some explanations if he can. And no, God hasn't 'proven' anything. Once more, if you're predisposed to being a believer it's possible for you to see proofs of his existence in whatever; for those of us who require more than wishful thinking as a stand-in for evidence, no proofs have been shown. Taking into consideration that St. John the Apostle (the writer of the Book of Revelation) was Jewish - as Christ Himself was, & all the Apostles were - no I do not. And did not these same Torah scholars also try have a better explanation as to why the creation of female was first written when the creation of Man was mentioned in Genesis chapter 1, & then again in Genesis chapter 2, by creating the story about a devil (Lilith), rather than simply explain that Genesis chapter 2 was simply a more in depth story about the creation of Woman? Yes He Has. He Has Proven Himself constantly. St. Thomas Aquinas' 5 Proofs Of God
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Post by novastar6 on Mar 21, 2024 17:26:50 GMT
Since man isn't reptilian, it'd be pretty hard to deny the existence of God if that happened, wouldn't it?
Why? The point, which seems to have missed you by a mile--unsurprisingly--is that we're to believe God can generate miraculous cures through prayer. So why has there never been a case of regeneration of an amputated limb amongst all these alleged miracle cures?
If that happened, when it has never happened before in thousands of years, would atheists be inclined to suddenly admit that God is real? Or would they think it's just spontaneous human regeneration?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 21, 2024 20:18:42 GMT
You seem to be confusing formal and informal meanings of 'miracle'. A miracle is an extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency. Informally, English-speakers often use the word miracle to characterise any beneficial event that is statistically unlikely but not contrary to the laws of nature, such as surviving a natural disaster, or simply a "wonderful" occurrence, regardless of likelihood (e.g. "the miracle of childbirth"). Various things have been deemed 'miraculous' in the past and now have scientific explanations. But the point is, still, that we have still to see the growing back of legs and arms, miraculous or otherwise.
Since man isn't reptilian, it'd be pretty hard to deny the existence of God if that happened, wouldn't it?
Indeed, which is why for me (and I suspect others) it would be a red line event - something to compel immediate conversion. But any omniscient god would know that.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 21, 2024 20:22:09 GMT
Yes, I am saying that it makes more sense that the serpent was either Satan or demonically possessed by Satan. The first thing is, how was the snake even able to speak, in the story about the Garden of Eden? The only other animal in the Holy Bible that was able to talk was Balaam's donkey (coincidentally, that story also took place in the Old Testament, & in fact part of those set of Books known as the Torah, in Judaism, just as Genesis is), & it was explained in that case that it was God that Gave the animal the power to speak to its cruel owner. There is no such explanation as to why the snake was able to speak to the first humans in the Garden. The second thing is, what would even be the reason as to why the snake would want the first humans to disobey their Creator (& when I say 'they,' I am even including the snake here) God Gave them all the gift of life & consciousness, why would the snake not be grateful for such a gift? Lastly, if the forbidden fruit was good for everything that the snake said that it was, why not eat the fruit himself??? God Gave the humans dominion over all the other living things that He Created. He even Allowed Adam to name all the species that He Created, rather than Naming them Himself. Therefore, if the snake ate of the fruit, he could have potentially taken over everything himself, & gain dominion over everything. Therefore, it makes more sense that the snake had something against God, & tempted the first humans into disobedience out of spite against Him. Once again: you do know that the Adam and Eve tale is not historical, right? You still write as if it ought to be taken as so and literally true.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 21, 2024 20:46:27 GMT
Why are they not good enough for you? As I have already quoted from the experts that "occurrences of spontaneous regression have been reported for many types of cancer." But medical science does not seem to think there is a supernatural cause for these or other unexpected recoveries. Instead this is down to the regular credulity of believers. Why not just as easily attribute such healing to Allah, Odin, the unsuspected qualities of Coke or aliens?The point is that with human limb regeneration has never happened in modern times and if it happened in short order, spontaneously and immediately after prayer, it would go against all we know about the human body. It is true that the obdurate will always be with us, but speaking for myself (and likely many others), such an event, independently authenticated, would compel immediate conversion. And an omniscient god knows this. But, even if we say I was not really willing to accept even such a miracle... why does it still never happen?
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 21, 2024 21:03:45 GMT
Yes He Has. He Has Proven Himself constantly. Again: as with the Biblical Creation Myth, you know that the Plagues of Egypt are not to be taken as literally true... right? Scholars broadly agree that the Exodus is not a historical account, that the Israelites originated in Canaan and from the Canaanites and that, while a small group of proto-Israelites may have originated from Egypt, it did not happen in the colourful and dramatic way the Bible describes. I am sure others will have more to say about it than I have time for, but are you aware that Aquinas' famous Proofs are a good deal about proving the necessity of merely a First Cause (at least according to medieval logic and thought), and several of them do not purport to prove the existence of specific, supernatural one?
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Post by amyghost on Mar 21, 2024 21:04:46 GMT
All you've succeeded in doing there is to show how utterly senseless the whole story is when taken in literal form. And don't you think it's a just a tad hubristic on your part to claim to have a better explanation than Torah scholars--or scripture itself, which states that the snake was a snake, and not something or someone else? And in one sense you're quite right--it's those who claim existence of God as a fact who are on trial, and required to show proofs. And yeah, God's on trial: he began it all, let him provide some explanations if he can. And no, God hasn't 'proven' anything. Once more, if you're predisposed to being a believer it's possible for you to see proofs of his existence in whatever; for those of us who require more than wishful thinking as a stand-in for evidence, no proofs have been shown. Taking into consideration that St. John the Apostle (the writer of the Book of Revelation) was Jewish - as Christ Himself was, & all the Apostles were - no I do not. And did not these same Torah scholars also try have a better explanation as to why the creation of female was first written when the creation of Man was mentioned in Genesis chapter 1, & then again in Genesis chapter 2, by creating the story about a devil (Lilith), rather than simply explain that Genesis chapter 2 was simply a more in depth story about the creation of Woman? Yes He Has. He Has Proven Himself constantly. St. Thomas Aquinas' 5 Proofs Of GodNo. He hasn't, St. Thomas notwithstanding. That video proves nothing whatsoever.
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Post by amyghost on Mar 21, 2024 21:09:30 GMT
Yes, I am saying that it makes more sense that the serpent was either Satan or demonically possessed by Satan. The first thing is, how was the snake even able to speak, in the story about the Garden of Eden? The only other animal in the Holy Bible that was able to talk was Balaam's donkey (coincidentally, that story also took place in the Old Testament, & in fact part of those set of Books known as the Torah, in Judaism, just as Genesis is), & it was explained in that case that it was God that Gave the animal the power to speak to its cruel owner. There is no such explanation as to why the snake was able to speak to the first humans in the Garden. The second thing is, what would even be the reason as to why the snake would want the first humans to disobey their Creator (& when I say 'they,' I am even including the snake here) God Gave them all the gift of life & consciousness, why would the snake not be grateful for such a gift? Lastly, if the forbidden fruit was good for everything that the snake said that it was, why not eat the fruit himself??? God Gave the humans dominion over all the other living things that He Created. He even Allowed Adam to name all the species that He Created, rather than Naming them Himself. Therefore, if the snake ate of the fruit, he could have potentially taken over everything himself, & gain dominion over everything. Therefore, it makes more sense that the snake had something against God, & tempted the first humans into disobedience out of spite against Him. Once again: you do know that the Adam and Eve tale is not historical, right? You still write as if it ought to be taken as so and literally true.In the final analysis, it always boils down to this. Even though their own theology, overall, has advanced to the point of admitting that these are myths which cannot be taken as literal truths, many believers still insist they are true, and must be taken at face value. As could be expected, nothing but sheer nonsense can come out of this.
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Post by novastar6 on Mar 21, 2024 23:48:06 GMT
Since man isn't reptilian, it'd be pretty hard to deny the existence of God if that happened, wouldn't it?
Indeed, which is why for me (and I suspect others) it would be a red line event - something to compel immediate conversion. But any omniscient god would know that.
Answer's in the question, there would be no FAITH involved then, and without faith there is no genuine conversion.
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Post by clusium on Mar 22, 2024 0:02:15 GMT
Yes, I am saying that it makes more sense that the serpent was either Satan or demonically possessed by Satan. The first thing is, how was the snake even able to speak, in the story about the Garden of Eden? The only other animal in the Holy Bible that was able to talk was Balaam's donkey (coincidentally, that story also took place in the Old Testament, & in fact part of those set of Books known as the Torah, in Judaism, just as Genesis is), & it was explained in that case that it was God that Gave the animal the power to speak to its cruel owner. There is no such explanation as to why the snake was able to speak to the first humans in the Garden. The second thing is, what would even be the reason as to why the snake would want the first humans to disobey their Creator (& when I say 'they,' I am even including the snake here) God Gave them all the gift of life & consciousness, why would the snake not be grateful for such a gift? Lastly, if the forbidden fruit was good for everything that the snake said that it was, why not eat the fruit himself??? God Gave the humans dominion over all the other living things that He Created. He even Allowed Adam to name all the species that He Created, rather than Naming them Himself. Therefore, if the snake ate of the fruit, he could have potentially taken over everything himself, & gain dominion over everything. Therefore, it makes more sense that the snake had something against God, & tempted the first humans into disobedience out of spite against Him. Once again: you do know that the Adam and Eve tale is not historical, right? You still write as if it ought to be taken as so and literally true. I realize yes; but, I am discussing the role of the snake in the story with amyghost, as to who it was or supposed to be.
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