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Post by clusium on Mar 13, 2024 5:59:18 GMT
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Post by Admin on Mar 13, 2024 21:28:51 GMT
No atheists in foxholes. None in hell, either.
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Mar 13, 2024 23:04:47 GMT
No atheists in foxholes. None in hell, either. Interesting comment, but sadly it's just conjecture. I can say that I was in the military for 21 years and that the no atheists in foxholes is just a myth. As for heaven and hell, those are one way trips after death. As for Clusium's video, that's just research by You Tube, the equivalent to the National Enquirer; except for the fact you don't need a fourth grade education for the former.
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Post by Admin on Mar 13, 2024 23:12:21 GMT
No atheists in foxholes. None in hell, either. Interesting comment, but sadly it's just conjecture. I can say that I was in the military for 21 years and that the no atheists in foxholes is just a myth. As for heaven and hell, those are one way trips after death. As for Clusium's video, that's just research by You Tube, the equivalent to the National Enquirer; except for the fact you don't need a fourth grade education for the former. If heaven and hell exist, there isn't a single soul in either place that doesn't believe.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Mar 14, 2024 0:17:25 GMT
I do not get it. How could Levey be an atheist ? He believed in Satan, so he believed in God, imho.
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Post by clusium on Mar 14, 2024 0:44:41 GMT
I do not get it. How could Levey be an atheist ? He believed in Satan, so he believed in God, imho. He claimed to be an atheist. He said that Satan symbolized self-assertion & rebellion against "unjust authority."
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Mar 14, 2024 2:02:07 GMT
Interesting comment, but sadly it's just conjecture. I can say that I was in the military for 21 years and that the no atheists in foxholes is just a myth. As for heaven and hell, those are one way trips after death. As for Clusium's video, that's just research by You Tube, the equivalent to the National Enquirer; except for the fact you don't need a fourth grade education for the former. If heaven and hell exist, there isn't a single soul in either place that doesn't believe. Yes, it is hard to deny if one is actually in those places.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Mar 14, 2024 2:14:34 GMT
I do not get it. How could Levey be an atheist ? He believed in Satan, so he believed in God, imho. He claimed to be an atheist. He said that Satan symbolized self-assertion & rebellion against "unjust authority." Er, that’s the tale of iblis, just it. Its definition...
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Post by clusium on Mar 14, 2024 2:29:57 GMT
He claimed to be an atheist. He said that Satan symbolized self-assertion & rebellion against "unjust authority." Er, that’s the tale of iblis, just it. Its definition... Tell that to Anton LaVay.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Mar 14, 2024 6:03:41 GMT
Er, that’s the tale of iblis, just it. Its definition... Tell that to Anton LaVay. No, thank you. He’s dead !
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 14, 2024 22:08:33 GMT
Interesting comment, but sadly it's just conjecture. I can say that I was in the military for 21 years and that the no atheists in foxholes is just a myth. As for heaven and hell, those are one way trips after death. As for Clusium's video, that's just research by You Tube, the equivalent to the National Enquirer; except for the fact you don't need a fourth grade education for the former. If heaven and hell exist, there isn't a single soul in either place that doesn't believe. And if they don't as I am sure you would agree, there are no souls (even if they ever existed) to give a damn anymore. No atheists in foxholes: an aphorism which suggests people find religious faith comforting during stressful or dangerous experiences. Like many such absolutes it is unproveable and wrong. For instance it is hardly surprising some lose their faith when undergoing trauma or witnessing immense suffering: EG from two soldier's letters from the Siege of Stalingrad: ""In Stalingrad, to put the question of God’s existence means to deny it. I must tell you this, Father, and I feel doubly sorry for it. You have raised me, because I had no mother, and always kept God before my eyes and soul. And I regret my words doubly, because they will be my last… you are a pastor, Father… I have searched for God in every crater, in every destroyed house, on every corner, in every friend, in my fox hole, and in the sky. God did not show Himself, even though my heart cried for Him. The houses were destroyed… on earth there was hunger and murder, from the sky came bombs and fire, only God was not there. No, Father, there is no God.” "“This will be my last letter… perhaps forever… the situation has become untenable. The Russians are within three kilometers… If there is a God… I don’t believe any longer that God can be good, for then he would not permit such injustice. I don’t believe in it anymore, for he would have enlightened the minds of those people who began this war… I don’t believe in God anymore, because he betrayed us. I don’t believe anymore.” Not all people find faith helpful. As for LaVey's supposed repentance this seem unlikely and based on convenient hearsay. By the time he arrived at St. Mary's he couldn't talk. The unspoken argument behind it often is that if someone who didn't believe in God finally believes in the end, He must be real (itself a fallacy). Nothing can be farther from the truth. When those in the room including hospital staff, were queried, they apparently denied that Anton LaVey had uttered those words attributed to him. (I haven't researched this extensively so am open to firm opposing evidence) LaVey had his philosophy and research in magic that he formulated into a religion. And died a Satanist till the end.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Mar 20, 2024 21:00:40 GMT
Ot (atheists in foxholes) I translate a quote I read long ago in Heinlein : God fights on the side of heavy artillery. It’s easy to believe when you are equipped to win.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Mar 20, 2024 21:44:05 GMT
From the guardian, Last words Faust -- Marlowe’s Almost atheistic
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Post by novastar6 on Mar 21, 2024 7:12:42 GMT
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Post by Rodney Farber on Mar 23, 2024 16:23:41 GMT
No atheists in foxholes. None in hell, either. The belief that there are no atheists in foxholes comes from the idea that when the bombs are falling, we all return to Jesus and start putting our hands together and pray. This is fallacious in fifty different ways. If you are truly theistic, and you were in a foxhole and the bombs were dropping, you would be going, “I hope they get me. I am so ready for Heaven.” Instead, everyone puts on a helmet and ducks down to stay alive, which makes me believe that there are no theists in foxholes. Noah Lugeons, The Atheist Experience – 2019-Jan-13
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Post by clusium on Mar 23, 2024 17:47:49 GMT
No atheists in foxholes. None in hell, either. The belief that there are no atheists in foxholes comes from the idea that when the bombs are falling, we all return to Jesus and start putting our hands together and pray. This is fallacious in fifty different ways. If you are truly theistic, and you were in a foxhole and the bombs were dropping, you would be going, “I hope they get me. I am so ready for Heaven.” Instead, everyone puts on a helmet and ducks down to stay alive, which makes me believe that there are no theists in foxholes. Noah Lugeons, The Atheist Experience – 2019-Jan-13 No, theists can still try to survive & pray to survive. Only when they are captured & given the ultimatum of denying their faith & living, or openly confessing your faith in the face of death, determines if one is truly theist or atheist.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 23, 2024 20:23:31 GMT
The belief that there are no atheists in foxholes comes from the idea that when the bombs are falling, we all return to Jesus and start putting our hands together and pray. This is fallacious in fifty different ways. If you are truly theistic, and you were in a foxhole and the bombs were dropping, you would be going, “I hope they get me. I am so ready for Heaven.” Instead, everyone puts on a helmet and ducks down to stay alive, which makes me believe that there are no theists in foxholes. Noah Lugeons, The Atheist Experience – 2019-Jan-13 No, theists can still try to survive & pray to survive. Only when they are captured & given the ultimatum of denying their faith & living, or openly confessing your faith in the face of death, determines if one is truly theist or atheist. I never understood this logic. Why not, if it was the only thing to save your life and maybe that of others, just dissemble? You know you do not speak the truth under such conditions and so would God. The only people being being lied to are the wicked. At times during the period of religious wars in Europe historians have long realised that hypocrisy and dissimulation became not only ways of shielding oneself from real or potential persecution, but also a tool for social climbing. - Also, "if one is truly theist" is a Scotsman.
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Mar 23, 2024 23:08:50 GMT
No, theists can still try to survive & pray to survive. Only when they are captured & given the ultimatum of denying their faith & living, or openly confessing your faith in the face of death, determines if one is truly theist or atheist. I never understood this logic. Why not, if it was the only thing to save your life and maybe that of others, just dissemble? You know you do not speak the truth under such conditions and so would God. The only people being being lied to are the wicked. At times during the period of religious wars in Europe historians have long realised that hypocrisy and dissimulation became not only ways of shielding oneself from real or potential persecution, but also a tool for social climbing. - Also, "if one is truly theist" is a Scotsman. I would take her comments with a grain of salt. I doubt she (or other theists who post here) have ever been in the military or have ever been in situations like being in a foxhole during a war. They are merely repeating stories and rumors they have heard with no fact checking.
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Post by clusium on Mar 23, 2024 23:21:30 GMT
I never understood this logic. Why not, if it was the only thing to save your life and maybe that of others, just dissemble? You know you do not speak the truth under such conditions and so would God. The only people being being lied to are the wicked. At times during the period of religious wars in Europe historians have long realised that hypocrisy and dissimulation became not only ways of shielding oneself from real or potential persecution, but also a tool for social climbing. - Also, "if one is truly theist" is a Scotsman. I would take her comments with a grain of salt. I doubt she (or other theists who post here) have ever been in the military or have ever been in situations like being in a foxhole during a war. They are merely repeating stories and rumours they have heard with no fact checking. How about you? Have you ever served in the military or involved in a war in some way?
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Mar 23, 2024 23:56:21 GMT
I would take her comments with a grain of salt. I doubt she (or other theists who post here) have ever been in the military or have ever been in situations like being in a foxhole during a war. They are merely repeating stories and rumours they have heard with no fact checking. How about you? Have you ever served in the military or involved in a war in some way? Yes. 21 years in the military, with several deployments in war zones.
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