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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 3, 2024 14:02:18 GMT
I've been fascinated by this post-MeToo/Cancel/Woke era... things that used to matter so much one way, had a public hellscape trainwreck, & now meh... things that just don't resonate either way for much of anyone anymore.
Just list things as you wish... a list thread.
The Cosby Show - a softball expiry. Was cut from the re-run rota as soon as Bill Cosby's criminality commenced. Now, the show itself isn't even relevant anymore, no one is lamenting. I think that's the key to expiry- the utter void of lament.
Woodstock '99 - its third world production at the time - concrete airstrip(?) with no water or toilets... then nu-metal died... then the sexual assaults were public... & recently Kid Rock's beer war. WS99, it's into the ether.
Pete Rose - probably a hot take, but with this current publicly & pro sports acceptance of gambling, albeit with turbo charged consequence for betting as a player/personnel, the idea of Pete Rose as baseball rock god is well dead & gone. No one cares about his hits record - & maybe even Barry Bonds killed that because ppl only care about analytics now, including the pre-war analytics.
Kevin Spacey - he's still not in jail, & yet his critically acclaimed 90's arc is all but dust. His entire public existence might as well be 200yrs ago let alone 20 or so.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 3, 2024 18:05:42 GMT
Haha Pete Rose. Yeah--he did have a lot of media attention for a time.
The Cosby Show was being lifted by Cheers and Night Court and whatever else was on in that time zone. Family Ties?
Night Court is probably better remembered now than the Cosby Show.
Anyway
I was thinking about some pop culture stuff that completely vanished into the void.
A lot of the times you have to wonder if it ever had any popularity to begin with and the media was just promoting it for whatever reasons.
Harold Robbins came to mind recently--I watched a movie based on one of his books and remembered how he was always being talked about in passing and yet he seems to be totally forgotten--outside of a Star Trek IV reference. Supposedly he was the most read author of all time--but if he was--why did Hollywood dump him? Doesn't his brand have value? If you look up cultural references for him on wikipedia it has almost nothing.
I suspect his popularity was mostly media hype like pet rocks.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 5, 2024 14:13:12 GMT
I always disliked The Cosby Show. I think I would tape the opening at the tail end of Roseanne recordings and those stupid faces he made would make me want to pull a Bill Buckley and sock him in the goddamn face so he'd stay plastered.
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Post by Nora on Apr 6, 2024 2:49:04 GMT
I am still rooting for Spacey to make a comeback the world had done him dirty. No convinction no nothing yet he has been shunned for years now and lost So Much money and time because all of it it simply seems unfair.
Here is to Kevin getting back in front of cameras in Good movies.
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Post by amyghost on Apr 6, 2024 15:34:32 GMT
That Spacey was a ridiculously over-rated actor to begin with may have had something to do with his cultural demise. The public finally realized it.
Cosby would have reached his sell-by date around the time TCS ended anyway, I do believe. He had also risen too far above his mediocrity level, gotten pompous, and couldn't keep his mouth shut; apparently believing those phony doctorates gave him the authority to be Social Critic Number One. He was wearing out his welcome, and it's not as if he'd ever been that funny of a comedian--ok, but not legendary by any stretch. He just pulled the rug out from under himself the faster for not being able to keep his zipper zipped.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 6, 2024 19:25:25 GMT
Haha Pete Rose. Yeah--he did have a lot of media attention for a time. The Cosby Show was being lifted by Cheers and Night Court and whatever else was on in that time zone. Family Ties? Night Court is probably better remembered now than the Cosby Show. Anyway I was thinking about some pop culture stuff that completely vanished into the void. A lot of the times you have to wonder if it ever had any popularity to begin with and the media was just promoting it for whatever reasons. Harold Robbins came to mind recently--I watched a movie based on one of his books and remembered how he was always being talked about in passing and yet he seems to be totally forgotten--outside of a Star Trek IV reference. Supposedly he was the most read author of all time--but if he was--why did Hollywood dump him? Doesn't his brand have value? If you look up cultural references for him on wikipedia it has almost nothing. I suspect his popularity was mostly media hype like pet rocks. I was never a huge fan of the Cosby show, but you're dead wrong about its popularity. The show was enormously popular. Read the article for more info, but yeah. And again, I never really liked the show at all, I couldn't tell you the plot of a single episode. Not to mention Cosby himself turned out to be a total piece of shit. But to suggest the show was somehow being propped up by the shows around it is laughable. The numbers don't lie.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 6, 2024 19:28:50 GMT
I've been fascinated by this post-MeToo/Cancel/Woke era... things that used to matter so much one way, had a public hellscape trainwreck, & now meh... things that just don't resonate either way for much of anyone anymore. Just list things as you wish... a list thread. The Cosby Show - a softball expiry. Was cut from the re-run rota as soon as Bill Cosby's criminality commenced. Now, the show itself isn't even relevant anymore, no one is lamenting. I think that's the key to expiry- the utter void of lament. Woodstock '99 - its third world production at the time - concrete airstrip(?) with no water or toilets... then nu-metal died... then the sexual assaults were public... & recently Kid Rock's beer war. WS99, it's into the ether. Pete Rose - probably a hot take, but with this current publicly & pro sports acceptance of gambling, albeit with turbo charged consequence for betting as a player/personnel, the idea of Pete Rose as baseball rock god is well dead & gone. No one cares about his hits record - & maybe even Barry Bonds killed that because ppl only care about analytics now, including the pre-war analytics. Kevin Spacey - he's still not in jail, & yet his critically acclaimed 90's arc is all but dust. His entire public existence might as well be 200yrs ago let alone 20 or so. It's no coincidence that you mentioned Spacey and Cosby. Add Woody Allen to that list, nobody seems to talk about him anymore, go figure.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 6, 2024 20:19:03 GMT
I was never a huge fan of the Cosby show, but you're dead wrong about its popularity. The show was enormously popular. "It launched the extended cast into stardom" Oh yeah, Lisa Bonet and Malcolm Jamal Warner
they had such big careers didn't they?
It's total BS-the media SAID the Cosby show was popular--not the same as reality.
The fact that the Cosby Show aired first meant that they were counting on people sticking around for the other shows instead of leaving after Cosby. That is because shows like Cheers and Night Court had their own devoted audiences.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 6, 2024 20:59:01 GMT
I was never a huge fan of the Cosby show, but you're dead wrong about its popularity. The show was enormously popular. "It launched the extended cast into stardom" Oh yeah, Lisa Bonet and Malcolm Jamal Warner
they had such big careers didn't they?
It's total BS-the media SAID the Cosby show was popular--not the same as reality.
The fact that the Cosby Show aired first meant that they were counting on people sticking around for the other shows instead of leaving after Cosby. That is because shows like Cheers and Night Court had their own devoted audiences.
I'm not sure that's how TV works, otherwise they would have put Carson Daily ahead of Jay Leno and Conan.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 6, 2024 21:05:22 GMT
I was never a huge fan of the Cosby show, but you're dead wrong about its popularity. The show was enormously popular. "It launched the extended cast into stardom" Oh yeah, Lisa Bonet and Malcolm Jamal Warner
they had such big careers didn't they?
It's total BS-the media SAID the Cosby show was popular--not the same as reality.
The fact that the Cosby Show aired first meant that they were counting on people sticking around for the other shows instead of leaving after Cosby. That is because shows like Cheers and Night Court had their own devoted audiences.
It was the #1 show in the ratings. That is the reality. They throw random episodes of shows on after the Super Bowl every year because they know everyone is watching the Super Bowl and many people will just leave the channel on after that. I prefer Family Ties, Cheers and Night Court to Cosby, but the fact of the matter is, Cosby was the anchor. They were paying Cosby more than any other actor on television because the other shows were carrying him?! Look, I know who I'm talking to here. You don't like The Cosby Show because it features black people. You don't understand how anyone else could like it, because it features black people. But facts are facts, the show was incredibly popular and successful in its day by any measure. Just be glad we don't have to see reruns on tv anymore.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 6, 2024 21:27:56 GMT
I'm not sure that's how TV works, otherwise they would have put Carson Daily ahead of Jay Leno and Conan. That's late night tv--people go to sleep.
I think people who came early waiting for Family Ties or the other ones would have come into Cosby Show mid-stream--and then that was used to claim it was doing well with Nielsen (which has been known to be unreliable for decades). The early 80s saw a big boost of black media personalities---Mr. T (Brandon Tartikoff said the A-Team was only made because of him--I am sure George Peppard was impressed with that admission), Gary Coleman.... Cosby was well-known in the US--he was everywhere in commercials etc. Fat Albert etc. But the idea that white America was enamored with it is nonsense--I watched the Cosby Show but I also watched the others on that night. If Night Court was a weak show, then it would have petered out if Cosby was the main draw. But that didn't happen.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 7, 2024 0:07:47 GMT
I'm not sure that's how TV works, otherwise they would have put Carson Daily ahead of Jay Leno and Conan. That's late night tv--people go to sleep.
I think people who came early waiting for Family Ties or the other ones would have come into Cosby Show mid-stream--and then that was used to claim it was doing well with Nielsen (which has been known to be unreliable for decades). The early 80s saw a big boost of black media personalities---Mr. T (Brandon Tartikoff said the A-Team was only made because of him--I am sure George Peppard was impressed with that admission), Gary Coleman.... Cosby was well-known in the US--he was everywhere in commercials etc. Fat Albert etc. But the idea that white America was enamored with it is nonsense--I watched the Cosby Show but I also watched the others on that night. If Night Court was a weak show, then it would have petered out if Cosby was the main draw. But that didn't happen. Sorry buddy, not everyone hates black people the way you do. They didn't pay Cosby more than anyone else on tv because he was a decent lead-in to other shows. Deal with it. Here am I defending a rapist from a racist. Talk about a no-win situation, I feel dirty.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 7, 2024 8:01:40 GMT
Sorry buddy, not everyone hates black people the way you do. They didn't pay Cosby more than anyone else on tv because he was a decent lead-in to other shows. Deal with it. Here am I defending a rapist from a racist. Talk about a no-win situation, I feel dirty. You are just triggered easily.
This current blackwashing trend didn't start yesterday--it has always been around. In little doses.
The janitor who sacrifices himself to save the white hero or Sam the piano player was just an early form of it. The Cosby Show was a more advanced version of the tendency.
Try to find white Americans today who talk passionately about the Cosby Show--now that is a challenge. But even harder is to find black audiences that favor it.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 7, 2024 12:55:09 GMT
Sorry buddy, not everyone hates black people the way you do. They didn't pay Cosby more than anyone else on tv because he was a decent lead-in to other shows. Deal with it. Here am I defending a rapist from a racist. Talk about a no-win situation, I feel dirty. You are just triggered easily.
This current blackwashing trend didn't start yesterday--it has always been around. In little doses.
The janitor who sacrifices himself to save the white hero or Sam the piano player was just an early form of it. The Cosby Show was a more advanced version of the tendency.
Try to find white Americans today who talk passionately about the Cosby Show--now that is a challenge. But even harder is to find black audiences that favor it.
Buddy, you're the king of being triggered. Every post you make is some wild sociopolitical theory based on your own racist views. Nobody talks about the Cosby Show because the guy turned out to be a serial rapist, it isn't rocket science.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 7, 2024 16:16:23 GMT
Nobody talks about the Cosby Show because the guy turned out to be a serial rapist, it isn't rocket science. Yeah and he was a serial rapist in the mid-70s so they knew he was and still promoted him as a family man. That tells you everything about the criminal underpinnings of Hollywood.
They deliberately built up his reputation and hype around him despite knowing what he was doing. They created his image, not the public.
White audiences in the early 80s did not write to NBC and say "we demand that our cultural images become more diverse and less white-focused." That would be as crazy as Japanese saying they are tired of seeing themselves represented in their culture. Or Kenyans wanting their media replaced with Koreans.
HP Lovecraft's observation about culture is correct--he said in the 1930s that taste was being "insidiously molded" by a "sinister exoticism" --
"books are preferred when they reflect an emotional attitude toward life which is profoundly foreign to the race as a whole. The preferred writers are detailedly interested in things which do not interest us, & are callous to the real impulses & aspirations which move us most. ...Whether our own representative authors do as well in their art as their foreign-influenced types is beside the question. If they do not—as is entirely possible—then the thing to do is to stimulate better & freer expression among them; not to turn away from them & encourage expression in exotic fields. This can be done without injustice to the admitted intrinsic excellence of the exotics & decadents."
Foreign influences get injected into the cultural stream and eventually eat away the native elements since there is no desire or effort to balance things out.
As we see with music--where rap has replaced most musical styles and even country and western is being forced to inject African influence--despite the differences between European and African vocalization.
That's why the current production of Romeo and Juliet in London is being mocked--they have so completely abandoned the native cultural sensibility that it becomes completely alien and chaotic.
Having a black Romeo or Juliet or even a tranny one is not the problem--the problem is preventing alternative native cultural representation from having its place. And the media does not want that because they see culture as a propaganda tool--not an expression of a heritage.
People can still understand Othello because the idea of a foreigner not fitting into a new society and leading to tragedy is demonstrated in the news every day (i.e. Eritrean migrant shoves girlfriend in front of train...etc).
And notice they only seem to be interested in promoting Africanization---they aren't as interested in making George Washington Asian or Latino (there is more of the latter --Terminator and Magnum PI, but not compared to Africanization).
They tried making Whoopi Goldberg into a movie star but it failed.
And if Cosby was so popular--what happened with Leonard Part 6?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 7, 2024 16:55:32 GMT
Nobody talks about the Cosby Show because the guy turned out to be a serial rapist, it isn't rocket science. Yeah and he was a serial rapist in the mid-70s so they knew he was and still promoted him as a family man. That tells you everything about the criminal underpinnings of Hollywood.
They deliberately built up his reputation and hype around him despite knowing what he was doing. They created his image, not the public.
White audiences in the early 80s did not write to NBC and say "we demand that our cultural images become more diverse and less white-focused." That would be as crazy as Japanese saying they are tired of seeing themselves represented in their culture. Or Kenyans wanting their media replaced with Koreans.
HP Lovecraft's observation about culture is correct--he said in the 1930s that taste was being "insidiously molded" by a "sinister exoticism" --
"books are preferred when they reflect an emotional attitude toward life which is profoundly foreign to the race as a whole. The preferred writers are detailedly interested in things which do not interest us, & are callous to the real impulses & aspirations which move us most. ...Whether our own representative authors do as well in their art as their foreign-influenced types is beside the question. If they do not—as is entirely possible—then the thing to do is to stimulate better & freer expression among them; not to turn away from them & encourage expression in exotic fields. This can be done without injustice to the admitted intrinsic excellence of the exotics & decadents."
Foreign influences get injected into the cultural stream and eventually eat away the native elements since there is no desire or effort to balance things out.
As we see with music--where rap has replaced most musical styles and even country and western is being forced to inject African influence--despite the differences between European and African vocalization.
That's why the current production of Romeo and Juliet in London is being mocked--they have so completely abandoned the native cultural sensibility that it becomes completely alien and chaotic.
Having a black Romeo or Juliet or even a tranny one is not the problem--the problem is preventing alternative native cultural representation from having its place. And the media does not want that because they see culture as a propaganda tool--not an expression of a heritage.
People can still understand Othello because the idea of a foreigner not fitting into a new society and leading to tragedy is demonstrated in the news every day (i.e. Eritrean migrant shoves girlfriend in front of train...etc).
And notice they only seem to be interested in promoting Africanization---they aren't as interested in making George Washington Asian or Latino (there is more of the latter --Terminator and Magnum PI, but not compared to Africanization).
They tried making Whoopi Goldberg into a movie star but it failed.
And if Cosby was so popular--what happened with Leonard Part 6?
Nah, you weren't triggered at all.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 7, 2024 18:40:42 GMT
Nah, you weren't triggered at all. You are the one who made a big deal out of it. I just pointed out that the Cosby Show was being propped up by three other shows that had little diversity. It's like the claim that the A-Team was successful due to Mr. T being in it and not Peppard and the others. It wasn't called The T-Team.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 7, 2024 19:24:29 GMT
Sorry buddy, not everyone hates black people the way you do. They didn't pay Cosby more than anyone else on tv because he was a decent lead-in to other shows. Deal with it. Here am I defending a rapist from a racist. Talk about a no-win situation, I feel dirty. But even harder is to find black audiences that favor it.
Is that so? I've seen and met black people who refuse to believe Cosby is guilty. I also think the Creed movies casting Rashad as the mom was tapping into nostalgia for that show.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 7, 2024 19:54:36 GMT
Is that so? I've seen and met black people who refuse to believe Cosby is guilty. I also think the Creed movies casting Rashad as the mom was tapping into nostalgia for that show. Yeah but they know who Cosby is--that doesn't mean they are fans of the show. He was known for other things--Coke, Jello, etc. Fat Albert, Picture Pages..
But it's not like All In The Family--Carol O'Connor was not known for that much before the show. Cliff Huxtable isn't that well-known as a sitcom character. Cosby was playing a version of himself. Archie Bunker is nothing like O'Connor.
The fact is that we are supposed to believe that the CS was super popular (not watched--popular) and yet it completely died after his sex abuse scandal. They did Cosby revival shows before that.
Watched yes, popular--no. And it was watched because it was part of the Thursday night line-up. The media claimed it was a popular night mainly due to the Cosby show. It's BS.
Debra Winger was getting a lot of media buzz back in the day but I don't know why.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 7, 2024 20:36:51 GMT
Is that so? I've seen and met black people who refuse to believe Cosby is guilty. I also think the Creed movies casting Rashad as the mom was tapping into nostalgia for that show. Yeah but they know who Cosby is--that doesn't mean they are fans of the show. He was known for other things--Coke, Jello, etc. Fat Albert, Picture Pages..
But it's not like All In The Family--Carol O'Connor was not known for that much before the show. Cliff Huxtable isn't that well-known as a sitcom character. Cosby was playing a version of himself. Archie Bunker is nothing like O'Connor.
The fact is that we are supposed to believe that the CS was super popular (not watched--popular) and yet it completely died after his sex abuse scandal. They did Cosby revival shows before that.
Watched yes, popular--no. And it was watched because it was part of the Thursday night line-up. The media claimed it was a popular night mainly due to the Cosby show. It's BS.
Debra Winger was getting a lot of media buzz back in the day but I don't know why.
So why was it in that lineup in the first place and what was gained by lying about its popularity or making Cosby himself the highest paid actor on tv? More importantly, were the Jews involved?
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