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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 12, 2017 0:45:07 GMT
Agreed. There wasn't anything special in the Black Panther trailer. Absolutely nothing that screamed out "You gotta see this movie!" I can see it now. "Black Panther was a joke. All he did was stand around and crack jokes while people died." Isn't that your mantra now-a-days. You'll probably give it a 0 without actually seeing it. Either way, I'm pretty psyched for it. Definitely looks to be a more grounded and smaller story regarding just Wakanda and not the world. Really look forward to Andy Serkis. I got a feeling he's going to steal the show. The music didn't sell me though. I agree, I'm psyched for it. I love how Marvel can switch gears like this and explore a whole new culture with a whole new dynamic. One of the best parts of this was revealing how Wakanda is this legendary city that's so well hidden. And they're really diving into the culture which is amazing. It's looking incredible.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jun 12, 2017 2:39:05 GMT
Why are you tormenting these poor DCEU kids, ArArArchStanton? Leave them alone. You know Wonder Woman stomped all over the Mummy this weekend and is likely to outpace most MCU films and Man of Steel financially? It is not a competition.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 12, 2017 3:00:32 GMT
Why are you tormenting these poor DCEU kids, ArArArchStanton ? Leave them alone. You know Wonder Woman stomped all over the Mummy this weekend and is likely to outpace most MCU films and Man of Steel financially? It is not a competition. I expect it to do well financially. No problems there.
In regards to financials though, the MCU has raised the potential earnings for all comic films by increasing the audience. To be fair TDK and other films have played their part. So comic films make more than they would have had they been made even 8-10 years ago. Saying it's made more than early MCU films doesn't really mean much in terms of how it should perform.
But I'm not intending to torment them. I'm not a DC fan at all but I am genuinely interested in their perspective.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Jun 12, 2017 3:22:03 GMT
Why are you tormenting these poor DCEU kids, ArArArchStanton? Leave them alone. You know Wonder Woman stomped all over the Mummy this weekend and is likely to outpace most MCU films and Man of Steel financially? It is not a competition. It's not what he's saying, it's where he's saying it. There's another board for Marvel news and commentary. The reason why people hate Marvel fans on this board is because you guys act all uppity like this. Why can't you just let it be for one minute? The DCEU has been controversial, but that still means people like it. Just because someone likes BvS or MoS or WW or SS doesn't mean they're children. Hell, the DCEU's thematic elements are more mature than Marvel's thus far. And that's coming from someone who loves Marvel.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jun 12, 2017 3:22:28 GMT
Why are you tormenting these poor DCEU kids, ArArArchStanton ? Leave them alone. You know Wonder Woman stomped all over the Mummy this weekend and is likely to outpace most MCU films and Man of Steel financially? It is not a competition. I expect it to do well financially. No problems there.
In regards to financials though, the MCU has raised the potential earnings for all comic films by increasing the audience. To be fair TDK and other films have played their part. So comic films make more than they would have had they been made even 8-10 years ago. Saying it's made more than early MCU films doesn't really mean much in terms of how it should perform.
But I'm not intending to torment them. I'm not a DC fan at all but I am genuinely interested in their perspective.
Okay but, keep it civil. If I see a Cyborg vs. Black Panther thread I won't be very happy. :-)
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 12, 2017 3:53:20 GMT
Idk. I think it was about the great advertising opertunity of the NBA finals. I don't think they thought about stealing WW's attention. Probably wasn't even a factor. Well surely they were aware of it. They could have waited a couple months and advertised on opening day of the NFL. It's not like a Black Panther trailer had to come out now. The NFL broadcasts games on Fox, CBS, and NBC and has over 9 straight hours of football on opening day. So not everyone might see the ad on opening day of the NFL if they're not watching the right channel or watching at the right time. The NBA Finals is only on 1 channel and it's the only game of the night and it's within a 2 and 1/2 hour time period so more people would see the ad.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 12, 2017 3:57:39 GMT
I can see it now. "Black Panther was a joke. All he did was stand around and crack jokes while people died." Isn't that your mantra now-a-days. You'll probably give it a 0 without actually seeing it. Like I said before, I'm always unbiased and never rate a movie (or TV show) until after I've watched it. The reviews for Iron Fist weren't good, but I've said many times that Iron Fist wasn't as bad as the reviews said and was certainly better than the boring snoozefest Jessica Jones. I'm pretty psyched for it. Doesn't look like anything special at all. Nothing that screams out "You gotta see this movie!" Definitely looks to be a more grounded So it looks like MCU is trying to copy the DCEU with more grounded movies.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 12, 2017 4:00:26 GMT
One of the best parts of this was revealing how Wakanda is this legendary city that's so well hidden. Just like how Themyscira is this mythical island that's so well hidden. So Black Panther is copying a plot element from Wonder Woman. That's not surprising though, since Wonder Woman is among the top 3 (along with The Dark Knight and Logan) highest-rated CBMs ever made.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 4:10:23 GMT
Why are you tormenting these poor DCEU kids, ArArArchStanton ? Leave them alone. You know Wonder Woman stomped all over the Mummy this weekend and is likely to outpace most MCU films and Man of Steel financially? It is not a competition. It's not what he's saying, it's where he's saying it. There's another board for Marvel news and commentary. The reason why people hate Marvel fans on this board is because you guys act all uppity like this. Why can't you just let it be for one minute? The DCEU has been controversial, but that still means people like it. Just because someone likes BvS or MoS or WW or SS doesn't mean they're children. Hell, the DCEU's thematic elements are more mature than Marvel's thus far. And that's coming from someone who loves Marvel. We've earned the right to be uppity, because of the way DC fans have treated us Marvel fans for a decade now. Also, no. The DCEU's thematic elements are NOT more mature than Marvel's in any way, shape, or form. Nihilism and Ayn Rand-style Moral Objectivism is anything but mature. Steve Rogers' "be good for goodness sake" is far more mature than anything seen in the first three DCEU films. The only one of these films to successfully achieve being mature thematically was Wonder Woman, and that's because that film was about not giving up on people just because they're flawed and often ugly inside.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 12, 2017 4:10:50 GMT
I can see it now. "Black Panther was a joke. All he did was stand around and crack jokes while people died." Isn't that your mantra now-a-days. You'll probably give it a 0 without actually seeing it. Like I said before, I'm always unbiased and never rate a movie (or TV show) until after I've watched it. The reviews for Iron Fist weren't good, but I've said many times that Iron Fist wasn't as bad as the reviews said and was certainly better than the boring snoozefest Jessica Jones. I'm pretty psyched for it. Not exactly. Iron Man is probably the most grounded superhero film there is without trying too. But Winter Soldier did it too, as well as Civil War to an extent, but unlike Man of Steel and BvS, it still embraced their characters and their mythos, which is exactly what Black Panther is doing. They could have easily made Wakanda some dark gritty stereotypical third world country, but they're embracing just about everything about Black Panthers culture and his mythology. It's not shy on making it vibrant either, but still managed to ground it and make it accessible to all audience members, partly because Black Panther doesn't exactly have any super powers, let alone any super powered beings in it. But hold up, I thought your main problem with the Marvel films was that they weren't too grounded enough. But even then, tonally-wise, you can actually put Wonder Woman and Winter Soldier together, and they're not too far off. They both have serious enough moments without trying to hard, but also small moments of humor and levity between the characters, and the action is pretty well grounded, though Wonder Woman had a harder time doing this because she's a God so it makes no real sense for her to use her fists, but they still pull it off well. So with people saying that Wonder Woman is like a Marvel film, they're not completely wrong
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 12, 2017 4:16:31 GMT
One of the best parts of this was revealing how Wakanda is this legendary city that's so well hidden. Just like hoe Themyscira is this mythical island that's so well hidden. So Black Panther is copying a plot element from Wonder Woman. That's not surprising though, since Wonder Woman is among the top 3 (along with The Dark Knight and Logan) highest-rated CBMs ever made. Talk about petty. Dude, just about every comic book characters and their mythology have one or two similar plot point to another character, and not just within their respective brand, but to others as well, and outside of DC and Marvel. In Black Panther, Wakanda and their people have always been isolated from the world. If you're really going to bitch and moan about that, then it really shows what a petulant child you are
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 12, 2017 4:18:25 GMT
The reason why people hate Marvel fans on this board is because you guys act all uppity like this. It's not just that they're being all uppity. It's also that they're being such classless sore losers. It's a lot like Kevin Garnett. When he was with the Celtics and the Celtics beat the Lakers in the 2008 NBA Finals, Garnett was bragging and talking a bunch of trash, which was OK since his team won the championship. Then in 2010, Garnett and the Celtics played the Lakers in the NBA Finals again and the Lakers came out on top that time. Instead of congratulating the Lakers on their win, Garnett acted like a total sore loser. Basically, Garnett is OK with being uppity when his team wins but he can't take it when his team gets beat. Same with ArArArchStanton, formersamhmd, sostie, and weirdraptor and many other MCU fans here. For years, they've been uppity and talking down the DECU for having rotten ratings. Then when Wonder Woman becomes the 3rd highest-rated CBM ever (behind only The Dark Knight and Logan), these MCU fans can't take it and act like such classless sore losers. the DCEU's thematic elements are more mature than Marvel's thus far. Agreed. The First Avenger portray WWII as a comedy while Wonder Woman did a good job of showing the horrors and brutality of The Great War. Also, Age of Ultron began with the Avengers invading a HYDRA outpost. But the HYDRA outpost was in Sokovia. So basically, the Avengers violated the sovereignty of a foreign nation by illegally invading that country and attacking residents of that country without provocation. And Tony Stark unilaterally decides to create Ultron without any discussion with or permission from global leaders. But Age of Ultron never addresses the ramifications of such an illegal act of aggression by the Avengers or a unilateral decision by Stark that endangered the lives of every human being. By contrast, in BvS Senator Finch raises the issue of the ramifications of Superman's actions: "To have an individual engaging in these state-level interventions should give us all pause." "I'm not saying he shouldn't act. I'm saying he shouldn't act unilaterally." "In a democracy, good is a conversation, not a unilateral decision." "How far will he take his power? Does he act by our will or by his own?"BvS is saying there are ramifications to Superman's actions. "We have international laws. On this Earth, every act is a political act." Does Superman act with the consent and will of the people or does he act by his own will (like Tony Stark does)? Are Superman's actions to be interpreted as American? What are his boundaries? What rules will he maintain or break? The DCEU's thematic elements are much more mature than MCU's. That's why so many people prefer the DCEU over the MCU.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 12, 2017 4:24:06 GMT
The reason why people hate Marvel fans on this board is because you guys act all uppity like this. It's not just that they're being all uppity. It's also that they're being such classless sore losers. It's a lot like Kevin Garnett. When he was with the Celtics and the Celtics beat the Lakers in the 2008 NBA Finals, Garnett was bragging and talking a bunch of trash, which was OK since his team won the championship. Then in 2010, Garnett and the Celtics played the Lakers in the NBA Finals again and the Lakers came out on top that time. Instead of congratulating the Lakers on their win, Garnett acted like a total sore loser. Basically, Garnett is OK with being uppity when his team wins but he can't take it when his team gets beat. Same with ArArArchStanton, formersamhmd, sostie, and weirdraptor and many other MCU fans here. For years, they've been uppity and talking down the DECU for having rotten ratings. Then when Wonder Woman becomes the 3rd highest-rated CBM ever (behind only The Dark Knight and Logan), these MCU fans can't take it and act like such classless sore losers. the DCEU's thematic elements are more mature than Marvel's thus far. Agreed. The First Avenger portray WWII as a comedy while Wonder Woman did a good job of showing the horrors and brutality of The Great War. Also, Age of Ultron began with the Avengers invading a HYDRA outpost. But the HYDRA outpost was in Sokovia. So basically, the Avengers violated the sovereignty of a foreign nation by illegally invading that country and attacking residents of that country without provocation. And Tony Stark unilaterally decides to create Ultron without any discussion with or permission from global leaders. But Age of Ultron never addresses the ramifications of such an illegal act of aggression by the Avengers or a unilateral decision by Stark that endangered the lives of every human being. By contrast, in BvS Senator Finch raises the issue of the ramifications of Superman's actions: "To have an individual engaging in these state-level interventions should give us all pause." "I'm not saying he shouldn't act. I'm saying he shouldn't act unilaterally." "In a democracy, good is a conversation, not a unilateral decision." "How far will he take his power? Does he act by our will or by his own?"BvS is saying there are ramifications to Superman's actions. "We have international laws. On this Earth, every act is a political act." Does Superman act with the consent and will of the people or does he act by his own will (like Tony Stark does)? Are Superman's actions to be interpreted as American? What are his boundaries? What rules will he maintain or break? The DCEU's thematic elements are much more mature than MCU's. That's why so many people prefer the DCEU over the MCU. And yet, they still fucked up the movie. I find with a sequel dealing with the ramifications of Superman's actions. It honestly should have been Man of Steel 2 and primarily focused on that rather than adding Batman. You can't deny that Batman V Superman was clearly DC playing catch up with Marvel
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 4:33:58 GMT
Last time I checked, Marvel hasn't lost. Last time I checked, Captain America: Civil War was the highest grossing film of 2016, and Man of Steel got its ass whooped by Ironman 3 just like BvS got its ass whooped by Civil War.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 12, 2017 4:46:10 GMT
well as Civil War to an extent Civil War wasn't grounded at all. Just look at Captain America's pathetic excuse for not agreeing to UN oversight of the Avengers. "The safest hands are out own." 1st, Tony Stark built Ultron, Iron Man and Hulk destroyed a city in Africa and killed many people, and Scarlett Witch caused a bomb to blow out the side of a building, killing many people who wouldn't have been killed if not for the reckless actions of the Avengers. So how is the safest hands their own when they clearly can't even police themselves and they've caused plenty of deaths and destruction? 2nd, can you imagine the ramifications of allowing an organization as powerful as the Avengers to go unchecked and have no oversight at all? Cap says Bucky wasn't responsible for his actions because he was brainwashed by HYDRA. Well, if Bucky could be brainwashed by HYDRA into committing murder and acts of terrorism, then what's to sop HYDRA or anyone else from brainwashing Captain America or Iron Man or the Hulk into killing thousands of people? That's why UN oversight is needed and only dumb MCU fans would defend Captain America's bullshit "the safest hands are our own" excuse for the Avengers having unchecked autonomy and only MCU would try to pass off something so lame as a valid reason to support Captain America's position. They could have easily made Wakanda some dark gritty stereotypical third world country, but they're embracing just about everything about Black Panthers culture and his mythology. It's not shy on making it vibrant either, but still managed to ground it and make it accessible to all audience members, partly because Black Panther doesn't exactly have any super powers, let alone any super powered beings in it. I've never read a Black Panther comic story and don't know anything about Black Panther. That's why I watched the trailer to see if the movie might be interesting. But I saw nothing interesting in the trailer and nothing that screamed out "You gotta see this movie!" I thought your main problem with the Marvel films was that they weren't too grounded enough. I presented in another thread 9 major reasons why the DCEU is better than MCU. I won't repeat it here. You can read the other thread titled "Why I prefer the DCEU over MCU". Wonder Woman had a harder time doing this because she's a God so it makes no real sense for her to use her fists, but they still pull it off well. So with people saying that Wonder Woman is like a Marvel film, they're not completely wrong Wonder Woman isn't like MCU films. For starters, you just mentioned that Wonder Woman is a God. MCU doesn't have any Gods. Thor is just an advanced alien from another dimension and not a God. MCU is afraid to embrace mythology. The DCEU embraces mythology. Zeus is the creator of Mankind so in DCEU Zeus and the Olympian gods are really gods and not just advanced aliens from another dimension. And Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus so she's a demi-goddess. MCU doesn't have anything like that because MCU is afraid to embrace mythology.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 12, 2017 4:49:31 GMT
Just like hoe Themyscira is this mythical island that's so well hidden. So Black Panther is copying a plot element from Wonder Woman. That's not surprising though, since Wonder Woman is among the top 3 (along with The Dark Knight and Logan) highest-rated CBMs ever made. Talk about petty. Dude, just about every comic book characters and their mythology have one or two similar plot point to another character, and not just within their respective brand, but to others as well, and outside of DC and Marvel. In Black Panther, Wakanda and their people have always been isolated from the world. If you're really going to bitch and moan about that, then it really shows what a petulant child you are No, I'm just showing that if MCU fans claim that Wonder Woman copied The First Avenger just because both movies happened during a world war (just like Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan and plenty of other movies), then they have to admit that Black Panther is copying Wonder Woman.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 12, 2017 4:58:19 GMT
well as Civil War to an extent Civil War wasn't grounded at all. Just look at Captain America's pathetic excuse for not agreeing to UN oversight of the Avengers. "The safest hands are out own." 1st, Tony Stark built Ultron, Iron Man and Hulk destroyed a city in Africa and killed many people, and Scarlett Witch caused a bomb to blow out the side of a building, killing many people who wouldn't have been killed if not for the reckless actions of the Avengers. So how is the safest hands their own when they clearly can't even police themselves and they've caused plenty of deaths and destruction? 2nd, can you imagine the ramifications of allowing an organization as powerful as the Avengers to go unchecked and have no oversight at all? Cap says Bucky wasn't responsible for his actions because he was brainwashed by HYDRA. Well, if Bucky could be brainwashed by HYDRA into committing murder and acts of terrorism, then what's to sop HYDRA or anyone else from brainwashing Captain America or Iron Man or the Hulk into killing thousands of people? That's why UN oversight is needed and only dumb MCU fans would defend Captain America's bullshit "the safest hands are our own" excuse for the Avengers having unchecked autonomy and only MCU would try to pass off something so lame as a valid reason to support Captain America's position. They could have easily made Wakanda some dark gritty stereotypical third world country, but they're embracing just about everything about Black Panthers culture and his mythology. It's not shy on making it vibrant either, but still managed to ground it and make it accessible to all audience members, partly because Black Panther doesn't exactly have any super powers, let alone any super powered beings in it. I've never read a Black Panther comic story and don't know anything about Black Panther. That's why I watched the trailer to see if the movie might be interesting. But I saw nothing interesting in the trailer and nothing that screamed out "You gotta see this movie!" I thought your main problem with the Marvel films was that they weren't too grounded enough. I presented in another thread 9 major reasons why the DCEU is better than MCU. I won't repeat it here. You can read the other thread titled "Why I prefer the DCEU over MCU". Wonder Woman had a harder time doing this because she's a God so it makes no real sense for her to use her fists, but they still pull it off well. So with people saying that Wonder Woman is like a Marvel film, they're not completely wrong Wonder Woman isn't like MCU films. For starters, you just mentioned that Wonder Woman is a God. MCU doesn't have any Gods. Thor is just an advanced alien from another dimension and not a God. MCU is afraid to embrace mythology. The DCEU embraces mythology. Zeus is the creator of Mankind so in DCEU Zeus and the Olympian gods are really gods and not just advanced aliens from another dimension. And Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus so she's a demi-goddess. MCU doesn't have anything like that because MCU is afraid to embrace mythology. I don't know why you brought up plot points of Civil War because that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the tone of the film, which is pretty grounded. Just look at the action sequence in the beginning of the film, the characters are put into serious situation and even Scarlett Witch accidentally killing those people in the hospital. Pretty dark for Marvel's standards. Yeah, I'm aware, I've read those reasons, and I debunked every one of them. I won't post those again, but I pretty much did debunked and provided evidence of why every one of those points prove you are just a biased DC troll. You're welcome to believe every point you made as they're your opinions, but heavily biased opinions as well. Dude, Man of Steel is a Superman film afraid to be a Superman film. It's even worst in Batman v Superman. They're afraid to portray Superman like he really is in the comics That's called being of embracing mythology. So what that they made Thor just another being from a dimension, they still embrace every aspect of his character's mythos and the Norse mythology. You don't even realize that he's an "alien". But as I mentioned earlier, I wasn't talking about plot points or characters. I was talking tone of the film, and as said before, you can put Wonder Woman up against Winter Soldier and Civil War, and their tones are very much the same. They have moments of dark and seriousness, warm moments and humor. Yes, Marvel probably has more, but even then, those saying Wonder Woman is like a Marvel film, they're not wrong because tonally, they did definitely tone down a little from Man of Steel and BvS. Allowed for a little more soft and warm moments and humor in it without negating any seriousness of World War I.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jun 12, 2017 5:03:38 GMT
Why are you tormenting these poor DCEU kids, ArArArchStanton ? Leave them alone. You know Wonder Woman stomped all over the Mummy this weekend and is likely to outpace most MCU films and Man of Steel financially? It is not a competition. It's not what he's saying, it's where he's saying it. There's another board for Marvel news and commentary. The reason why people hate Marvel fans on this board is because you guys act all uppity like this. Why can't you just let it be for one minute? The DCEU has been controversial, but that still means people like it. Just because someone likes BvS or MoS or WW or SS doesn't mean they're children. Hell, the DCEU's thematic elements are more mature than Marvel's thus far. And that's coming from someone who loves Marvel. It is what, where and how he's saying it. Not a shred of diplomacy. I'd say it was intentional malice if I didn't know any better.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 12, 2017 5:11:09 GMT
Talk about petty. Dude, just about every comic book characters and their mythology have one or two similar plot point to another character, and not just within their respective brand, but to others as well, and outside of DC and Marvel. In Black Panther, Wakanda and their people have always been isolated from the world. If you're really going to bitch and moan about that, then it really shows what a petulant child you are No, I'm just showing that if MCU fans claim that Wonder Woman copied The First Avenger just because both movies happened during a world war (just like Schindler's List and Saving Private Ryan and plenty of other movies), then they have to admit that Black Panther is copying Wonder Woman. I'm not going to say it's copying First Avenger, but there is a similar narrative to it and a few different points. I will say this tho, Wonder Woman is what Captain America should have been, that's why Wonder Woman gets away with it. But first, you got Wonder Woman joining up with a ragtag group of soldiers. Sounds like the Howling Commandos. Steve and Diana even met them in a bar, no less. And to take it further, the Howling Commandos are from the comics. Last I checked, Wonder Woman never really joined up with a ragtag group of soldiers like. So they were exclusively created for this film. Coincident? Maybe.. Then you got Steve and Diana traveling to destroy Lunderdorf's factory making the gas. Much like Captain America and the Howling Commandos are going around Europe and destroying the HYDRA facilities. Then you got Lunderdorf himself who's essentially an expy of Red Skull, while Dr. Poison is essentially an expy of Arnim Zola. Then you got the climax with the airplanes. First, the main villains intend on using it launched a major attack on an Allied city, i.e. Lunderdorf wanting to drop the gas on London while Red Skull wants to drop the bombs on the United States. Then Trevor sacrificing himself by blowing up in the plane, much like Captain America taking a nose dive into the arctic with the plane full of bombs, "sacrificing" himself. So yeah, narratively-speaking, there's a lot of similar stuff to it. Black Panther isn't the same as Wonder Woman though. Black Panther is about T'Challah having to deal with rogue faction within in own kingdom trying to upsurp his rule and he has to reclaim his throne and prove himself essentially. Your "secret paradise/location" holds no merit to comparing it to Wonder Woman. Plus, it's not an origin film either. You're grasping straws at this point by doing so
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jun 12, 2017 5:16:06 GMT
Do you see what you've done, ArArArchStanton? This thread has deteriorated into yet another fandom pissing contest. Your curiosity wasn't worth this. You've sent Raptor off to die for your sins.
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