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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 18, 2017 10:23:27 GMT
Charlie Manson was the "leader" of his "family" of followers and had considerable control over them. He managed their affairs. They were dependent on him. This is not to say they were blameless obviously. If a drill instructor in the marines encouraged a soldier to commit suicide it would be worse. If a doctor encouraged a patient to commit suicide it would be worse. My point was that the girl had no such power, authority or control over the boy who committed suicide. I'm not too familiar with this case but if it's the one I'm thinking of then the girl was a couple years older than the teenage guy she was dating, and obviously had considerable control over him. Maybe the kid felt dependent on her? Seems strange that you automatically assume that the girl had no power, authority or control over her younger boyfriend. She obviously had some. Maybe the boy thought she had authority. That was his mistake, not hers. I suppose everyone will be more careful in the future, authority or not, and that's a good thing. I do not see any sense in blaming the girl at all. Perhaps there are details to the story I missed.
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
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Post by islandmur on Jun 18, 2017 10:50:55 GMT
I'm not too familiar with this case but if it's the one I'm thinking of then the girl was a couple years older than the teenage guy she was dating, and obviously had considerable control over him. Maybe the kid felt dependent on her? Seems strange that you automatically assume that the girl had no power, authority or control over her younger boyfriend. She obviously had some. Maybe the boy thought she had authority. That was his mistake, not hers. I suppose everyone will be more careful in the future, authority or not, and that's a good thing. I do not see any sense in blaming the girl at all. Perhaps there are details to the story I missed. So you don't see how a depressed person calls you saying they are in the act of killing themselves (and you believe them you know it's actually true) and instead of stopping them you egged them on, when they hesitate you say "get back in the truck"... when they do and are dying you do not call their family whom you know, or the police or do anything to get them help... nope you just go on about your life, but yes you are not to blame. This is not as if she just said "go kill yourself" in a fit of anger and he did...if that were the case I would hold her blameless because to her it would have been just a figure of speech. This is definently not the same thing.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 18, 2017 11:22:31 GMT
Maybe the boy thought she had authority. That was his mistake, not hers. I suppose everyone will be more careful in the future, authority or not, and that's a good thing. I do not see any sense in blaming the girl at all. Perhaps there are details to the story I missed. So you don't see how a depressed person calls you saying they are in the act of killing themselves (and you believe them you know it's actually true) and instead of stopping them you egged them on, when they hesitate you say "get back in the truck"... when they do and are dying you do not call their family whom you know, or the police or do anything to get them help... nope you just go on about your life, but yes you are not to blame. This is not as if she just said "go kill yourself" in a fit of anger and he did...if that were the case I would hold her blameless because to her it would have been just a figure of speech. This is definently not the same thing. There are moral and legal responsibilities. If you believe a person is drowning you have absolutely zero legal responsibility to do anything at all about it. The sad state of the of the world today is that you can't tell who's genuinely having trouble and who's playing games with you, or worse trying to sidetrack you, or worse trying to kill you for the change in your pocket. I remember a world when I was growing up where people were far more sensible and dependable beyond their absolute legal requirements. They felt a moral obligation to help others and were genuinely helpful. If they saw someone drowning they would jump in the water without hesitation. That is unless there was some life preserver or line to make available to the victim. I think your attitude is from times like those. Even in times like those though it can be important to keep a clear head about what is and is not your responsibility. Even if the details of the story are as you say, the girl is not responsible for the boy. Even if some doctor tells you that you should kill yourself, it's still largely your fault if you do it. Of course the doctor is also very wrong, but the ultimate decisions have to be our own. This is the bigger problem I see here. People have lost all sense of responsibility. They aren't making decisions on their own. They aren't accepting responsibility when they do make choices.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jun 18, 2017 11:33:09 GMT
So you don't see how a depressed person calls you saying they are in the act of killing themselves (and you believe them you know it's actually true) and instead of stopping them you egged them on, when they hesitate you say "get back in the truck"... when they do and are dying you do not call their family whom you know, or the police or do anything to get them help... nope you just go on about your life, but yes you are not to blame. This is not as if she just said "go kill yourself" in a fit of anger and he did...if that were the case I would hold her blameless because to her it would have been just a figure of speech. This is definently not the same thing. If you believe a person is drowning you have absolutely zero legal responsibility to do anything at all about it. The sad state of the of the world today is that you can't tell who's genuinely having trouble and who's playing games with you... I pretty much agree with mur here, but this comment of yours reminds me of Stevie Smith's Not Waving but Drowning
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 18, 2017 12:07:39 GMT
If you believe a person is drowning you have absolutely zero legal responsibility to do anything at all about it. The sad state of the of the world today is that you can't tell who's genuinely having trouble and who's playing games with you... I pretty much agree with mur here, but this comment of yours reminds me of Stevie Smith's Not Waving but Drowning I might agree with you a bit more if it was the boy who encouraged the girl to commit suicide. Where I grew up if anything went wrong it was always the male's fault regardless what else. Notice how women's rights come with responsibilities? Even at that though, there are people who would argue it's not the boy's fault in that scenario where he's the one encouraging suicide. Strange world.
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 18, 2017 12:12:09 GMT
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jun 18, 2017 15:35:51 GMT
I might agree with you a bit more if it was the boy who encouraged the girl to commit suicide. Where I grew up if anything went wrong it was always the male's fault regardless what else. Notice how women's rights come with responsibilities? Even at that though, there are people who would argue it's not the boy's fault in that scenario where he's the one encouraging suicide. Strange world. Did you read the poem I linked to? Your last post reminded me of it.
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
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Post by islandmur on Jun 18, 2017 17:22:22 GMT
So you don't see how a depressed person calls you saying they are in the act of killing themselves (and you believe them you know it's actually true) and instead of stopping them you egged them on, when they hesitate you say "get back in the truck"... when they do and are dying you do not call their family whom you know, or the police or do anything to get them help... nope you just go on about your life, but yes you are not to blame. This is not as if she just said "go kill yourself" in a fit of anger and he did...if that were the case I would hold her blameless because to her it would have been just a figure of speech. This is definently not the same thing. There are moral and legal responsibilities. If you believe a person is drowning you have absolutely zero legal responsibility to do anything at all about it. The sad state of the of the world today is that you can't tell who's genuinely having trouble and who's playing games with you, or worse trying to sidetrack you, or worse trying to kill you for the change in your pocket. I remember a world when I was growing up where people were far more sensible and dependable beyond their absolute legal requirements. They felt a moral obligation to help others and were genuinely helpful. If they saw someone drowning they would jump in the water without hesitation. That is unless there was some life preserver or line to make available to the victim. I think your attitude is from times like those. Even in times like those though it can be important to keep a clear head about what is and is not your responsibility. Even if the details of the story are as you say, the girl is not responsible for the boy. Even if some doctor tells you that you should kill yourself, it's still largely your fault if you do it. Of course the doctor is also very wrong, but the ultimate decisions have to be our own. This is the bigger problem I see here. People have lost all sense of responsibility. They aren't making decisions on their own. They aren't accepting responsibility when they do make choices. I am really baffled that there is no law to assist people in danger, I had pretty much thought that one was enacted after that murder in new york where a lady (old crime) was killed and 48 or something people saw it but no one did anything about it... Of course everyone should be held responsible for their actions , however more than one person can be held responsible for a situation. She is being held accountable for her own actions.
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Jun 19, 2017 13:35:46 GMT
She pressured an emotionally fragile person into killing himself so she could bask in the sympathy offered her. I'm pretty sure that should be considered on a par with manslaughter even if it legally doesn't quite fit.
Having said that, she seems pretty mentally ill herself judging by the psychiatrist's testimony. Pretty unfortunate all round. She probably needs serious psychiatric treatment rather than prison.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 16:35:26 GMT
Link bro? Quote me saying EXACTLY that. Or I'm going to follow you around this board and ask you this question on every thread you post in until you produce the quote or withdraw the claim. You never said "eat a dick... There it is... the reason Blade remembers this quote.
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 20, 2017 19:55:32 GMT
tpfkar Join in? That's your constant shtick! gadreel said: "meantime bitchlad has spent two weeks hiding from the lies he told about me.
does anyone think this guy has any credibility, I mean aside from Erjen."
whisperkitten, God's tweet filter
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
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Post by islandmur on Jun 20, 2017 23:30:59 GMT
She pressured an emotionally fragile person into killing himself so she could bask in the sympathy offered her. I'm pretty sure that should be considered on a par with manslaughter even if it legally doesn't quite fit. Having said that, she seems pretty mentally ill herself judging by the psychiatrist's testimony. Pretty unfortunate all round. She probably needs serious psychiatric treatment rather than prison. i can agree with this, because she must be disturbed also to have acted that way.
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