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Post by Skaathar on Jul 6, 2017 19:35:15 GMT
is because the way the MCU has portrayed Black Widow is ridiculously boring. I don't know if Scarjo is to be blamed or the directors that handle her character or Kevin Feige himself, but the MCU version of Black Widow is so vanilla. They took out her teeth and claws so to speak. She doesn't look intriguing, she lacks the exoticness of her comic counterpart, she lacks the mystery and the allure. She doesn't have a commanding or hard-edged presence, it doesn't seem believable that she really does have that much red in ledger. You don't buy the fact that she's supposed to be SHIELD's top agent, not when you have such badass agents like May, Bobbie, Skye, Ward and even Rumlow running around.
Sure she can kick ass, but she doesn't even feel that badass when she's doing it. You know she's only kicking ass because the plot demanded it, you don't get the feeling that she's really that good.
And so... could you really blame marvel for not wanting to make a movie about a character this bland?
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jul 6, 2017 20:18:11 GMT
i agree with this - and the "I can't have kids, I feel like a monster, please play hide-the-zucchini with me, Hulk" business added insult to bland injury. The Marvel PTB are right in deciding to try a fresh start with a new character like Cap Marvel. Actually, the only MCU film I look forward to with genuine interest how it will turn out.  |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 6, 2017 20:29:47 GMT
I don't really agree with any of that. I do buy that she's one of shield's top agents and that she has red in her ledger, it's just that she isn't all that powerful and like in the comics, can't add all that much to a larger narrative.
She's supposed to be the way she is in the films, and she's not supposed to be a driving force.
That's why she's not getting a movie. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 6, 2017 20:37:42 GMT
I don't really agree with any of that. I do buy that she's one of shield's top agents and that she has red in her ledger, it's just that she isn't all that powerful and like in the comics, can't add all that much to a larger narrative.
She's supposed to be the way she is in the films, and she's not supposed to be a driving force.
That's why she's not getting a movie. I'm not surprised that you disagree. I don't think you'd agree to anything said about the MCU that's even remotely negative. |
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Jul 6, 2017 22:08:21 GMT
I don't really agree with any of that. I do buy that she's one of shield's top agents and that she has red in her ledger, it's just that she isn't all that powerful and like in the comics, can't add all that much to a larger narrative.
She's supposed to be the way she is in the films, and she's not supposed to be a driving force.
That's why she's not getting a movie. I'm not surprised that you disagree. I don't think you'd agree to anything said about the MCU that's even remotely negative. But he does agree with you in the long run. And I disagree with you both. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 6, 2017 22:23:40 GMT
I'm not surprised that you disagree. I don't think you'd agree to anything said about the MCU that's even remotely negative. I don't think it's even about anything negative in the MCU. It's about who she is as a character. She's just never been a major player, so honestly don't understand why anybody expects her to be now. They weren't going to change their plans simply because she's popular.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 6, 2017 22:45:30 GMT
I'm not surprised that you disagree. I don't think you'd agree to anything said about the MCU that's even remotely negative. I don't think it's even about anything negative in the MCU. It's about who she is as a character. She's just never been a major player, so honestly don't understand why anybody expects her to be now. They weren't going to change their plans simply because she's popular.
Well, have you seen the Ultimate Avengers animated movie? If that was how Black Widow was portrayed in the MCU, I do believe that would make her an interesting enough character that a solo movie would be justified. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 6, 2017 22:50:59 GMT
Well, have you seen the Ultimate Avengers animated movie? If that was how Black Widow was portrayed in the MCU, I do believe that makes her an interesting enough character that a solo movie would be justified. No I don't watch any animated movies. It might be a little different in live action though. She's not nearly as strong as Cap for instance, so in terms of what we'd be seeing, the action wouldn't be much different than anything you've seen in a Jason Bourne or Mission Impossible movie. And who would be her supporting cast? It's not going to be Falcon or Cap or Bucky because they would steal all the action. Hawkeye is really the only choice, but then you have to ask what the two of them are doing that's so important it needs a film, but somehow Cap isn't around. And they aren't going to do a flashback film, they just aren't. Basically it's an episode of Agents of Shield, and again that's why they aren't going to do it. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 6, 2017 22:57:59 GMT
Well, have you seen the Ultimate Avengers animated movie? If that was how Black Widow was portrayed in the MCU, I do believe that makes her an interesting enough character that a solo movie would be justified. No I don't watch any animated movies. It might be a little different in live action though. She's not nearly as strong as Cap for instance, so in terms of what we'd be seeing, the action wouldn't be much different than anything you've seen in a Jason Bourne or Mission Impossible movie. And who would be her supporting cast? It's not going to be Falcon or Cap or Bucky because they would steal all the action. Hawkeye is really the only choice, but then you have to ask what the two of them are doing that's so important it needs a film, but somehow Cap isn't around. And they aren't going to do a flashback film, they just aren't. Basically it's an episode of Agents of Shield, and again that's why they aren't going to do it. When you get a chance, try to give the movie a chance. Ultimate Avengers I and II. Black Widow there is far better than the live version. As for what the movie will do, well, a whole bunch of espionage that's what. Cap can be a guest in the movie, similar to how Hulk is a guest in a Thor movie, but the focus would be on BW and on things she can do that Steve can't: undercover work. Not every MCU movie needs to be big. A good espionage movie wouldn't really be that far off from the tone of the Daredevil netflix series. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 6, 2017 23:07:44 GMT
When you get a chance, try to give the movie a chance. Ultimate Avengers I and II. Black Widow there is far better than the live version. As for what the movie will do, well, a whole bunch of espionage that's what. Cap can be a guest in the movie, similar to how Hulk is a guest in a Thor movie, but the focus would be on BW and on things she can do that Steve can't: undercover work. Not every MCU movie needs to be big. A good espionage movie wouldn't really be that far off from the tone of the Daredevil netflix series. I'm not trying to cut you off, but I've heard every justification for a Widow movie possible. Yes, I know everybody who wants one can dream up a way it works. Yes I know it would be spy themed. That's not really saying much. The fact remains, they aren't doing one, and there's a reason. Nobody who wants a Widow will listen to that reason, they just respond with ways they think it can work, but the reason still exists, and they haven't made one because of it. The only chance it has is that phase 4 will give them an excuse to do whatever they want. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 6, 2017 23:40:53 GMT
^ You should still give those two animated movies a chance. They're not bad movies.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jul 7, 2017 1:28:53 GMT
^ You should still give those two animated movies a chance. They're not bad movies. He never will. He's too closed-minded and MCU obsessed to step even one toe outside of his comfort zone. His literal lust for the MCU is questionable at best; it's possible he gratifies himself while looking at box office numbers for MCU movies. To employ the Trumpian parlance, he is a "bad (or sick) guy." |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 16:40:24 GMT
I have my own opinion Wich is this:
I have no real interest in seeing a bw movie because it would be a spy movie without any need to be a super hero movie. I think it would come off as a bournish ripoff.
That being said, I think it's marvels fault for not giving her the proper background in the movies, with some kind of super serum or something. That being said, at the time they were still seeing what worked best and keep it explainable. We are now past that. Even Thor is an alien instead of you know, a God, and at the time it made the most sense. The explanation for bw is boring, she is highly skilled that's it. I don't want to see that.
That being said if they were open to change things a bit and present something more super heroy I would give them a chance. I just wish Captain Marvel was on the avengers since the beginning instead of BW.
Well it's the price you pay for being the first doing stuff like this.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 7, 2017 17:17:36 GMT
I have my own opinion Wich is this: I have no real interest in seeing a bw movie because it would be a spy movie without any need to be a super hero movie. I think it would come off as a bournish ripoff. That being said, I think it's marvels fault for not giving her the proper background in the movies, with some kind of super serum or something. That being said, at the time they were still seeing what worked best and keep it explainable. We are now past that. Even Thor is an alien instead of you know, a God, and at the time it made the most sense. The explanation for bw is boring, she is highly skilled that's it. I don't want to see that. That being said if they were open to change things a bit and present something more super heroy I would give them a chance. I just wish Captain Marvel was on the avengers since the beginning instead of BW. Well it's the price you pay for being the first doing stuff like this. I don't see any price that was paid. The way they've done her has been awesome, and she doesn't need to be and isn't supposed to be on par with somebody like Cap. She is a weaker member of the team and that's fine. There's no price that was paid, that is what she is supposed to be. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 7, 2017 17:21:35 GMT
No I don't watch any animated movies. It might be a little different in live action though. She's not nearly as strong as Cap for instance, so in terms of what we'd be seeing, the action wouldn't be much different than anything you've seen in a Jason Bourne or Mission Impossible movie. And who would be her supporting cast? It's not going to be Falcon or Cap or Bucky because they would steal all the action. Hawkeye is really the only choice, but then you have to ask what the two of them are doing that's so important it needs a film, but somehow Cap isn't around. And they aren't going to do a flashback film, they just aren't. Basically it's an episode of Agents of Shield, and again that's why they aren't going to do it. When you get a chance, try to give the movie a chance. Ultimate Avengers I and II. Black Widow there is far better than the live version. As for what the movie will do, well, a whole bunch of espionage that's what. Cap can be a guest in the movie, similar to how Hulk is a guest in a Thor movie, but the focus would be on BW and on things she can do that Steve can't: undercover work. Not every MCU movie needs to be big. A good espionage movie wouldn't really be that far off from the tone of the Daredevil netflix series. Or make it a cross between James Bond and The Bourne Identity. You already have Bond-like villains in Ivan Petrovich and the Red Guardian. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 7, 2017 17:24:14 GMT
Or make it a cross between James Bond and The Bourne Identity. You already have Bond-like villains in Ivan Petrovich and the Red Guardian. The problem still exists that it just doesn't give it a reason to be one of the stories they need to make to continue to grow the MCU. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Jul 7, 2017 17:31:26 GMT
I have my own opinion Wich is this: I have no real interest in seeing a bw movie because it would be a spy movie without any need to be a super hero movie. I think it would come off as a bournish ripoff. That being said, I think it's marvels fault for not giving her the proper background in the movies, with some kind of super serum or something. That being said, at the time they were still seeing what worked best and keep it explainable. We are now past that. Even Thor is an alien instead of you know, a God, and at the time it made the most sense. The explanation for bw is boring, she is highly skilled that's it. I don't want to see that. That being said if they were open to change things a bit and present something more super heroy I would give them a chance. I just wish Captain Marvel was on the avengers since the beginning instead of BW. Well it's the price you pay for being the first doing stuff like this. Black Widow is pretty much a Russian super soldier. She's not at the Winter Soldier levels, but she is just a bit more than the average person. If you go more the superhero James Bond route than the Jason Bourne then you could have a good superhero movie. Also, bring out more Red Room people so she won't be having so many easy fights against guards and random soldiers. And I just realized something. Wouldn't the Bourne movies (at least the in universe background) be a rip-off of the Black Widow story? Treadstone is just the Red Room. The books only had Bourne as the person out of Treadstone. The movies did the same thing as Jumper and made a bunch of people with the same abilities... Doug Liman did both The Bourne Identity and Jumper. |
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Post by summers8 on Jul 7, 2017 17:39:59 GMT
simple maths.
they would never do a black widow movie because she is not just an interesting character. all the most interesting marvel female heroes are owned by Fox. X-Men women.
the only interesting female hero mcu has is scarlet witch and they cant make movie off her either because she is actually an x-men character, a mutant. who went on to become an avenger.
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 7, 2017 17:42:07 GMT
Superhero movies also don't all need to be big, world threatening affairs. An espionage movie would give MCU movies some diversity.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Jul 7, 2017 17:53:41 GMT
That's why she's not getting a movie.
She's not? Kevin Feige does not agree with you:
DEADLINE: You’ve got a bunch of characters in this movie from Falcon and War Machine and Black Widow and Hawkeye, who have so far guest starred in movies, with another characters title above the fold. Is there one destined to get a solo movie down the line?
FEIGE: We’ve announced the next nine movies, 10 counting Civil War, through the end of 2019. Where we go beyond that are ongoing discussions that we’ll focus on in the next few years because we have a lot to do before then. Of the characters that you’ve just mentioned I would say certainly the one creatively and emotionally that we are most committing to doing is Black Widow. |
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