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Post by DSDSquared on Jul 10, 2017 12:02:02 GMT
Well the first Amazing Spiderman is like the Godfather compared to part 2, if you can believe it.
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Post by miike80 on Jul 10, 2017 12:28:11 GMT
Well the first Amazing Spiderman is like the Godfather compared to part 2, if you can believe it. Rhino is certainly a contender for the worst villain, even tho he hardly features in the film |
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Post by merh on Jul 10, 2017 13:28:02 GMT
But that IS Peter Parker's life. He tries to do the right thing as Spider-Man but don't see a dime for it outside of selling pics of his work. His vigilante work DOES interfere with his real life. He doesn't get his laundry done. He misses dates. He fails to study for tests. It's what drew me to the character. His life isn't neat & clean like Clark Kent's or Bruce Wayne's. We see Peter Parker as much as we see Spider-Man. Spider-Man is the secret identity unlike Clark Kent being the safe refuge for Kal El to hide in. It wasn't Tom Holland's life. Being Spiderman got in the way, but he didn't spend the whole movie crying about how he couldn't ask anybody to the dance even. There's a difference I'm trying to point out. Homecoming is the beginning. He's 15, still in school. He is still excited, but it is impacting his life. He is in the "it doesn't matter, I'm doing good" mode. The Spiderman of Raimi's set was the one I read. He made his own costume. He wasn't involved with Stark or Shield or any of it. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 10, 2017 13:59:26 GMT
Homecoming is the beginning. He's 15, still in school. He is still excited, but it is impacting his life. He is in the "it doesn't matter, I'm doing good" mode. The Spiderman of Raimi's set was the one I read. He made his own costume. He wasn't involved with Stark or Shield or any of it. I get it, but I still want to skip most of the Peter scenes in the Raimi series because he's either such a crybaby or it's just so depressing. The hopeful fun Peter is so much better in Homecoming IMO. |
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Post by charzhino on Jul 10, 2017 14:30:09 GMT
Homecoming is the beginning. He's 15, still in school. He is still excited, but it is impacting his life. He is in the "it doesn't matter, I'm doing good" mode. The Spiderman of Raimi's set was the one I read. He made his own costume. He wasn't involved with Stark or Shield or any of it. I get it, but I still want to skip most of the Peter scenes in the Raimi series because he's either such a crybaby or it's just so depressing. The hopeful fun Peter is so much better in Homecoming IMO. And there we have it. You prefer the Peter Parker thats more childlike and has things fed to him on a silver spoon. Nothing wrong with that. But in your opening post you are trying to illustrate that SMH is a better movie than SM2, but you haven't actually given any structural points to show that. When you said that Captain America First Avenger was a better movie than Wonder Woman, you made good points to justify it. But here, its just come down to your personal taste that you didnt like the more serious tone in SM2 and preferred the more light hearted SMH. Sorry but tone doesn't make one movie better than the other, its how they are executed that counts. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 10, 2017 14:43:50 GMT
I get it, but I still want to skip most of the Peter scenes in the Raimi series because he's either such a crybaby or it's just so depressing. The hopeful fun Peter is so much better in Homecoming IMO. And there we have it. You prefer the Peter Parker thats more childlike and has things fed to him on a silver spoon. Nothing wrong with that. But in your opening post you are trying to illustrate that SMH is a better movie than SM2, but you haven't actually given any structural points to show that. When you said that Captain America First Avenger was a better movie than Wonder Woman, you made good points to justify it. But here, its just come down to your personal taste that you didnt like the more serious tone in SM2 and preferred the more light hearted SMH. Sorry but tone doesn't make one movie better than the other, its how they are executed that counts. I prefer a fun Peter Parker.
And yes, tone can make one movie better than another, but that isn't the only point I had to make, just the one we were discussing currently. Don't jump to conclusions.
So here we have it,,
The structure that makes this better is not some random experiment the new bad guy is working on, but rather the circumstances of the entire MCU that have effected both characters. And in a similar way, how both do represent the common person, which is highlighted spectacularly when Vulture is stalling, but making an appeal to Peter that he is a victim of the system. Another is that Peter is proactive here, with a goal, he's wanting to get better, he's wanting to grow up, he's wanting to make a difference, and he's not just sitting around waiting for things to happen to him. One more thing I've heard is the great way in which Karen gives us a solid way to get to hear Peter's personal thoughts during any situation throughout the film.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 14:59:04 GMT
One more thing I've heard is the great way in which Karen gives us a solid way to get to hear Peter's personal thoughts during any situation throughout the film.
Hey, that was me!  ) Glad you liked it too. great time to be a SHCBM fan. |
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Post by charzhino on Jul 10, 2017 15:23:35 GMT
The structure that makes this better is not some random experiment the new bad guy is working on, but rather the circumstances of the entire MCU that have effected both characters. Its unfair to compare the 2 films in this aspect since the MCU has had 10+ movies before SMH to effectively set the backstory of Vulture up. But the origin of Doc Ock is natural too. He's one of Peters idols as a physics undergrad and hes working for Peters best friend, Harry Osborne. Wouldn't call it random, the personal connections are well set up without relying on previous movies. Someone like Dr Poison from WW is what I would call a random scientist. Yes thats a great scene and somewhat justifies Vultures evil actions in the context of what happened in New York with the Avengers. But Vulture is protecting his family, Doc Ock has actually lost everything. I would argue the scene where Peter and Otto are first talking at the dinner table and the final talk before Otto sacrifices himself to stop the fusion reactor, are equally a spectacular way to show how they also both represent the common person. Otto is a happy, ordinary man (like Vulture before he loses his job) and has a good grounded moral code. "Intelligence is a privilege not a gift, thats meant to be used for the good of mankind". But after losing his wife and his dream, he loses the plot. His turn is very reminiscent of Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde. How every ordinary man has an underlying struggle between his evil nature that he musnt let free. I would say Otto is a more relatable person too. Hes very humble and modest before the accident. Vulture is already bit of a jerk after he straight up punches that government dude. All valid points. But you have to remember Peter has the luxury of technology backed by Tony Stark and his dream is join the Avengers. I dont recall Tobeys character sitting around waiting to be reactive. Hes always putting his Spiderman duties first which is why hes messing up the rest of his responsibilities. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jul 10, 2017 17:31:56 GMT
The structure that makes this better is not some random experiment the new bad guy is working on, but rather the circumstances of the entire MCU that have effected both characters. Its unfair to compare the 2 films in this aspect since the MCU has had 10+ movies before SMH to effectively set the backstory of Vulture up. But the origin of Doc Ock is natural too. He's one of Peters idols as a physics undergrad and hes working for Peters best friend, Harry Osborne. Wouldn't call it random, the personal connections are well set up without relying on previous movies. Someone like Dr Poison from WW is what I would call a random scientist. Yes thats a great scene and somewhat justifies Vultures evil actions in the context of what happened in New York with the Avengers. But Vulture is protecting his family, Doc Ock has actually lost everything. I would argue the scene where Peter and Otto are first talking at the dinner table and the final talk before Otto sacrifices himself to stop the fusion reactor, are equally a spectacular way to show how they also both represent the common person. Otto is a happy, ordinary man (like Vulture before he loses his job) and has a good grounded moral code. "Intelligence is a privilege not a gift, thats meant to be used for the good of mankind". But after losing his wife and his dream, he loses the plot. His turn is very reminiscent of Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde. How every ordinary man has an underlying struggle between his evil nature that he musnt let free. I would say Otto is a more relatable person too. Hes very humble and modest before the accident. Vulture is already bit of a jerk after he straight up punches that government dude. All valid points. But you have to remember Peter has the luxury of technology backed by Tony Stark and his dream is join the Avengers. I dont recall Tobeys character sitting around waiting to be reactive. Hes always putting his Spiderman duties first which is why hes messing up the rest of his responsibilities. It's not unfair at all. That's what it is. Everything that contributes to it counts in my book, and that's the benefit of having a shared universe. It's the same reason I made a thread about why people want more stand alone films, which is something I don't get. All of these connections enhance the experience and become inseparable from it, which is fantastic.
You're right that Ock wasn't completely random in the way that somebody like Poison was, but I guess I'm just saying the integral tie of Vulture to being fallout of the events around him really plus the film. It's basically a continuation of Civil War. He is another result of everything that has happened, which is to me is significantly stronger than Ock having an experiment go haywire. Ock lost everything as a result of his own actions, while Vulture was doing everything he could do to be successful and still got screwed, which has much stronger appeal. I mean I haven't accidentally killed my family but I have failed despite my best efforts.
Tobey did go out and fight crime, but the only point I'm trying to make is that he wore his regret on his sleeve far too much. It's like he was on suicide watch all the time. You saw Tom regret leaving the party, but he didn't mope about it. There's a subtle difference there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2017 17:34:06 GMT
But that IS Peter Parker's life. He tries to do the right thing as Spider-Man but don't see a dime for it outside of selling pics of his work. His vigilante work DOES interfere with his real life. He doesn't get his laundry done. He misses dates. He fails to study for tests. It's what drew me to the character. His life isn't neat & clean like Clark Kent's or Bruce Wayne's. We see Peter Parker as much as we see Spider-Man. Spider-Man is the secret identity unlike Clark Kent being the safe refuge for Kal El to hide in. It wasn't Tom Holland's life. Being Spiderman got in the way, but he didn't spend the whole movie crying about how he couldn't ask anybody to the dance even. There's a difference I'm trying to point out. Perhaps a better comparison in this regard would be to the first Spiderman. Sequels often delve into the darker aspects of a character's life. Obviously I don't know if the Homecoming sequel will do this, but certainly an intro movie isn't going to be as weighty as SM2. And neither was SM1. |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jul 10, 2017 23:07:40 GMT
I actually agree with you. Just got done watching Spider-Man 2 and while i still like the film i felt like Tom Holland was not only a better Spider-Man, but a better Peter Parker as well.
It's easy to look at the films through nostalgia goggles (which i'm guilty of as well) Toby Spider-Man was pretty crappy.
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Post by egon1982 on Oct 29, 2017 19:53:24 GMT
Definitely the finest spider-man ever
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) Glad you liked it too. great time to be a SHCBM fan. 