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Post by phludowin on Jul 25, 2017 16:04:31 GMT
I don't require "evidence" for what I consider to be obvious in terms of morality and ethics. I'll take that as a "no". Thanks for proving my point.
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Post by general313 on Jul 25, 2017 16:13:28 GMT
I advocate the death penalty for suicide and attempted suicide.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 25, 2017 17:40:31 GMT
I don't require "evidence" for what I consider to be obvious in terms of morality and ethics. I'll take that as a "no". Thanks for proving my point. Your point was irrelevant in that it doesn't contradict anything I've said. It's not an argument, so your welcome?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 17:41:56 GMT
Have you ever seen someone suffering from cancer? Last stage? Why do you think that physical suffering is worse than emotional? Some emotional trauma can be helped and some can even be cured, but some people go through hell every single day of their life. Their life is unbearable. And no one not even psychologist or psychiatrist can help them. No meds, no cure. Just pain day in and day out. I'm talking about grown people here not teens or kids going through phases or rough times. Who are you to stand there and decide they are cowards for choosing to end their suffering? You do not know what they are living in. Like i said I don't advocate suicide and if I know someone is suicidal I will try to talk them out of it. But I will not blame them if they succeed. Sometimes I think about the 9/11 jumpers. They committed suicide but it really wasnt by their own choice. I wouldnt know what they were feeling exactly or the experiences they were facing but I have an idea of what they were going through when it came to the thoughts about death. If youre in a situation where there is no hope of getting out of I can understand why someone would kill themselves. Youre ending something that could be a much worse fate for you if you didnt end it yourself. I think people really need to understand sympathy in these situations. Therapy can only help with certain things, but not everything.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 25, 2017 17:46:29 GMT
Sometimes I think about the 9/11 jumpers. They committed suicide but it really wasnt by their own choice. I think people really need to understand sympathy in these situations. Therapy can only help with certain things, but not everything. Another stupid example that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Those people didn't commit suicide, they jumped out of desperation (to escape the fire). They had no choice! They were faced with certain death. Obviously not what I'm talking about.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 18:14:35 GMT
Sometimes I think about the 9/11 jumpers. They committed suicide but it really wasnt by their own choice. I think people really need to understand sympathy in these situations. Therapy can only help with certain things, but not everything. Another stupid example that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Those people didn't commit suicide, they jumped out of desperation (to escape the fire). They had no choice! They were faced with certain death. Obviously not what I'm talking about. I wasn't even responding to you or what you said. And there's nothing "stupid" about it.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 25, 2017 18:41:57 GMT
Another stupid example that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Those people didn't commit suicide, they jumped out of desperation (to escape the fire). They had no choice! They were faced with certain death. Obviously not what I'm talking about. I wasn't even responding to you or what you said. And there's nothing "stupid" about it. You responded to what Islandmur said (which was a direct response to me), and it was piggybacking off the point she was trying to make. So I have the right to respond to it!
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islandmur
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All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
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Post by islandmur on Jul 25, 2017 19:04:05 GMT
Have you ever seen someone suffering from cancer? Last stage? Why do you think that physical suffering is worse than emotional? Some emotional trauma can be helped and some can even be cured, but some people go through hell every single day of their life. Their life is unbearable. And no one not even psychologist or psychiatrist can help them. No meds, no cure. Just pain day in and day out. I'm talking about grown people here not teens or kids going through phases or rough times. Who are you to stand there and decide they are cowards for choosing to end their suffering? You do not know what they are living in. Like i said I don't advocate suicide and if I know someone is suicidal I will try to talk them out of it. But I will not blame them if they succeed. This argument is flawed and desperate and I've already destroyed it on another thread, but I'm happy to do so again. A) We are not talking about someone in the final stages of cancer! I love how this is the one example anyone can ever come up with to justify suicide: dying a slow and painful death! That is ONE scenario that happens to usually not be applicable to actual suicide choosers. B) I never said (or argued from the standpoint) that one type of suffering is worse than another kind. Suffering is suffering, and I don't believe that people should suffer intolerably. The point that you are missing is that people most often don't have to suffer when they seek help. And many of these people never seek any help. They turn to alcohol and drugs to try to escape their pain, and that inevitably leads to more depression and eventually suicide. I don't by the argument that some people can't be helped with counseling or meds. That's bullsh*t, they can. They just never get that help (sometimes due to their own choices). Suicide is the cowardly way out, and often a permanent solution to a temporary problem. C) That suicide is a cowardly act shouldn't even be a debate! But since you are making it one, my opinion is that it is. You may not blame someone for killing themselves, but I would! Especially if they have left behind a family with young children. That is just selfish and inexcusable! For the record I know several people who have committed suicide before (including my own stepdad). I'm in the military and I know all about PTSD, substance abuse, and suicide prevention. I've suffered from depression before and I've had suicidal thoughts before, so it's not like I'm talking out of left field here. You utterly fail to comprehend my point which was a comparaison between cancer and depression. Cancer is a slow and painful death... yeap and SO ARE a lot of cases of depression Slow and painful until death. Where do you get off saying people don't get help and if they did they would not be depressed? ?? I would like to see those statistics and numbers or studies that most depressed adults don't seek help. So you've been depressed guess what so have most people in the world these days . But depression like everything else varies in each individual. From mild to severe to debilitating. There is no one size fits all. Help helps some and does nothing for others, same with meds. Get over yourself. Good night.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 26, 2017 0:16:00 GMT
You utterly fail to comprehend my point which was a comparaison between cancer and depression. Cancer is a slow and painful death... yeap and SO ARE a lot of cases of depression Slow and painful until death. I don't believe there is any evidence to validate this opinion. I think think this is a nonsensical comparison because the only way someone dies from depression is by killing themselves by their own hand. People that have cancer don't make a decision to kill themselves; people that commit suicide do. So it's a stupid comparison that doesn't make any sense. Terminal cancer and depression are simply not comparable. Where do you get off saying people don't get help and if they did they would not be depressed? ?? I would like to see those statistics and numbers or studies that most depressed adults don't seek help. Then I suggest YOU look that up, and then provide that information back to us in justification of your point. Because the burden of proof is on the one making the affirmative claim. You are the one claiming that some people (who seek help) simply can't be cured! That is the entire basis for your argument in justifying suicide. So where do YOU get off saying that? Where are your statistics that prove this? What percentage of depressed people who seek help commit suicide? You see how that works? And as far as I'm concerned, if you cannot validate that claim, then there is no reason to assume it is the case. Especially when it defies conventional wisdom and everything we know about depression. Now, to answer your questions: "Where do you get off saying people don't get help and if they did they would not be depressed, question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark..." Most people with a depressive illness do not seek treatment, although the great majority even those whose depression is extremely severe can be helped. Thanks to years of fruitful research, there are now medications and psychosocial therapies such as cognitive/behavioral, "talk" or interpersonal that ease the pain of depression.Assessment Psychology (depression)"I would like to see those statistics and numbers or studies....." - Knock yourself out! Overall, only about half of Americans diagnosed with major depression in a given year receive treatment for it, and even fewer—about one fifth—receive treatment consistent with current practice guidelines, according to data from nationally representative surveys supported by NIMH.National Institute of Mental HealthStudies have shown that the most effective treatment for depression, especially for severe depression, is a combination of medication and therapy. Although medication can be prescribed by a primary care physician, therapy is generally provided by a mental health professional. These data demonstrate that among those having severe depressive symptoms, only 35% reported seeing a mental health professional in the past year.Center for Disease Control and PreventionUp to 80% of those treated for depression show an improvement in their symptoms generally within four to six weeks of beginning medication, psychotherapy, attending support groups or a combination of these treatments. (National Institute of Health, 1998)
Despite its high treatment success rate, nearly two out of three people suffering with depression do not actively seek nor receive proper treatment. (DBSA, 1996)
An estimated 50% of unsuccessful treatment for depression is due to medical non-compliance. Patients stop taking their medication too soon due to unacceptable side effects, financial factors, fears of addiction and/or short-term improvement of symptoms, leading them to believe that continuing treatment is unnecessary. (DBSA, 1999)Depression and Bipolar Support AllianceWhat do you have? So you've been depressed guess what so have most people in the world these days . Okay well then guess what, ANYONE of those people are consequently qualified to have an opinion about depression based on their unique perspective on having survived it, and you probably shouldn't dismiss them as not knowing what they are talking about, or assuming that they don't know anything about depression like you did in this thread. Capisce? But depression like everything else varies in each individual. From mild to severe to debilitating. There is no one size fits all. I acknowledge that. That fact doesn't alter my perspective about suicide though. Help helps some and does nothing for others, same with meds. I think "help" has the potential to help far more people IF they'd actually seek the proper kind of help. And I think the studies and science backs me up here. You try to do the same hun!
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