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Post by shadyvsesham on Jul 27, 2017 17:35:26 GMT
Remember back in the day "baseball was Americans game." What happened.
Lets be real, football has ran passed it, I MEAN we are talking 52 to 7 past it, we are talking Seattle Vs Denver past it.
Not only that NBA seems to have dribbled on by. 110 to 85 on past.
Honestly, Im seeing more people into MMA (Not this board obviously, you guys never give my MMA A shot you SOBS! IM jp folks). I see people into the Jones-Cormier fight. Woodley-Maia. Id say it moved past baseball too.
My question, what happened here? Are we just different now? Did the strike hurt it THIS bad? Was it the steroids and the goofy home run totals?
JC to hear from others.
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jul 27, 2017 17:55:05 GMT
Football has passed it (along with everything else) but the notion that baseball is fading into obscurity is one we've heard for years and it's an idea that is entirely baseless. That said, its popularity has not grown the way the NFL's has or even the way the NBA's has (although the NBA's popularity can be rather up and down).
Baseball's attendance, TV revenues and merch sales are doing just fine. But they don't market their stars as successfully as the NBA does, and they aren't as cutthroat with their players the way the NFL is (MLB's players union is infinitely more powerful than its NFL counterpart).
I used to argue all the time with that impossible jackass jimanchower on the old board about this. He'd say baseball is obviously dying because it used to be #1 but now football is #1, ergo fewer people like baseball today then 30 years ago. I'd simply explain to him that if 30 years ago, 10 million people watched baseball while 5 million watched football, and today 10 million people watched baseball but 15 million watched football, it just means that football is more popular than it was previously (and more popular than baseball), but baseball is just as popular as it was back then. He couldn't wrap his head around this, but he was also the most argumentative fuckface this earth has ever spawned.
There are always going to be people who say they don't like the long season, the long games, the constant pitching changes. Years ago, people bitched about the institution of the DH. Years before that, they bitched about having night games and letting black people play. So it's not like people bitching is new to the sport. People will bitch about literally everything. Doesn't necessarily mean there is a correlation between a sport's popularity.
But as others have noted, you're starting to see the cracks in the NFL's armor. Yeah, it's #1 but for how much longer? Youth participation is at an all-time low (and shrinking), lawsuits and further CTE studies will inevitably result in swooping changes to the way the game is played, turning it into a game of 2-hand touch and people are starting to change the channel on Sundays.
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Post by nutsberryfarm 🏜 on Jul 27, 2017 18:18:16 GMT
it's popular around here.
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Post by marco26 on Jul 27, 2017 18:46:57 GMT
klawrencio is stupid. He said this:
"...Years before that, they bitched about having night games and letting black people play. So it's not like people bitching is new to the sport. People will bitch about literally everything..."
Oh, he is right about people have always bitched about something. Yes, he's right, but as we know even a broken clock is right twice a day.
But he misses the point that what people are bitching about nowadays is a fundamental way the game is played.
-Instant replay to stop the game just because a manager takes a "what the hell" approach has fundamentally changed the game. - Twelve pitching changes a game has fundamentally changed the game. - Pitch count (in 1974 there were 1,089 complete games, in 2017 there were just 80) has fundamentally changed the game. - Interleague play (what is the real excitement now for a World Series matchup?) has fundamentally changed the game - Pitch count again...a star pitcher (Strasburg) was not allowed to pitch in his team's playoff series!...has fundamentally changed the game
The game is NOT what we grew up watching. I see a pitcher now mow down the three batters he faces in the seventh...and then I see the manager make a change to bring in another guy just to pitch the eighth. The game has become a chore to watch. A form of entertainment should not be a chore to watch.
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Post by hairybuttcheeks on Jul 27, 2017 19:11:32 GMT
sorry marco, but things change. all sports have changed with the times. you think a manager shouldn't make a pitching change to get the best possible matchup to help him win the game because you don't want to wait 2 minutes for him to take his warm up tosses?
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Post by granny on Jul 27, 2017 19:18:54 GMT
It's boring and not a sport.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jul 27, 2017 19:52:53 GMT
Baseball isn't a game that translates well to the "video game era". Football, Basketball even Hockey, can be boiled down into 15-30 minute highlight reels that you can watch on YouTube. With baseball you need an attention span, both for the game and the season. Attention spans, in the young, went the way of UHF channels and a rotary phone. Klaw hit another one, marketing. If Mike Trout was a household name like LeBron James...
And it doesn't appeal to the inbred brain dead yokels. See above...
The Great Labor War of 1972 - 1995 did irreparable damage to the game. If focused disgruntled fans in other directions just when the NFL was doing everything right.
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Post by marco26 on Jul 27, 2017 20:19:28 GMT
sorry marco, but things change. all sports have changed with the times. you think a manager shouldn't make a pitching change to get the best possible matchup to help him win the game because you don't want to wait 2 minutes for him to take his warm up tosses? Personnel changes are made in all sports. But they take zero time in the game. Hell, in hockey changes are made on the fly -- while play is going on! But in baseball it affects the presentation of the game. And what is presented to the public is thee most important thing about any sport...because sports are entertainment! You seem to forget that baseball is for the fans. If zero fans watch, Joe Girardi and his "pitching change to get the best possible matchup" is absolutely meaningless. Girardi can do whatever the hell he likes if he is performing before no one, but the sport would not exist if people did not watch. And do you really think people want to watch 12 pitching changes in a game? The sport is being hurt by 12 pitching changes a game. You can't see that? Average baseball game ran a tick over two hours. Now they are over three hours long! Clearly the big shots at MLB realize that is a problem because they have had committee after committee to look into it. When we were young starters went as far as they could (remember the complete game?) and a relief guy would work an inning or two. Now we have moved into not just 9th inning specialist, but 8th and 7th and middle relief specialists. I shit you not, there will be a day when a pitcher will just go one inning each. And don't laugh at that. Did you ever think we would see a guy just pitch the 7th, then another just pitch the 8th, then another just pitch the 9th? We see that every night! We will see 9 pitchers pitch a nine inning ball game. We are very close to that already. The sport has been fundamentally changed by this new approach to managing.
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Post by hairybuttcheeks on Jul 27, 2017 20:26:14 GMT
agreed. im just explaing why. strategy has become a bigger part of the game this generaton with shifts and pitching changes.
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Post by marco26 on Jul 27, 2017 20:31:06 GMT
With baseball you need an attention span, both for the game and the season. That is the common cop-out answer as to why young people people do not enjoy baseball as they do other sports. Fact is, that answer it is bullshit. Fucking LORD OF THE RINGS movies are 4 hours long each...and there are three of them! And the young ate them up. "Game Of Thrones" is now in its seventh season and the fucking Lannisters are still ruling Kings Landing. Nothing has changed in seven years! Yet people still watch. This notion of the young and poor attention spans is horseshit. Give them something good, give them the pure sport of baseball, and they will watch. Do you really think watching the ninth pitcher of the game throwing his warm up pitches is disliked because of poor attention spans? No, it is disliked because it isn't fucking baseball! Watching three umps stand around with headphones on to listen to a replay call isn't fucking baseball! Do you not get that? Hitting, running, pitching, a great fielding play...we all would love that. But another call to the bullpen (the tenth of the game) no one can like especially after seeing it for the 70th time in a month! You know how many home runs - the signature play in baseball - were hit last year? 5,610. You know how many pitching changes the fans had to sit through last year? 48,560! When the dull shit occurs ten times more than the good shit, Houston, we have a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 20:31:06 GMT
Remember back in the day "baseball was Americans game." What happened. Lets be real, football has ran passed it, I MEAN we are talking 52 to 7 past it, we are talking Seattle Vs Denver past it. Not only that NBA seems to have dribbled on by. 110 to 85 on past. Honestly, Im seeing more people into MMA (Not this board obviously, you guys never give my MMA A shot you SOBS! IM jp folks). I see people into the Jones-Cormier fight. Woodley-Maia. Id say it moved past baseball too. My question, what happened here? Are we just different now? Did the strike hurt it THIS bad? Was it the steroids and the goofy home run totals? JC to hear from others. Speaking as a Phils Fan, My heart is broken. There was no time in my life like going down to Citizen's Bank Park from 2007-2011. I attended frequently. The excitement and anticipation for a regular season game was off the charts in this town. You just knew they were going to kick the living crap out of the opponent and you just might get to see a dominant pitching performance as well. Fun times watching Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Howard, Utley, Werth, Victorino, Rollins, Ruiz. You had players and a core to 'root' for. The 'Bank' was a giant party on a nightly basis. Even if I didn't go to a game - just watching on TV or going out to dinner to a sports bar to watch the game was an 'event' after work. I remember Joe Morgan one night on a weeknight school night stated he had never seen a crowd that electric for a regular season game while he was commentating on ESPN. The team fell off the face of the earth. All at once. I've never seen a team collectively just get old overnight - all of them - and just fall off the face of the earth. I had hopes for the rebuild - unlike the Sixers - their really seems to be no hope these days. I watched Iverson take the Sixers to the Finals. McNabb take the Eagles to the Super Bowl. Giroux take the Flyers to the Stanley Cup. People state this town bleeds green. I don't know about that. Maybe because I'm a depressed baseball fan and I remember that electric parade in 2008 - and pretty much every electric night for 5 years - and now there's nothing. Ghost town. Depression. No hope in sight.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jul 27, 2017 20:51:51 GMT
With baseball you need an attention span, both for the game and the season. That is the common cop-out answer as to why young people people do not enjoy baseball as they do other sports. Fact is, that answer it is bullshit. Fucking LORD OF THE RINGS movies are 4 hours long each...and there are three of them! And the young ate them up. "Game Of Thrones" is now in its seventh season and the fucking Lannisters are still ruling Kings Landing. Nothing has changed in seven years! Yet people still watch. This notion of the young and poor attention spans is horseshit. Give them something good, give them the pure sport of baseball, and they will watch. Do you really think watching the ninth pitcher of the game throwing his warm up pitches is disliked because of poor attention spans? No, it is disliked because it isn't fucking baseball! Watching three umps stand around with headphones on to listen to a replay call isn't fucking baseball! Do you not get that? Hitting, running, pitching, a great fielding play...we all would love that. But another call to the bullpen (the tenth of the game) no one can like especially after seeing it for the 70th time in a month! You know how many home runs - the signature play in baseball - were hit last year? 5,610. You know how many pitching changes the fans had to sit through last year? 48,560! When the dull shit occurs ten times more than the good shit, Houston, we have a problem. Jesus H. What are the the most common gripes against baseball? "The season is too long" "It's boring" "There's no action, just standing around" All common complaints of people who can't focus on anything for more than 30 seconds. Maybe baseball should have CGI dragons grabbing fly balls and sword fights between managers and pitchers before a pitching change. The pitch clock will be in place by 2019 tops. Limits on pitching changes, never. I am agreeing with you, the pace of play in the game is ludicrous.
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Post by marco26 on Jul 27, 2017 20:55:13 GMT
Limits on pitching changes, never. Don't kid yourself on that. What will happen is number of pitchers allowed on the roster. That's an underhanded way of limiting pitching changes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 20:56:37 GMT
But they don't market their stars as successfully There was a recent ESPN report of the 100 most popular athletes and I think the only baseball player was Babe Ruth.
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Post by shadyvsesham on Jul 27, 2017 21:22:22 GMT
First, I wanna thank everyone for their thoughts.
I just recall so many stories, how it was "Americas game." Man, those days are gone. I think everyone made good points.
Is it "attention spans?" I remember reading it took fn 3 mins, 3 fn mins per pitch. That's a lot of sitting around. Yea, football, you wait a little, but not 3 mins (- time outs, and the last 2 mins of the 2nd/4th quarters seem to move at a snails pace, but you can watch a replay of the last play, some talking and boo.
NBA up and down up and down.
It does seem MLB goes slow.
I think pitchin changes have gotten out of fn hand. "Certain batter, we need a specialist FOR THIS ONE BATTER!?" Come on, we dont need this many pitching changes.
The entire manager comes out to argue a play. Some say replay will slow the game out, but listening to a manager and umpire argue for 10 mins doesn't?
Im a Houston fan and I sadly dont even know our players well. MLB doesnt seem to advertise their players like NBA or NFL. I should know our squad!
LAD and HA are doing great, fn fantastic. How much do I hear about on Undisputed or First take!? Never, hell the last MLB topic I recall was about the home run derby! The freaking home run derby!
SO I love hearing all the ideas. Again, in a way I find it sad, because it doesnt seem like the NBA/NFL are just ahead of baseball in popularity, it seems like theyve overlapped them twice Mario Kart style.
So now I guess, what can baseball even do to bring fans back? Is it too late?
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Jul 27, 2017 21:32:36 GMT
Limits on pitching changes, never. Don't kid yourself on that. What will happen is number of pitchers allowed on the roster. That's an underhanded way of limiting pitching changes. Limit the number of pitchers on a roster? Yeah, the Player's Union will love that. It's nice not having a strike every five years, no? Another strike/lockout will kill baseball. The game will be on a level with women's Badminton. MLBPA would never give anything in the way of roster limits.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 21:37:01 GMT
First, I wanna thank everyone for their thoughts. I just recall so many stories, how it was "Americas game." Man, those days are gone. I think everyone made good points. Is it "attention spans?" I remember reading it took fn 3 mins, 3 fn mins per pitch. That's a lot of sitting around. Yea, football, you wait a little, but not 3 mins (- time outs, and the last 2 mins of the 2nd/4th quarters seem to move at a snails pace, but you can watch a replay of the last play, some talking and boo. NBA up and down up and down. It does seem MLB goes slow. I think pitchin changes have gotten out of fn hand. "Certain batter, we need a specialist FOR THIS ONE BATTER!?" Come on, we dont need this many pitching changes. The entire manager comes out to argue a play. Some say replay will slow the game out, but listening to a manager and umpire argue for 10 mins doesn't? Im a Houston fan and I sadly dont even know our players well. MLB doesnt seem to advertise their players like NBA or NFL. I should know our squad! LAD and HA are doing great, fn fantastic. How much do I hear about on Undisputed or First take!? Never, hell the last MLB topic I recall was about the home run derby! The freaking home run derby! SO I love hearing all the ideas. Again, in a way I find it sad, because it doesnt seem like the NBA/NFL are just ahead of baseball in popularity, it seems like theyve overlapped them twice Mario Kart style. So now I guess, what can baseball even do to bring fans back? Is it too late? For me - it's not attention spans. Baseball can be a 'chess' match to me. Constant changes in pitching, pinch hitters, double switches. I use to love listening to a game coming home from school at night when I was taking night classes. Peaceful. Relaxing. Used to live around the corner from a 545 lake (state park). Used to love taking a kayak and paddling out to a desolate spot - being all by myself for 3 hours and bring a radio and listen to a Phillies game. Heaven. People call it dull and boring. To each their own. We have different hobbies and interests. To me - it was an 'escape'. The product is just so dreadful today as far as being a Phils fan - and for the past couple of years I've kept my eye on the 'farm' and watched prospects(??) develop (or not develop sadly) - sadly there is no hope. Had hope to build a young core like they did with Utley, Rollins, Howard, etc and fill in smartly with free agent money. This ownership just better throw the moon at somebody like Harper to at least peak my interest seems this young kids are bust - J.P. Crawford and Maikel Franco - I'm talking about you - amongst 10 others
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jul 27, 2017 21:41:44 GMT
First, I wanna thank everyone for their thoughts. I just recall so many stories, how it was "Americas game." Man, those days are gone. I think everyone made good points. Is it "attention spans?" I remember reading it took fn 3 mins, 3 fn mins per pitch. That's a lot of sitting around. Yea, football, you wait a little, but not 3 mins (- time outs, and the last 2 mins of the 2nd/4th quarters seem to move at a snails pace, but you can watch a replay of the last play, some talking and boo. NBA up and down up and down. It does seem MLB goes slow. I think pitchin changes have gotten out of fn hand. "Certain batter, we need a specialist FOR THIS ONE BATTER!?" Come on, we dont need this many pitching changes. The entire manager comes out to argue a play. Some say replay will slow the game out, but listening to a manager and umpire argue for 10 mins doesn't? Im a Houston fan and I sadly dont even know our players well. MLB doesnt seem to advertise their players like NBA or NFL. I should know our squad! LAD and HA are doing great, fn fantastic. How much do I hear about on Undisputed or First take!? Never, hell the last MLB topic I recall was about the home run derby! The freaking home run derby! SO I love hearing all the ideas. Again, in a way I find it sad, because it doesnt seem like the NBA/NFL are just ahead of baseball in popularity, it seems like theyve overlapped them twice Mario Kart style. So now I guess, what can baseball even do to bring fans back? Is it too late? 3 minutes between pitches would be rather extreme. Steve Trachsel was the slowest guy I ever saw in terms of taking his time between pitches, and at most he'd take about 30 seconds. Obviously that adds up over the course of a game, but still. It's all a matter of preference. I find, and have always found, the NBA game to be insufferable. It's like watching ping pong. Just never got into it. I used to love football but over the past few years, with the rule changes, the oppressive regime of Goodell and the owners, the thuggishness of the players, the me-first prima donna aspect that seems to pervade all of the skill positions and the general off-the-field drama that has taken over, I just can't watch it anymore. The war of attrition that used to take place at the line of scrimmage is nothing like what it used to be and now 38-35 games are considered "quality" games. Not for this guy. I have no interest in a game the outcome of which is largely determined by who has the ball last. But baseball never bores me. I'm sure it bores others just like Game of Thrones bores others. We like what we like. But this idea that baseball is dying a slow death is one that is just silly and there is no empirical data to support such a drastic proclamation. Attendance is a tad lower than it was 10 years ago but that's a natural ebb and flow (not to mention skyrocketing ticket prices - nobody mentioned that). If someone wants to take his kid to the game, he's spending $100 minimum between tickets, parking and food. That's insane. But no, it's not "too late." It's doing fine.
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Post by tristramshandy on Jul 27, 2017 22:29:06 GMT
Jesus H. What are the the most common gripes against baseball? "The season is too long" "It's boring" "There's no action, just standing around" All common complaints of people who can't focus on anything for more than 30 seconds. Maybe baseball should have CGI dragons grabbing fly balls and sword fights between managers and pitchers before a pitching change. The pitch clock will be in place by 2019 tops. Limits on pitching changes, never. I am agreeing with you, the pace of play in the game is ludicrous. I'm 46, and I find baseball ponderous now. I read about the game a lot, but I watch very little of it. I've always liked football more than other sports, but baseball used to be second. For me, one of the problems is that it is too ubiquitous. Back when you only had the local teams and the NBC Saturday game, baseball felt like it could be appointment television. Now it's always on, and I'm just not jazzed to watch it (and I'm a Dodgers fan, so it's not because my team sucks). If pace of play was improved, I would be brought back some. Always loved me some Mark Buehrle because he didn't dick around on the mound.
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Post by sdm3 on Jul 27, 2017 22:45:39 GMT
I used to argue all the time with that impossible jackass jimanchower on the old board about this. He'd say baseball is obviously dying because it used to be #1 but now football is #1, ergo fewer people like baseball today then 30 years ago. I'd simply explain to him that if 30 years ago, 10 million people watched baseball while 5 million watched football, and today 10 million people watched baseball but 15 million watched football, it just means that football is more popular than it was previously (and more popular than baseball), but baseball is just as popular as it was back then. He couldn't wrap his head around this, but he was also the most argumentative fuckface this earth has ever spawned. Man, no one was as fun to argue with (or bait) than good old Jim! Bring him back!!
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