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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 4:50:58 GMT
Hey thenewnexus, Marvel is still going to continue churning out hit after hit regardless of your inane whining. Deal with it.
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Post by thenewnexus on Aug 8, 2017 5:08:31 GMT
All Hail the King was a way for Marvel to cover their asses,an Asian actor was screwed out of a role same thing with Anicent one. Thats Dishonest to use Miles Pal and Uncle and not him. Marvel ate their words when they said they were going to be about Diversity but all the nonwhite actors are pretty much extras like in the last two series and there is littke nods to Miles,but hes not there thats just. sad Doesn't matter what the reason was to create AHTK, what happened in its narrative is canon with the overall MCU, and that is this - The Mandarin is a real figure, has been around for a very long time and has legions of worshipers in the form of The Ten Rings...And he is not happy at how Trevor and AIM used his name in the events of IM3. You haven't answered my question about The Ancient One - the character is not generally viewed positively in their portrayal in the majority of the stories using them, bringing them to the screen would not be anywhere as easy as you make it sound like. The Ancient One is an extremely dated stereotype that would not go very well with international audiences, hence they decided to change it and the movie worked in the end so they accomplished all that they needed to set out to do. The Mandarin is also not a positive stereotype throughout his publication history, why do you think various writers and artists have rebooted the character every couple of years? And it was never really down for narrative purposes, it was all a business venture to present the character differently and wash away the bad taste of their previous portrayals in the books. But again, The Mandarin( the real deal) was not in IM3. It's called set-up, they've established Prowler in the MCU and given that the MCU has no end date and they intend to use Peter as long as they see fit and if interest goes down for Parker but there is desire for a different Spider-Man then they can bring in Miles. Marvel has shown plenty of diversity in their movies and television shows and you know it. It does matter why All Hail the King was made,people claim there was no racism in Iron Man 3 but thats proof that there was racism There was no reason to whitewash Anicemt one or Mandarin,all that is a trick to defend whitewashing. When the heck are they gonna use Miles? 10 years or will he just be a side character? Luke Cage and Black Panther are the only nonwhite characters that are headlining,the other nonwhite characters are extras and minor characters.
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Post by thenewnexus on Aug 8, 2017 5:14:25 GMT
Hey thenewnexus, Marvel is still going to continue churning out hit after hit regardless of your inane whining. Deal with it Just like Michael Bay gave us 5 Transformers movies and now wants to give us spinoffs.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 8, 2017 6:06:56 GMT
Doesn't matter what the reason was to create AHTK, what happened in its narrative is canon with the overall MCU, and that is this - The Mandarin is a real figure, has been around for a very long time and has legions of worshipers in the form of The Ten Rings...And he is not happy at how Trevor and AIM used his name in the events of IM3. You haven't answered my question about The Ancient One - the character is not generally viewed positively in their portrayal in the majority of the stories using them, bringing them to the screen would not be anywhere as easy as you make it sound like. The Ancient One is an extremely dated stereotype that would not go very well with international audiences, hence they decided to change it and the movie worked in the end so they accomplished all that they needed to set out to do. The Mandarin is also not a positive stereotype throughout his publication history, why do you think various writers and artists have rebooted the character every couple of years? And it was never really down for narrative purposes, it was all a business venture to present the character differently and wash away the bad taste of their previous portrayals in the books. But again, The Mandarin( the real deal) was not in IM3. It's called set-up, they've established Prowler in the MCU and given that the MCU has no end date and they intend to use Peter as long as they see fit and if interest goes down for Parker but there is desire for a different Spider-Man then they can bring in Miles. Marvel has shown plenty of diversity in their movies and television shows and you know it. It does matter why All Hail the King was made,people claim there was no racism in Iron Man 3 but thats proof that there was racism There was no reason to whitewash Anicemt one or Mandarin,all that is a trick to defend whitewashing. When the heck are they gonna use Miles? 10 years or will he just be a side character? Luke Cage and Black Panther are the only nonwhite characters that are headlining,the other nonwhite characters are extras and minor characters. It does matter because it further cements that there actually is a Mandarin in the MCU, whether or not Marvel did it out of panic is irrelevant to the MCU's canon. The real Mandarin has not appeared in the MCU yet, we've only seen those who have ties to him but that is it, if and when he does show up more than likely he'll not be 100% like his comic counterparts - Yes, I used "counterparts" instead of "counterpart" because the character has gone thru so many radical changes over the years its crazy. Not because the writers and artists thought it would aid the narrative but because the character has not aged very well. The Ancient One hasn't aged well either, both The Ancient One and The Mandarin were created at a very different time and the years have not been kind with them, so changes had to be done, in particular with the Doctor Strange movie. In DS, The Ancient One is a title, not a particular character, there have been many before Tilda Swinton's character and many after. Nobody knows when Miles will come into the picture, but he's confirmed to be in the MCU. He does however have his own animated feature coming out next year, albeit having zero ties to the grander MCU. Misty Knight, Claire Temple, Quake, Melinda May, Nick Fury, Rhodes, Sam Wilson, Mack, Elektra, Ben Urich, Malcolm, Madame Gao, Heimdall, Colleen Wing...I can go all day. Then there's characters that are definitely going to play bigger parts down the road, like GOTG's Aleta and Charlie-27.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 8, 2017 6:21:24 GMT
General (later Secretary of Defense) Swanwick Perry White Deadshot Amanda Waller You were saying? Neither of these characters are superheroes. Deadshot is a bad guy. ^^^the art of conveniently shifting goalposts until the facts suit one's argument.
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Post by thenewnexus on Aug 8, 2017 6:41:25 GMT
It does matter why All Hail the King was made,people claim there was no racism in Iron Man 3 but thats proof that there was racism There was no reason to whitewash Anicemt one or Mandarin,all that is a trick to defend whitewashing. When the heck are they gonna use Miles? 10 years or will he just be a side character? Luke Cage and Black Panther are the only nonwhite characters that are headlining,the other nonwhite characters are extras and minor characters. It does matter because it further cements that there actually is a Mandarin in the MCU, whether or not Marvel did it out of panic is irrelevant to the MCU's canon. The real Mandarin has not appeared in the MCU yet, we've only seen those who have ties to him but that is it, if and when he does show up more than likely he'll not be 100% like his comic counterparts - Yes, I used "counterparts" instead of "counterpart" because the character has gone thru so many radical changes over the years its crazy. Not because the writers and artists thought it would aid the narrative but because the character has not aged very well. The Ancient One hasn't aged well either, both The Ancient One and The Mandarin were created at a very different time and the years have not been kind with them, so changes had to be done, in particular with the Doctor Strange movie. In DS, The Ancient One is a title, not a particular character, there have been many before Tilda Swinton's character and many after. Nobody knows when Miles will come into the picture, but he's confirmed to be in the MCU. He does however have his own animated feature coming out next year, albeit having zero ties to the grander MCU. Misty Knight, Claire Temple, Quake, Melinda May, Nick Fury, Rhodes, Sam Wilson, Mack, Elektra, Ben Urich, Malcolm, Madame Gao, Heimdall, Colleen Wing...I can go all day. Then there's characters that are definitely going to play bigger parts down the road, like GOTG's Aleta and Charlie-27. If All Hail the King is due to Marvel paniacing then thats a problem,they could of cast Asian Actors and make them differemt from their counterparts,different does mean cast white actors Miles is geting the short emd of the stick,he gets animated movie and only nods in movie universe. Bad deal especially he ll be a minor character or will only be the lead once Peter is all used up. Ben Urich - Make him black only to be killed by one of the most ruthless villians ok Quake and May - they part of an ensemble,Coulson is the lead Nick Fury - Hes a minor character only pops up when the going gets tough Rhodey - Sidekick Falcon - sidekick unless he becomes cap Misty - supporting character Claire - All she does is patch up the Defenders Elektra - Shes a supporting Player,will likely just be used in the Netflix shows likely won't get her show,pretty much just a crazy love intrest in season 2 who likes to kill. Heimdall - Minor character Coleen - had potential,but shes tainted due to going the cliche route by making her a love intrest. Malcolm - Jessica Jones neighbor? Homecoming was not diverse either A Asian Principle with nonwhite teachers A Black Generic Henchmen A loner girl thats black descent nonwhite acedemic team members A love interest of black descent who minor compared to the last two loce intrests A latino academic douche A Latino villian who may or may not been used in the future MCU needs to do better with Diversity.
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Post by sostie on Aug 8, 2017 9:49:21 GMT
Too much here to quote and reply to but my tuppence worth on a few things....
Miles Morales - I would have been surprised if he was the new Spider-Man on film, but maybe the main reason he didn't make it on screen is rights. Sony have the rights to Peter Parker/Spider-Man and Marvel Miles Morales. But they don't have the cinematic rights to Morales as Spider-Man. I assume if Marvel are to use Spider-Man, they have to have Parker as him.
Taking elements of Miles Morales storyline - Parker's friends are closer to Morales, what's the big deal. Marvel have mixed and matched the regular Marvel & Ultimate Universes throughout the MCU.
The Mandarin - it wasn't the Mandarin. Simple really. Is the accusation that they had a "white" (though Ben Kingsley's father was Indian) actor playing an Asian character?. Or that they changed an Asian character to caucasian? The only people who would have cause to complain are the comic book readers who know the character, and really their complaint should be that they didn't use a fairly known character, not the race of him. The fact is, it is not Manadarin - not an excuse...a fact.
The Ancient One - well they state in the film she is Celtic, so they are not whitewashing in the respect of have a Caucasian playing an Asian. And I can understand why avoided the wise old sage from the Orient stereotype. Is it any more or less worse than Deadshot, who is white, played by Will Smith?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 15:06:31 GMT
They whitewashed Mandarin and Ancient one In a way they are racist for not using Miles Morales,they have his best Pal and Uncle in Homecoming,why not all the way? The nonwhite characters are extras in Homecoming just with the name of comic book characters. There were nonwhite extras in the last two series. So much for the diversity Marvel claimed it achieved😂😂😂😂😂😂 No, because Miles Morales is a terrible character that should never have been created, anyway. And the DCEU is a million times more racist for having Cyborg as the only major black character by the time of the Justice League's creation. The MCU had Nick Fury, Rhodey, and Heimdall by the time The Avengers was released, and have since added a lot more. Also, they did not whitewash The Madarin, and The Ancient One was a no-win situation from the beginning. It was either go with the "old Asian master" stereotype or do something different. Oh, and by the way, you're wrong about everything else you've said about the MCU, too. How many members of the Justice league? Six? Well African Americans constitute less than 13% of the American population so one AA hero means that African Americans are over represented.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 8, 2017 17:25:49 GMT
It does matter because it further cements that there actually is a Mandarin in the MCU, whether or not Marvel did it out of panic is irrelevant to the MCU's canon. The real Mandarin has not appeared in the MCU yet, we've only seen those who have ties to him but that is it, if and when he does show up more than likely he'll not be 100% like his comic counterparts - Yes, I used "counterparts" instead of "counterpart" because the character has gone thru so many radical changes over the years its crazy. Not because the writers and artists thought it would aid the narrative but because the character has not aged very well. The Ancient One hasn't aged well either, both The Ancient One and The Mandarin were created at a very different time and the years have not been kind with them, so changes had to be done, in particular with the Doctor Strange movie. In DS, The Ancient One is a title, not a particular character, there have been many before Tilda Swinton's character and many after. Nobody knows when Miles will come into the picture, but he's confirmed to be in the MCU. He does however have his own animated feature coming out next year, albeit having zero ties to the grander MCU. Misty Knight, Claire Temple, Quake, Melinda May, Nick Fury, Rhodes, Sam Wilson, Mack, Elektra, Ben Urich, Malcolm, Madame Gao, Heimdall, Colleen Wing...I can go all day. Then there's characters that are definitely going to play bigger parts down the road, like GOTG's Aleta and Charlie-27. If All Hail the King is due to Marvel paniacing then thats a problem,they could of cast Asian Actors and make them differemt from their counterparts,different does mean cast white actors Miles is geting the short emd of the stick,he gets animated movie and only nods in movie universe. Bad deal especially he ll be a minor character or will only be the lead once Peter is all used up. Ben Urich - Make him black only to be killed by one of the most ruthless villians ok Quake and May - they part of an ensemble,Coulson is the lead Nick Fury - Hes a minor character only pops up when the going gets tough Rhodey - Sidekick Falcon - sidekick unless he becomes cap Misty - supporting character Claire - All she does is patch up the Defenders Elektra - Shes a supporting Player,will likely just be used in the Netflix shows likely won't get her show,pretty much just a crazy love intrest in season 2 who likes to kill. Heimdall - Minor character Coleen - had potential,but shes tainted due to going the cliche route by making her a love intrest. Malcolm - Jessica Jones neighbor? Homecoming was not diverse either A Asian Principle with nonwhite teachers A Black Generic Henchmen A loner girl thats black descent nonwhite acedemic team members A love interest of black descent who minor compared to the last two loce intrests A latino academic douche A Latino villian who may or may not been used in the future MCU needs to do better with Diversity. The controversy regarding The Mandarin's portrayal in IM3 was, based on my recollection, less to do with his race but moreso on the twist that it wasn't really The Mandarin but a fake-out created by AIM to play war games. AHTK's job was to ensure that there really is a Mandarin in the MCU and is the founder and active leader of The Ten Rings from prior Iron Man installments, so they can bring him in if and when they see fit to do so. Never once have I argued that they couldn't have cast Asian actors for those roles, I've just said that the characters as depicted in prior media, particularly in the comics, represented extremely dated stereotypes of Asian culture that would not fly at all in today's media. This is not the opinion of Marvel Studios, but of Marvel in general, again throughout the years The Mandarin has been repackaged left and right to try to make him more presentable for contemporary readers, not because of narrative reasons but because the character did not age well but they have enough history in the Marvel universe they shouldn't necessarily toss them out entirely. Changes had to be made for the feature film presentation, and whether or not you agree with the creative decisions they had made the movies were financial and critical hits and the general public reacted to them well so the studio succeeded in their goals in the end. As said before, most people associate Spider-Man with Peter Parker and are generally interested in him in the mantle. It's simple business, if we saw Miles in Civil War instead of Peter non-comic readers would've been seriously confused "Where is Peter Parker?" "What happened to Peter" and "Who is this guy?" would've been pretty common to hear in most Cineplex's. Miles can only be done justice if you've had an established Spider-Man before him and that's Peter Parker, if you just skip to Miles it only opens up a can of worms for the audience, like why hasn't Peter been seen or talked about in prior MCU media? Why didn't he join The Avengers? Where was he during The Incident? Things like that... The listed characters are far more important in the narratives to their respective films and shows than you make them out to be, and given how you've just summarized their roles and chalked them up as "nothing special" it definitely gives off the impression that because they are not the leads of their respective productions they are in your mind meaningless. Also, just wanted to point out that Agents of SHIELD is an ensemble series, Coulson maybe the face of it and that's largely because he's the connective tissue between the series and the movies but he is not the central protagonist for every story, Quake is arguably more important to the show as a whole than Coulson is as the series continues to progress so you are way off.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 8, 2017 17:31:12 GMT
Neither of these characters are superheroes. Deadshot is a bad guy. ^^^the art of conveniently shifting goalposts until the facts suit one's argument. Whatever.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 8, 2017 19:08:58 GMT
^^^the art of conveniently shifting goalposts until the facts suit one's argument. Whatever. that's exactly the attitude for shifting those damn goalposts. You're a pro, Joe.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 8, 2017 19:14:36 GMT
I'd say the MCU has become a bit too politically correct if you ask me.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 8, 2017 19:26:52 GMT
that's exactly the attitude for shifting those damn goalposts. You're a pro, Joe. Hey don't let me stop you from your "party" In your apartment complex, just don't wake the neighbors...
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 8, 2017 19:48:38 GMT
that's exactly the attitude for shifting those damn goalposts. You're a pro, Joe. Hey don't let me stop you from your "party" In your apartment complex, just don't wake the neighbors... aww, mean my 57th annual Justice League party, Joe? Yeah we kinda invited you too, mate ...kinda... but the email must have got lost, somehow. Whatever! You can still party with us, if you say the secret password...
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 8, 2017 20:16:06 GMT
Well I'm not one of those people I'm stating truths - The Mandarin in Iron Man 3 was NOT the real Mandarin, he was a fake created by AIM to manipulate mass media who was influenced by the mythical true founder of The Ten Rings. All Hail The King clarifies that the actual Mandarin is still out there and The Ten Rings is still active, hiding in the shadows. If keeping The Ancient One the same as they were in the original books was easy to do and wouldn't have sparked any sort of controversy why was it such a problem figuring out how to depict them on screen? The character as generally depicted in the books of yesteryear is a very dated stereotype, why bother the risk? Most people associate Spider-Man with Peter Parker, its the same as how most people associate Batman with Bruce Wayne - Using Miles would not had been a wise business decision to make as the only way to do the character right on screen would've been to have Peter Parker be active as Spidey for years, that has definitely not happened yet and the seeds for Miles were already planted in Homecoming with the introduction of his uncle. You cannot steal from somebody if you are the creators, Marvel has the right to blend and swap different elements from various stories and mold them into a new narrative with newer versions of existing characters.   All Hail the King was a way for Marvel to cover their asses,an Asian actor was screwed out of a role same thing with Anicent one. Thats Dishonest to use Miles Pal and Uncle and not him. Marvel ate their words when they said they were going to be about Diversity but all the nonwhite actors are pretty much extras like in the last two series and there is littke nods to Miles,but hes not there thats just. sad How is it dishonest? Where is it written that marvel had to use miles?
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