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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 7, 2017 22:51:48 GMT
Avengers was an event movie. That was must see. It was a landmark film. It ( The Avengers (2012)) was also literally the first film to ever do what it did with superheroes by bringing multiple characters from different film franchises together in its shared universe for a team-up. Now we've had four major blockbusters that've done that ( Avengers, Age of Ultron, Batman v Superman, and Civil War). The luster and newness of it has long worn off. No matter how you slice it, Justice League has an uphill battle. Luster and newness are irrelevant. The Fate of the Furious is the 8th movie in a franchise about the adventures of a street racing crew but it still grossed $1.2 billion. That's because luster and newness are irrelevant to box office. What's relevant to box office is who will be the audience that watches the movie. And Justice League will have an audience that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put Justice League over the top past The Avengers.
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Post by King Conan on Aug 7, 2017 22:55:08 GMT
I hope the movie bombs.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 7, 2017 22:56:29 GMT
That's typical of MCU fans. MCU fans want Justice League to bomb because they're afraid that the DCEU will dominate the CBM genre for the next decade.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 7, 2017 22:57:49 GMT
Justice League will easily pass The Avengers at the box office. Like I said above, Justice League has something that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put it over The Avengers. And what is it that they have that no superhero film has? The same thing that made Wonder Woman exceed all expectations and become the #1 movie of the summer and #2 movie of the year so far (behind only Beauty and the Beast).
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Post by King Conan on Aug 7, 2017 23:00:53 GMT
That's typical of MCU fans. MCU fans want Justice League to bomb because they're afraid that the DCEU will dominate the CBM genre for the next decade. Who said that im an MCU Fan?
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Aug 8, 2017 0:13:28 GMT
And what is it that they have that no superhero film has? The same thing that made Wonder Woman exceed all expectations and become the #1 movie of the summer and #2 movie of the year so far (behind only Beauty and the Beast). Pretty sure the audience for Wonder Woman is no different than the audience for Infinity War. Justice League is already on trailer number 3 with three months till its release and from what we've seen so far still looks pretty shoddy (the CGI). Yeah the hype is still there because we haven't see a Justice League film, but the MCU has been patient with introducing Thanos and it has all built up for Infinity War, bringing two groups together in one big film which we've never seen before and by far has probably a bigger fan base behind it than the Justice League film right now. I have no doubt it'll definitely make money and can probably even break the billion mark, but a huge part of that will probably be because of Wonder Woman. But I don't really measure the success of a film by its money. I'm more concerned about the reviews because word of mouth could hurt Justice League's chances of breaking a billion like it did with Batman v Superman.
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Post by scabab on Aug 8, 2017 0:17:25 GMT
Something like Avengers had never been done before, not on that scale.
Naturally it was a huge movie because it brought the four characters together for the first time.
Justice League has no such advantage going for it. The big three have already been in a movie together and it didn't do so great. So what this is doing isn't particularly new and exciting.
This movie "doesn't" have Superman in it. Nobody have ever really given a shit about Cyborg or Aquaman. Of course there's no movie for them prior to this either.
It won't pull an Avengers. It's probably more comparable to Civil War really where most of the main characters were together (again) with a few new additions except that had Spider-man who is far more popular.
A domestic gross at best probably comparable to Civil War with a worldwide gross that will definitely be less is probably the most likely to happen.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Aug 8, 2017 1:05:48 GMT
Depends on how much Joss Whedon can save it from Zack Snyder. BvS should have made a billion, but didn't because it sucked. Wonder Woman showed that audiences are willing to forgive this franchise based on positive word of mouth. Fast Five made about $300 million more than Fast and Furious 4 (which had already reunited the leads minus Tyrese, who's about as iconic as Cyborg), so there's precedent.
That said, if Whedon couldn't save Avengers 2, I doubt he could save anything from Snyder.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 8, 2017 1:27:23 GMT
The same thing that made Wonder Woman exceed all expectations and become the #1 movie of the summer and #2 movie of the year so far (behind only Beauty and the Beast). Pretty sure the audience for Wonder Woman is no different than the audience for Infinity War. Justice League is already on trailer number 3 with three months till its release and from what we've seen so far still looks pretty shoddy (the CGI). Yeah the hype is still there because we haven't see a Justice League film, but the MCU has been patient with introducing Thanos and it has all built up for Infinity War, bringing two groups together in one big film which we've never seen before and by far has probably a bigger fan base behind it than the Justice League film right now. I have no doubt it'll definitely make money and can probably even break the billion mark, but a huge part of that will probably be because of Wonder Woman. But I don't really measure the success of a film by its money. I'm more concerned about the reviews because word of mouth could hurt Justice League's chances of breaking a billion like it did with Batman v Superman. Nope, the audience for WW is much different than every other superhero movie. It's like when a candidate runs for POTUS, he/she can't win the general election only by getting his/her own party's base voters. He/she needs his/her own party's base voters in addition to getting another group of voters. In Reagan's case, it was "Reagan Democrats". In Obama's case, it was newly-registered college students who had never voted in a Presidential election before. MoS grossed $668 million, BvS grossed $873 million, and SS grossed $745 million. Most of it was due to the DCEU's regular fanbase. If JL just got the DCEU's regular fanbase, that wouldn't be enough to get over $1 billion. Like a candidate for POTUS, JL would need to get more than the DCEU's regular fanbase to get over $1 billion. So where would JL find the additional audience? From the WW audience, which is different from every other CBM ever made. Most of the audience for MoS, SS, and BvS came from the regular DCEU fanbase. That's why BvS and SS had such high grosses despite such low RT scores. And that's why the experts didn't expect WW to be so successful. Because they didn't think that WW could do better than MoS, SS, and BvS with the regular DCEU fanbase. But the majority of WW's audience didn't come from the DCEU's regular fanbase. The audience for superhero movies (minus WW) is normally about 60% males to 40% females. WW is the 1st superhero movie to have an audience with more females than males (WW had about 52% females to 48% males). WW was able to draw in large numbers 2 groups of audiences - female viewers and older viewers. And no, that audience won't be the same for Infinity War. Those 2 groups that helped WW exceed expectations and become the most successful movie of the summer - female viewers and older viewers - normally don't watch superhero movies and had never seen MoS, SS, or BvS and won't see Infinity War either, but probably will see JL because of WW. So adding those 2 new groups (people who normally don't watch superhero movies and never saw MoS, SS or BvS, but saw WW and will see JL because of WW) to the DCEU's regular fanbase (people who did see MoS, BvS, and SS) will put JL over the top past The Avengers.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 8, 2017 1:32:37 GMT
Something like Avengers had never been done before, not on that scale. Naturally it was a huge movie because it brought the four characters together for the first time. Justice League has no such advantage going for it. The big three have already been in a movie together and it didn't do so great. So what this is doing isn't particularly new and exciting. This movie "doesn't" have Superman in it. Nobody have ever really given a shit about Cyborg or Aquaman. Of course there's no movie for them prior to this either. It won't pull an Avengers. It's probably more comparable to Civil War really where most of the main characters were together (again) with a few new additions except that had Spider-man who is far more popular. A domestic gross at best probably comparable to Civil War with a worldwide gross that will definitely be less is probably the most likely to happen. Like I said in a previous post, whether it's the 1st time or not (i.e. luster and newness) are irrelevant. The Fate of the Furious is the 8th movie in a franchise about the adventures of a street racing crew but it still grossed $1.2 billion. That's because luster and newness are irrelevant to box office. What's relevant to box office is who will be the audience that watches the movie. And Justice League will have an audience that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put Justice League over the top past The Avengers.
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Post by scabab on Aug 8, 2017 1:56:27 GMT
Something like Avengers had never been done before, not on that scale. Naturally it was a huge movie because it brought the four characters together for the first time. Justice League has no such advantage going for it. The big three have already been in a movie together and it didn't do so great. So what this is doing isn't particularly new and exciting. This movie "doesn't" have Superman in it. Nobody have ever really given a shit about Cyborg or Aquaman. Of course there's no movie for them prior to this either. It won't pull an Avengers. It's probably more comparable to Civil War really where most of the main characters were together (again) with a few new additions except that had Spider-man who is far more popular. A domestic gross at best probably comparable to Civil War with a worldwide gross that will definitely be less is probably the most likely to happen. Like I said in a previous post, whether it's the 1st time or not (i.e. luster and newness) are irrelevant. The Fate of the Furious is the 8th movie in a franchise about the adventures of a street racing crew but it still grossed $1.2 billion. That's because luster and newness are irrelevant to box office. What's relevant to box office is who will be the audience that watches the movie. And Justice League will have an audience that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put Justice League over the top past The Avengers. Fast and the Furious was a straight sequel. The Avengers made big money because it took the main characters from four individual movies and put them together, that hadn't been done like that before. Batman vs Superman got as much hype as it did and still made a significant amount of money because it was the first time Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman had been in a movie together, that was a big deal. Justice League does not have these things going for it. Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman have already been in a movie together. Of the new additions, none of them have had a movie, people don't particularly care about Aquaman's or Cyborg. So it does not compare to what Avengers did in that regard. It'll make money but unlike Avengers it will not blow it's previous Marvel movies away because Batman vs Superman was already a minor Justice League movie.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Aug 8, 2017 2:01:19 GMT
Pretty sure the audience for Wonder Woman is no different than the audience for Infinity War. Justice League is already on trailer number 3 with three months till its release and from what we've seen so far still looks pretty shoddy (the CGI). Yeah the hype is still there because we haven't see a Justice League film, but the MCU has been patient with introducing Thanos and it has all built up for Infinity War, bringing two groups together in one big film which we've never seen before and by far has probably a bigger fan base behind it than the Justice League film right now. I have no doubt it'll definitely make money and can probably even break the billion mark, but a huge part of that will probably be because of Wonder Woman. But I don't really measure the success of a film by its money. I'm more concerned about the reviews because word of mouth could hurt Justice League's chances of breaking a billion like it did with Batman v Superman. Nope, the audience for WW is much different than every other superhero movie. It's like when a candidate runs for POTUS, he/she can't win the general election only by getting his/her own party's base voters. He/she needs his/her own party's base voters in addition to getting another group of voters. In Reagan's case, it was "Reagan Democrats". In Obama's case, it was newly-registered college students who had never voted in a Presidential election before. MoS grossed $668 million, BvS grossed $873 million, and SS grossed $745 million. Most of it was due to the DCEU's regular fanbase. If JL just got the DCEU's regular fanbase, that wouldn't be enough to get over $1 billion. Like a candidate for POTUS, JL would need to get more than the DCEU's regular fanbase to get over $1 billion. So where would JL find the additional audience? From the WW audience, which is different from every other CBM ever made. Most of the audience for MoS, SS, and BvS came from the regular DCEU fanbase. That's why BvS and SS had such high grosses despite such low RT scores. And that's why the experts didn't expect WW to be so successful. Because they didn't think that WW could do better than MoS, SS, and BvS with the regular DCEU fanbase. But the majority of WW's audience didn't come from the DCEU's regular fanbase. The audience for superhero movies (minus WW) is normally about 60% males to 40% females. WW is the 1st superhero movie to have an audience with more females than males (WW had about 52% females to 48% males). WW was able to draw in large numbers 2 groups of audiences - female viewers and older viewers. And no, that audience won't be the same for Infinity War. Those 2 groups that helped WW exceed expectations and become the most successful movie of the summer - female viewers and older viewers - normally don't watch superhero movies and had never seen MoS, SS, or BvS and won't see Infinity War either, but probably will see JL because of WW. So adding those 2 new groups (people who normally don't watch superhero movies and never saw MoS, SS or BvS, but saw WW and will see JL because of WW) to the DCEU's regular fanbase (people who did see MoS, BvS, and SS) will put JL over the top past The Avengers. Maybe if you read my post again you'll see that I said Justice League will most likely break a billion because of Wonder Woman's success. But even then, she can't just carry the film, and if the film is terrible and gets bad reviews, word of mouth will probably hurts it's box office like it did for BvS.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 8, 2017 3:09:16 GMT
Like I said in a previous post, whether it's the 1st time or not (i.e. luster and newness) are irrelevant. The Fate of the Furious is the 8th movie in a franchise about the adventures of a street racing crew but it still grossed $1.2 billion. That's because luster and newness are irrelevant to box office. What's relevant to box office is who will be the audience that watches the movie. And Justice League will have an audience that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put Justice League over the top past The Avengers. Fast and the Furious was a straight sequel. Exactly. You've just confirmed my point. The Fate of the Furious is a sequel and isn't anything that hasn't been seen before. It's the 8th movie in a franchise about the adventures of a street racing crew but it still grossed $1.2 billion. So claim that Justice League won't make over $1 billion because it isn't anything that hasn't been seen before has been proven false. Like I said, whether it's been seen before or not is irrelevant to box office. What's relevant to box office is who will be the audience that watches the movie. And Justice League will have an audience that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put Justice League over the top past The Avengers.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 8, 2017 3:14:45 GMT
Nope, the audience for WW is much different than every other superhero movie. It's like when a candidate runs for POTUS, he/she can't win the general election only by getting his/her own party's base voters. He/she needs his/her own party's base voters in addition to getting another group of voters. In Reagan's case, it was "Reagan Democrats". In Obama's case, it was newly-registered college students who had never voted in a Presidential election before. MoS grossed $668 million, BvS grossed $873 million, and SS grossed $745 million. Most of it was due to the DCEU's regular fanbase. If JL just got the DCEU's regular fanbase, that wouldn't be enough to get over $1 billion. Like a candidate for POTUS, JL would need to get more than the DCEU's regular fanbase to get over $1 billion. So where would JL find the additional audience? From the WW audience, which is different from every other CBM ever made. Most of the audience for MoS, SS, and BvS came from the regular DCEU fanbase. That's why BvS and SS had such high grosses despite such low RT scores. And that's why the experts didn't expect WW to be so successful. Because they didn't think that WW could do better than MoS, SS, and BvS with the regular DCEU fanbase. But the majority of WW's audience didn't come from the DCEU's regular fanbase. The audience for superhero movies (minus WW) is normally about 60% males to 40% females. WW is the 1st superhero movie to have an audience with more females than males (WW had about 52% females to 48% males). WW was able to draw in large numbers 2 groups of audiences - female viewers and older viewers. And no, that audience won't be the same for Infinity War. Those 2 groups that helped WW exceed expectations and become the most successful movie of the summer - female viewers and older viewers - normally don't watch superhero movies and had never seen MoS, SS, or BvS and won't see Infinity War either, but probably will see JL because of WW. So adding those 2 new groups (people who normally don't watch superhero movies and never saw MoS, SS or BvS, but saw WW and will see JL because of WW) to the DCEU's regular fanbase (people who did see MoS, BvS, and SS) will put JL over the top past The Avengers. Maybe if you read my post again you'll see that I said Justice League will most likely break a billion because of Wonder Woman's success. But even then, she can't just carry the film, and if the film is terrible and gets bad reviews, word of mouth will probably hurts it's box office like it did for BvS. Maybe if you read my post again, you'll see that Wonder Woman doesn't have to carry Justice League. Wonder Woman adds to Justice League.
The audience for MoS, BvS, and SS was mostly the DCEU regular fanbase, which didn't include the large numbers of female viewers and older viewers who saw WW. So we can assume that same DCEU regular fanbase will turn out for JL. Now add in the large numbers of female viewers and older viewers who normally don't watch superhero movies and never saw MoS, BvS, or SS, but saw WW but will go see JL because of Wonder Woman and that's going to put JL over the top past The Avengers.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Aug 8, 2017 4:28:32 GMT
Maybe if you read my post again you'll see that I said Justice League will most likely break a billion because of Wonder Woman's success. But even then, she can't just carry the film, and if the film is terrible and gets bad reviews, word of mouth will probably hurts it's box office like it did for BvS. Maybe if you read my post again, you'll see that Wonder Woman doesn't have to carry Justice League. Wonder Woman adds to Justice League.
The audience for MoS, BvS, and SS was mostly the DCEU regular fanbase, which didn't include the large numbers of female viewers and older viewers who saw WW. So we can assume that same DCEU regular fanbase will turn out for JL. Now add in the large numbers of female viewers and older viewers who normally don't watch superhero movies and never saw MoS, BvS, or SS, but saw WW but will go see JL because of Wonder Woman and that's going to put JL over the top past The Avengers. That doesn't particularly help if the regular DC fanbase has wised up to Snyder and the fact he just can't deliver a good movie anymore. Again, we're on like trailer 4 with three months to go and it still looks unfinished or just really poor CGI. So yeah, technically you're counting on the Wonder Woman audience to carry the film and give it good reviews.
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Post by scabab on Aug 8, 2017 5:24:23 GMT
Fast and the Furious was a straight sequel. Exactly. You've just confirmed my point. The Fate of the Furious is a sequel and isn't anything that hasn't been seen before. It's the 8th movie in a franchise about the adventures of a street racing crew but it still grossed $1.2 billion. So claim that Justice League won't make over $1 billion because it isn't anything that hasn't been seen before has been proven false. Like I said, whether it's been seen before or not is irrelevant to box office. What's relevant to box office is who will be the audience that watches the movie. And Justice League will have an audience that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put Justice League over the top past The Avengers. Justice League isn't a sequel, it's a franchise movie combining previous characters. For all the money Fast 8 made it did about $300 million less than Fast 7. Also Fast 7 was a well liked movie and people will usually be interested in more of a good thing. With Batman vs Superman being widely disliked it needs to offer something to get people to come back to see Justice League and then more for it to make the $1 billion. Avengers Infinity War has that because it's also bringing in Guardians of the Galaxy, Spider-man, Doctor Strange, Ant-man and Black Panther all into the mix with a villain hyped up early on. Justice League has nothing like that. It's Batman vs Superman except this time Aquaman, Cyborg and Flash have an increased role and Superman a reduced role.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 12, 2017 15:54:27 GMT
Something like Avengers had never been done before, not on that scale. Naturally it was a huge movie because it brought the four characters together for the first time. Justice League has no such advantage going for it. Justice League will gross more than The Avengers because Justice League has a huge advantage over The Avengers - the Justice League are the "A" team. In 1995, Phoenix had a minor-league baseball team but no Major League Baseball team. Do you think the MLB owners said "Well, we shouldn't add a new team in Phoenix because they already have a professional baseball team so this wouldn't be anything new or special and nobody would want to go see the games."? LOL!!! Phoenix had a minor-league baseball team but no Major League Baseball team. When MLB put a team in Phoenix, no one would care about the minor league team anymore because they would rather watch the MLB team. In fact, after the Arizona Diamondbacks starting playing in Phoenix, the minor-league team moved out of Phoenix to Tucson because they knew they couldn't compete with an MLB team. It's the same with the Avengers and the Justice League. The Avengers are a minor-league team and the Justice League is a major-league team. No one has ever seen the Justice League (a major-league team) on the big screen before so it will be new and special to see. And that's a huge advantage the Justice League has over a minor-league team like the Avengers. So Justice League will easily surpass The Avengers at the box office.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 12, 2017 16:20:35 GMT
The same thing that made Wonder Woman exceed all expectations and become the #1 movie of the summer and #2 movie of the year so far (behind only Beauty and the Beast). Pretty sure the audience for Wonder Woman is no different than the audience for Infinity War. Justice League is already on trailer number 3 with three months till its release and from what we've seen so far still looks pretty shoddy (the CGI). Yeah the hype is still there because we haven't see a Justice League film, but the MCU has been patient with introducing Thanos and it has all built up for Infinity War, bringing two groups together in one big film which we've never seen before and by far has probably a bigger fan base behind it than the Justice League film right now. I have no doubt it'll definitely make money and can probably even break the billion mark, but a huge part of that will probably be because of Wonder Woman. But I don't really measure the success of a film by its money. I'm more concerned about the reviews because word of mouth could hurt Justice League's chances of breaking a billion like it did with Batman v Superman. The audience between WW and IW is significantly different. A large number of women and young girls went to WW who have no plans to see IW, and there are plenty of casual and dedicated Marvel fans who aren't invested in anything DC. Obviously there is a ton of crossover as well, but there are significantly different audiences.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Aug 12, 2017 16:30:07 GMT
Exactly. You've just confirmed my point. The Fate of the Furious is a sequel and isn't anything that hasn't been seen before. It's the 8th movie in a franchise about the adventures of a street racing crew but it still grossed $1.2 billion. So claim that Justice League won't make over $1 billion because it isn't anything that hasn't been seen before has been proven false. Like I said, whether it's been seen before or not is irrelevant to box office. What's relevant to box office is who will be the audience that watches the movie. And Justice League will have an audience that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put Justice League over the top past The Avengers. Justice League isn't a sequel, it's a franchise movie combining previous characters. For all the money Fast 8 made it did about $300 million less than Fast 7. Also Fast 7 was a well liked movie and people will usually be interested in more of a good thing. With Batman vs Superman being widely disliked it needs to offer something to get people to come back to see Justice League and then more for it to make the $1 billion. Avengers Infinity War has that because it's also bringing in Guardians of the Galaxy, Spider-man, Doctor Strange, Ant-man and Black Panther all into the mix with a villain hyped up early on. Justice League has nothing like that. It's Batman vs Superman except this time Aquaman, Cyborg and Flash have an increased role and Superman a reduced role. It's a sequel. I don't know how you define it as anything else. There is one through line of movies. The only possible exception is WW but that was just a flashback film. It's a sequel by any definition.
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Post by scabab on Aug 12, 2017 17:01:22 GMT
It ( The Avengers (2012)) was also literally the first film to ever do what it did with superheroes by bringing multiple characters from different film franchises together in its shared universe for a team-up. Now we've had four major blockbusters that've done that ( Avengers, Age of Ultron, Batman v Superman, and Civil War). The luster and newness of it has long worn off. No matter how you slice it, Justice League has an uphill battle. Luster and newness are irrelevant. The Fate of the Furious is the 8th movie in a franchise about the adventures of a street racing crew but it still grossed $1.2 billion. That's because luster and newness are irrelevant to box office. What's relevant to box office is who will be the audience that watches the movie. And Justice League will have an audience that no other CBM except Wonder Woman had. And that's what's going to put Justice League over the top past The Avengers. The luster and newness caused it drop $300 million at the box office. Obviously it's relevant. That Justice League lacks any new worthwhile and will likely be a poor movie will stop it from making $1 billion.
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