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Post by marshamae on Aug 17, 2017 14:39:29 GMT
I'm watching The Women on TCM. And I don't think I've ever really appreciated how great Crawford was in this film. It's Rosalind Russell's breakout as a fast talking comic actress, and I've always loved the beautiful if slightly mannered performances of Lucille Watson and Norma Shearer. Little Virginia Weidler is smashing in her dramatic scenes too. Then the showy second parts of Paulette Goddard, Mary Boland and Marjorie Main each have great scenes .
But somehow I've missed how good Crawford was. Her scene with Norma Shearer in the fitting room must have been both challenging and exciting for her. She deeply resented Norma Shearer, feeling that she got first crack at all scripts that Kos to her producer husband. It was a big risk for Crawford to play The scene in a natural manner. It must have been tempting to try to out do Shearer in ladylike hauteur, but it would have been terrible . But to be forced to be vulgar and rough edged and cede The high ground to Shearer, still managing to overpower her and drive her from the room, meant laying bare all TGE things Joan Crawford was trying not to be. It meant showing her cagy, streetwise , tough manner, her naked ambition, her manipulative style and her basic contempt for love. And she had to throw all these qualities at the feet of THE queen of MGM. ITs a very powerful scene with both actresses going full tilt, but Crawford's loose, natural manner, and her ease just make it perfect.
Im not a fan of Crawford later work , her imperious phase. I've always preferred her early work , especially Grand Hotel.
Anyone one else ever feel they were suddenly discovering a performance by a familiar performer, suddenly recognizing undiscovered brilliance in a film or actor you have seen before?
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Post by teleadm on Aug 18, 2017 16:05:56 GMT
Anyone one else ever feel they were suddenly discovering a performance by a familiar performer, suddenly recognizing undiscovered brilliance in a film or actor you have seen before? Reading your last bit in the post, and thinking a bit about it, and suddenly I came to think of an actor named Gilbert Roland, in a short space of time I watched him in both The Furies 1950 and the even lesser known Bandido 1956, where he talks with passion whithout overplaying about the lives, troubles and tribulations of poor Mexicans, sadly he was usually relegated to just play mexican stereotypes most of his life. By the way a pic of Joan: on Route 66 TV series
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Post by snsurone on Aug 18, 2017 17:56:48 GMT
IMHO, Joan Crawford's best performance was in GRAND HOTEL, and she should have won the Oscar for that. I remember reading that Garbo told her how she (Garbo) regretted that the two women had no scenes together in this movie. Of course, the bi-sexual Garbo was actually hitting on Crawford, who felt sexual stirrings. Just imagine if Garbo and Crawford actually had a lesbian love affair! Of course, if it ever became public in those days, it would have been the end of both their careers. Maybe that's the reason why they had no scenes together.
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Aug 18, 2017 18:28:55 GMT
I just watched 'Dead End' for what was at least the 25th time, and I noticed what a great performance Allen Jenkins puts in as Bogey's sidekick.
Dead End and Petrified Forest are my two favorite Bogey movies.
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Post by marshamae on Aug 19, 2017 1:59:04 GMT
Great examples all. I must have watched Dead End 30 times and I always passed over Jenkins, because the kids, Sylvia Sidney Bogart and Trevor are so extraordinary. Two other bits in that film wow me. One is Esther Dale , everyone's cook ,maid or mother in law. In this one she stumbles out of her one room apartment into the street, sees a toddler with a teething biscuit, and by means of The strangest baby talk ever( Inka - tinka tinka) manages to inveigle the cookie away from The baby and stumbles off nibbling it, deaf to his wails. It's a tiny portrait of the grubby covetousness of poverty row where even a baby's cookie is worth stealing.
The other is the astonishing performance of Marjorie Main as Bogart's ma. After only knowing her full voiced and roaring in comedy , her thin wailing voice, " why didn't ya die? " is completely unexpected. Nothing could convey more clearly the emotional and moral dead end in which Bogart finds himself
Télé - love Gilbert Roland. Wish he had had better parts. Ever see beneath the 12 mile reef? And of course, TGE Bad and TGE Beautiful.
Snsurone, loved Grand Hotel.
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Post by wmcclain on Aug 19, 2017 2:09:40 GMT
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 19, 2017 2:46:00 GMT
Anyone one else ever feel they were suddenly discovering a performance by a familiar performer, suddenly recognizing undiscovered brilliance in a film or actor you have seen before?
I have grown up watching John Wayne films and just enjoy them because I like him. In general, I don't do the "why analysis" of films and actors.
I have noticed a lot of online bashing of Wayne for his "wooden" acting.
One day a phone call came while "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" was on the TV and the sound had to be turned off. As I continued to watch the film with no sound and just watched Wayne reacting to what Jimmy Stewart was doing and saying, I saw an aspect of Wayne's acting I had never really noticed. The man listens to what is going on around him and is NOT wooden while he is doing it! IMO anyway !
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Post by petrolino on Aug 19, 2017 2:53:26 GMT
Anyone one else ever feel they were suddenly discovering a performance by a familiar performer, suddenly recognizing undiscovered brilliance in a film or actor you have seen before?
I have grown up watching John Wayne films and just enjoy them because I like him. In general, I don't do the "why analysis" of films and actors. I have noticed a lot of online bashing of Wayne for his "wooden" acting. One day a phone call came while "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" was on the TV and the sound had to be turned off. As I continued to watch the film with no sound and just watched Wayne reacting to what Jimmy Stewart was doing and saying, I saw an aspect of Wayne's acting I had never really noticed. The man listens to what is going on around him and is NOT wooden while he is doing it! IMO anyway ! I grew up watching Alan Ladd movies with my mother, thought they were great, he was great. Then later when I started collecting film magazines I realised there was all these critics saying he wasn't much of an actor. To which I thought, well, I beg to differ. He knew how to deliver.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 19, 2017 3:03:51 GMT
petrolinoMy mom was a Fanatic about Ladd too ! I always liked his quietness. SHANE the most of all. RE: critics of various kinds : One of the things I would have learned if I listened to some of the "experts" is that I have totally wasted my time watching black and white movies, silent films, films made by Americans and films made in the 20th century. But then, whudda they know anyhoo !
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Post by petrolino on Aug 19, 2017 3:09:49 GMT
Anyone one else ever feel they were suddenly discovering a performance by a familiar performer, suddenly recognizing undiscovered brilliance in a film or actor you have seen before? The actor who comes immediately to mind is Richard Gere; sorry, a bite more modern, but may I explain. The two biggest sleazeballs when I was a kid were Gere and Michael Douglas. Now, I always loved Douglas, he has that roguish charm. But Gere drove me up the wall, couldn't understand how anybody could like him. My favourite horror actress Linnea Quigley worked with him on 'American Gigolo' and said he was cool, top directors like Martin Scorsese and Robert Altman were professed fans, and this dude was loved by women almost as much as the legend Warren Beatty. So one day I watch him in 'Internal Affairs', I'm like, woah. Anyway, later in life, having developed incredible respect for the man because he was willing to make leading roles so unpleasant, I saw him in a new film and an old film that really chimed : 'An Officer And A Gentleman' is actually a great movie, very moving, with the wonderful Debra Winger / and 'The Mothman Prophecies', oh yeh, great tale of local legends and the supernatural. Now I think, how the hell has Richard Gere never once been nominated for an Oscar ... perhaps, because he has no qualms with not being liked. Richard Gere looking like a young Bruce Springsteen :
Joan Crawford rehearses for 'Rose Marie' (1928) :
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Post by petrolino on Aug 19, 2017 3:17:28 GMT
petrolino My mom was a Fanatic about Ladd too ! I always liked his quietness. SHANE the most of all. RE: critics of various kinds : One of the things I would have learned if I listened to some of the "experts" is that I have totally wasted my time watching black and white movies, silent films, films made by Americans and films made in the 20th century. But then, whudda they know anyhoo ! Some renowned film critics became fixated upon Ladd's height in reviews which began to annoy me. So Jimmy Cagney wasn't tough because he was short? How about Audie Murphy? Fact is, Ladd was a tough dude who lived a harrowing life, yet still maintained a wink and a smile before the camera. Maximum respect for this dude. I like 'Shane' too, a masterpiece. Top 10 western for me, one of two I'd select with the great Van Heflin (the other is Delmer Daves' cagey psychological showdown '3:10 To Yuma').
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Post by greatstreetwarrior on Aug 19, 2017 11:24:50 GMT
Anyone one else ever feel they were suddenly discovering a performance by a familiar performer, suddenly recognizing undiscovered brilliance in a film or actor you have seen before? Reading your last bit in the post, and thinking a bit about it, and suddenly I came to think of an actor named Gilbert Roland, in a short space of time I watched him in both The Furies 1950 and the even lesser known Bandido 1956, where he talks with passion whithout overplaying about the lives, troubles and tribulations of poor Mexicans, sadly he was usually relegated to just play mexican stereotypes most of his life. By the way a pic of Joan: on Route 66 TV series Wow Crawford with two other hot looking dudes. Crawford in the latter part of her career looked really ugly but somehow she used to keep doing these movies with guys 20 yrs her junior. Heard from a classic film buff that she used to recommend young guys she had the hots for and was sleeping with to be cast into those roles so she could spend time with them. She she certainly managed to get guys half her age till very late in her life. I really find this the most fascinating aspect of her offscreen personna.
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Post by teleadm on Aug 19, 2017 17:02:39 GMT
petrolino and BATouttaheck and everyone else offcourse... It's so easy (and maybe snobbish) to just wave away the acting styles of John Wayne and Alan Ladd, there are others too, like Cary Grant, that they played the same role over and over, but what is usually forgotten is that it's the paying audiences that made them stars, and audiences went to see their favorite actors do their stuff. John Wayne plays John Wayne, Alan Ladd plays Alan Ladd, Cary Grant plays Cary Grant, and why shouldn't they, it's what the ticket buyers came to see. The magnificent Shane 1953, Paramount was so unshure about the movies ambitions they tried to sell it of to Howard Hughes who thankfully said NO. When seeing an early draft version of the movie Mr Hughes changed his mind, but then it was Paramount who said NO. They understood that they had something special, even holding it back so it wouldn't compete with other Ladd movies from Paramount, and understanding that they could sell it both as Ladd Western action movie, and as a grand scale epic. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance 1962, panned by critics at the time, and not the econmical flop that it was rumoured to be. It is the last great movie from John Ford. I can't agree more, but this is John Wayne's best acting role ever, beginning lighthearted and humorous, but develops darker and darker, until he himself understands that he is a relic of the past. The movie also asks an important question, Shall we print the legend or shall we print the truth. Something very valid still today. I might have got this story wrong: A reporter asked Spencer Tracy why he always plays the same role, and Tracy replied ""Who should I play, Humphrey Bogart?"
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 19, 2017 17:11:20 GMT
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 20, 2017 5:20:47 GMT
Maybe that's the reason why they had no scenes together. OR It might have been because the characters in the film never had any reason to interact with each other.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 8:47:50 GMT
Your post made me think of Marilyn Monroe. Misled by this very famous photo of "The Seven Year Itch", I used to dismiss her as an actress who was just able to show her beautiful face and perfect body to the camera and whose films were not worth watching. When I accidentally saw her on TV in "How to Marry a Millionaire" I was pleasantly surprised by her comedic talents and have started watching many of her films.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 20, 2017 15:10:48 GMT
have started watching many of her films.
You are in for a real treat ! @juliekohler
Recommend : Some Like it Hot , Niagara, The Misfits, Bend of the River, Bus Stop for a variety of Marilyns
EDIT : Bend of the River = out River of No Return = in
oops !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 17:28:03 GMT
Thanks for your recommendations, BATouttaheckI've meanwhile watched Some Like It Hot and The Seven Year Itch, too. Both are hilarious. As for The Misfits, I thought it was a good film and she gave a brilliant performance. I had some difficulties with it, though, because of the cruelty against the horses. I added Niagara, Bend on the River and Bus Stop to my watchlist.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Aug 20, 2017 17:35:18 GMT
@juliekohler
It's hard to go really wrong with a Marilyn movie. Even the klunkers are interesting just for the joy of watching her.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 19:41:25 GMT
I have to admit i have never been a fan of Joan Crawford.
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