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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 15:44:50 GMT
Try seriously imagining for a few moments that we were discussing reality. I told you I was actively looking for the oracle from the Matrix, because I could just feel that we were in a simulation. I'd seen too many instances of deja vu for it all to be just coincidence. I'd even tell you many stories about those instance and ask you if you seriously thought it was all coincidence, which to you would just sound confusing. Afterall how do you answer such a meaningless question? But I go on to tell you the machine listen through the phones, and that they can possess our bodies and speak through us. I once was possessed by an agent of the system and have vague memories of hopping over building chasing the saviors in black coats. But if I could only find the oracle, she could lead me to Zion. That is the place of freedom, but you have to truly believe for her to accept you. It's better to believe than to not believe just in case I'm right, I mean after all, what if you're wrong?
Really put yourself into the idea of a person telling you all that, and being serious about it. They live their lives as though that were true.
I'm not going to sugar coat it. Your religion sounds that insane to anybody standing outside of your bubble. Please step outside your bubble. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 28, 2017 15:51:40 GMT
It doesn't matter what it looks like to others.
After all, maybe they're idiots.
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Post by Vegas on Feb 28, 2017 15:53:44 GMT
Now..
Imagine a strawman.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 15:55:55 GMT
It doesn't matter what it looks like to others. After all, maybe they're idiots. Sure it matters what it's like to not believe you. Try seriously considering why a person wouldn't believe it.
It's called questioning yourself. It's good for you.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 15:57:24 GMT
It's not a strawman at all.
It's just seriously questioning yourself. Too many times I've seen theists afraid to do this, as though thinking that a universe could occur without a god is just unacceptable to them. It's very troubling to watch that.
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Post by Vegas on Feb 28, 2017 16:03:29 GMT
It's not a strawman at all.
It's just seriously questioning yourself. Too many times I've seen theists afraid to do this, as though thinking that a universe could occur without a god is just unacceptable to them. It's very troubling to watch that.
Now imagine a pot calling the kettle black..... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:05:37 GMT
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 16:08:11 GMT
It's not a strawman at all.
It's just seriously questioning yourself. Too many times I've seen theists afraid to do this, as though thinking that a universe could occur without a god is just unacceptable to them. It's very troubling to watch that.
Now imagine a pot calling the kettle black..... I question what I perceive to be true all the time.
For instance when I was young I used to hold the idea that space was nothingness, and after learning about it, I understand that it isn't just nothing. I used to think the universe was infinite. I used to think there was an edge to it. Etc. It's called learning. It's sort of fun to be wrong and understand that you've learned. I don't understand refusing to let go of an idea.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 28, 2017 16:08:59 GMT
It doesn't matter what it looks like to others. After all, maybe they're idiots. Sure it matters what it's like to not believe you. Try seriously considering why a person wouldn't believe it.
It's called questioning yourself. It's good for you.
Nope.
It doesn't matter one hoot.
I can question myself without any involvement from you.
After all, you aren't important in the grand scheme of things or, more importantly, my scheme of things.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 28, 2017 16:10:52 GMT
Is that bread and pickles?
Mmmmm....Could I get a brochure?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 16:14:54 GMT
Sure it matters what it's like to not believe you. Try seriously considering why a person wouldn't believe it.
It's called questioning yourself. It's good for you.
Nope.
It doesn't matter one hoot.
I can question myself without any involvement from you.
After all, you aren't important in the grand scheme of things or, more importantly, my scheme of things.
I didn't say another person's view matters, I said to question yourself, and discussing other peoples views certainly matters as it lends perspective, even if that perspective is complete nonsense.
Also, saying I'm not important in the grand scheme of things, is pretty much a troll comment. Simultaneously I want to say duh and so what, but I think I'll just let you marinate for awhile.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:15:52 GMT
Try seriously imagining for a few moments that we were discussing reality. I told you I was actively looking for the oracle from the Matrix, because I could just feel that we were in a simulation. I'd seen too many instances of deja vu for it all to be just coincidence. I'd even tell you many stories about those instance and ask you if you seriously thought it was all coincidence, which to you would just sound confusing. Afterall how do you answer such a meaningless question? But I go on to tell you the machine listen through the phones, and that they can possess our bodies and speak through us. I once was possessed by an agent of the system and have vague memories of hopping over building chasing the saviors in black coats. But if I could only find the oracle, she could lead me to Zion. That is the place of freedom, but you have to truly believe for her to accept you. It's better to believe than to not believe just in case I'm right, I mean after all, what if you're wrong? All religions and cults start with good reasoning, and sometimes mind-blowing facts. That is the way they invite you to become members of their Bullshit club, and there is some form of fees you have to pay one or another. " The Matrix centers on the concept that the known world is an illusion " |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:17:27 GMT
Try seriously imagining for a few moments that we were discussing reality. I told you I was actively looking for the oracle from the Matrix, because I could just feel that we were in a simulation. I'd seen too many instances of deja vu for it all to be just coincidence. I'd even tell you many stories about those instance and ask you if you seriously thought it was all coincidence, which to you would just sound confusing. Afterall how do you answer such a meaningless question? But I go on to tell you the machine listen through the phones, and that they can possess our bodies and speak through us. I once was possessed by an agent of the system and have vague memories of hopping over building chasing the saviors in black coats. But if I could only find the oracle, she could lead me to Zion. That is the place of freedom, but you have to truly believe for her to accept you. It's better to believe than to not believe just in case I'm right, I mean after all, what if you're wrong?
Really put yourself into the idea of a person telling you all that, and being serious about it. They live their lives as though that were true.
I'm not going to sugar coat it. Your religion sounds that insane to anybody standing outside of your bubble. Please step outside your bubble. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 16:22:09 GMT
That's just because you don't understand them. making up a spiritual dimension isn't an explanation. Instead, you should try learning. I think you would be surprised to know it does all make sense without a spiritual dimension. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 16:26:38 GMT
" The Matrix centers on the concept that the known world is an illusion " That doesn't change the point which is simply a point of view with no supporting evidence. The reason you don't accept that we are in a simulation is not really any different than why I don't accept that there is some all knowing omnipresent god.
And yet, I could make a rather compelling case that we are in a simulation. I mean there is AI, we know we make simulations, we can be pretty sure that technology will vastly improve, and there will simply be far more of them than any real world, so the odds are that we are in one of those. And yet, neither of us believes that, even though it could explain everything.
Conversely, with no more evidence, people base their lives on religion being true. It's very odd to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:33:17 GMT
That's just because you don't understand them. making up a spiritual dimension isn't an explanation. Instead, you should try learning. I think you would be surprised to know it does all make sense without a spiritual dimension.  |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 16:35:13 GMT
That's just because you don't understand them. making up a spiritual dimension isn't an explanation. Instead, you should try learning. I think you would be surprised to know it does all make sense without a spiritual dimension. Again, a spiritual dimension is not about knowledge, because there is no knowledge of one.
Meanwhile the universe can be understood to occur naturally.
Ego doesn't factor.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:35:48 GMT
That doesn't change the point which is simply a point of view with no supporting evidence. The reason you don't accept that we are in a simulation is not really any different than why I don't accept that there is some all knowing omnipresent god.
And yet, I could make a rather compelling case that we are in a simulation. I mean there is AI, we know we make simulations, we can be pretty sure that technology will vastly improve, and there will simply be far more of them than any real world, so the odds are that we are in one of those. And yet, neither of us believes that, even though it could explain everything.
Conversely, with no more evidence, people base their lives on religion being true. It's very odd to watch.
Atheism, theory of evolution, all the scientific theories (some of them get debunked and another theory takes it place) are part of the process. They are all a point of view with or without supporting evidence. The best thing to do is enjoy learning everything. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 16:39:04 GMT
Meanwhile the universe can be understood to occur naturally.
The Universe can be understood to be part of many universes too. There are many theories. String theory postulates that we are just in one of the infinite strings of universes. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Feb 28, 2017 16:43:45 GMT
Atheism, theory of evolution, all the scientific theories (some of them get debunked and another theory takes it place) are part of the process. They are all a point of view with or without supporting evidence. The best thing to do is enjoy learning everything. Well first, atheism has nothing to do with those theories. Yes, most atheists accept them but atheism isn't reliant on them in any way. It's simply not accepting a god is true. You could not accept germ theory or that the world is round and still be an atheist.
Second, evolution is a fact. The theory of evolution by natural selection is in regards to the method by which it evolves, but the fact that it does occur has been confirmed to the point that it is as secure as germ theory, relativity, and many others. It is not going to get overturned, although we undoubtedly will learn more about it.
Third, I generally agree that learning is all that matters, and if any theory gets overturned, so be it. I welcome that gladly.
Fourth, they aren't just points of view. A well founded theory with countless data point of supporting evidence, testing, predictability of results etc, is not just a point of view. And it certainly isn't in the same sense as a god might be where there are no data points, testing, or predictability of results, which is to say, no supporting evidence.
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