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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2017 13:28:45 GMT
I don't think any of these clubs want to force a player to stay until the end of his contract. I definitely know that with Leipzig, and with Liverpool it also seems to be the case that he told the club he'll stay early in the transfer window and changed his mind later - and for the club too late. Dembele knew he was going to be sold, he was simply trying to force the price down - maybe was encouraged by Barcelona, at least that's what Dortmund officials believe. Not only the player, the club has rights and justified interests, too. After the Bosman verdict it's in the interest of both sides not to let the contract run down. But that doesn't mean a player can come whenever he likes and force a move. Forsberg and Couthino signed new contracts not even half a year ago. As Midi_Chlorian Count pointed out, if they didn't plan on staying at least two or three years, they shouldn't have signed a new five year deal with no release clause. As I said, in 95 percent of the cases it's possible to find a solution that's acceptable for both parties. But it's not acceptable for the player to behave like a spoiled five year old if he doesn't immediately get what he wants. That is probably the one thing they have right in Spain, they must have a release clause in the contract. I just think, if you are a young person growing up playing football, you might not necessarily think through every possible eventuality when you sign on the dotted line, and your agent might not necessarily have your best long term interests in heart either. Or your agent might just be incompetent. When a better club comes knocking, you'd be mad not to jump at it, your club certainly aren't going to show you any loyalty when your career comes to an end, they aren't even going to show you loyalty when another club puts in an offer they want to accept (whether that club is worse or better). They will be pushing you out the door so fast your feet wont touch the ground, and they'll probably make your life hell in the reserves if you don't go. And every fan acts aggrieved when a bigger club comes knocking for one of their players, I understand that, but they are absolutely fine with it when their club is stealing players off smaller clubs.
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Post by mandragora on Aug 28, 2017 21:25:41 GMT
I don't think any of these clubs want to force a player to stay until the end of his contract. I definitely know that with Leipzig, and with Liverpool it also seems to be the case that he told the club he'll stay early in the transfer window and changed his mind later - and for the club too late. Dembele knew he was going to be sold, he was simply trying to force the price down - maybe was encouraged by Barcelona, at least that's what Dortmund officials believe. Not only the player, the club has rights and justified interests, too. After the Bosman verdict it's in the interest of both sides not to let the contract run down. But that doesn't mean a player can come whenever he likes and force a move. Forsberg and Couthino signed new contracts not even half a year ago. As Midi_Chlorian Count pointed out, if they didn't plan on staying at least two or three years, they shouldn't have signed a new five year deal with no release clause. As I said, in 95 percent of the cases it's possible to find a solution that's acceptable for both parties. But it's not acceptable for the player to behave like a spoiled five year old if he doesn't immediately get what he wants. That is probably the one thing they have right in Spain, they must have a release clause in the contract. I just think, if you are a young person growing up playing football, you might not necessarily think through every possible eventuality when you sign on the dotted line, and your agent might not necessarily have your best long term interests in heart either. Or your agent might just be incompetent. When a better club comes knocking, you'd be mad not to jump at it, your club certainly aren't going to show you any loyalty when your career comes to an end, they aren't even going to show you loyalty when another club puts in an offer they want to accept (whether that club is worse or better). They will be pushing you out the door so fast your feet wont touch the ground, and they'll probably make your life hell in the reserves if you don't go. And every fan acts aggrieved when a bigger club comes knocking for one of their players, I understand that, but they are absolutely fine with it when their club is stealing players off smaller clubs. The Keita deal struck today proves what I said earlier. In 95 percent of the cases a solution can be found that is acceptable for both the club and the player. Although in this case it required a little help from Kloppo and LFC who basically agreed to pay 15 to 25m € for literally nothing but the publicity to be able to announce the deal this summer rather than the next, and the insurance that the player will still join them should he have a change of mind in the meantime. In the best case, they've just blown said 15 to 25m out of the window, because the player would have joined them anyway. In the worst case, he'll really have that feared change of mind and they'll have paid 70m for a player who wants to be elsewhere. After half a day I still can't wrap my mind around their logic. Not that I'm complaining. 65 to 75m is better than 50 or 55m, especially with the additional bonus of having no transfer circus in winter. The most important thing is, another such situation solved without the player going on strike.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 7:24:36 GMT
That is probably the one thing they have right in Spain, they must have a release clause in the contract. I just think, if you are a young person growing up playing football, you might not necessarily think through every possible eventuality when you sign on the dotted line, and your agent might not necessarily have your best long term interests in heart either. Or your agent might just be incompetent. When a better club comes knocking, you'd be mad not to jump at it, your club certainly aren't going to show you any loyalty when your career comes to an end, they aren't even going to show you loyalty when another club puts in an offer they want to accept (whether that club is worse or better). They will be pushing you out the door so fast your feet wont touch the ground, and they'll probably make your life hell in the reserves if you don't go. And every fan acts aggrieved when a bigger club comes knocking for one of their players, I understand that, but they are absolutely fine with it when their club is stealing players off smaller clubs. The Keita deal struck today proves what I said earlier. In 95 percent of the cases a solution can be found that is acceptable for both the club and the player. Although in this case it required a little help from Kloppo and LFC who basically agreed to pay 15 to 25m € for literally nothing but the publicity to be able to announce the deal this summer rather than the next, and the insurance that the player will still join them should he have a change of mind in the meantime. In the best case, they've just blown said 15 to 25m out of the window, because the player would have joined them anyway. In the worst case, he'll really have that feared change of mind and they'll have paid 70m for a player who wants to be elsewhere. After half a day I still can't wrap my mind around their logic. Not that I'm complaining. 65 to 75m is better than 50 or 55m, especially with the additional bonus of having no transfer circus in winter. The most important thing is, another such situation solved without the player going on strike. I'm not sure what one deal proves, other than one deal was made. The thing is, football clubs and football fans have a tendency to see players as commodities. That needs to stop. They are human beings, with hopes and dreams and feelings just like the rest of us, a few of them are even capable of feeling 'love'. George Michael and Ronaldo once suggested they are slaves, I wouldn't go that far because it cheapens the word 'slavery', but it is the next worst thing, because when you coerce human beings to sign these long term contracts, knowing full well they might change their mind a year or 3 years down the line, then it becomes a morally bankrupt system when you hold a person to a decision they made years ago when they were in a completely different place. It is not okay to block a young person's dream, no matter what the law says. You need to stop dehumanising them, Mandragora, they are not property, they are human beings. Gandhi once said "Be the change that you wish to see in the world". Very wise words indeed.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Aug 29, 2017 8:14:35 GMT
The Keita deal struck today proves what I said earlier. In 95 percent of the cases a solution can be found that is acceptable for both the club and the player. Although in this case it required a little help from Kloppo and LFC who basically agreed to pay 15 to 25m € for literally nothing but the publicity to be able to announce the deal this summer rather than the next, and the insurance that the player will still join them should he have a change of mind in the meantime. In the best case, they've just blown said 15 to 25m out of the window, because the player would have joined them anyway. In the worst case, he'll really have that feared change of mind and they'll have paid 70m for a player who wants to be elsewhere. After half a day I still can't wrap my mind around their logic. Not that I'm complaining. 65 to 75m is better than 50 or 55m, especially with the additional bonus of having no transfer circus in winter. The most important thing is, another such situation solved without the player going on strike. I'm not sure what one deal proves, other than one deal was made. The thing is, football clubs and football fans have a tendency to see players as commodities. That needs to stop. They are human beings, with hopes and dreams and feelings just like the rest of us, a few of them are even capable of feeling 'love'. George Michael and Ronaldo once suggested they are slaves, I wouldn't go that far because it cheapens the word 'slavery', but it is the next worst thing, because when you coerce human beings to sign these long term contracts, knowing full well they might change their mind a year or 3 years down the line, then it becomes a morally bankrupt system when you hold a person to a decision they made years ago when they were in a completely different place. It is not okay to block a young person's dream, no matter what the law says. You need to stop dehumanising them, Mandragora, they are not property, they are human beings. Gandhi once said "Be the change that you wish to see in the world". Very wise words indeed. www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/25/philippe-coutinho-signs-new-long-term-liverpool-deal-no-buy-out-clause"We feel at home in this city, we feel a part of this city. It is a very important day for me, my wife and my daughter. I am happy and everyone is happy at home.” Coercion 😂 Look, some very valid point have been made here re young players being signed up at very young ages and locked into long term contracts - particularly the African to Europe trades - but that is quite obviously a million miles from this case. No Neymer buyout, no "unhappy" Coutinho. It's really that simple...
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Post by mandragora on Aug 29, 2017 8:24:37 GMT
The Keita deal struck today proves what I said earlier. In 95 percent of the cases a solution can be found that is acceptable for both the club and the player. Although in this case it required a little help from Kloppo and LFC who basically agreed to pay 15 to 25m € for literally nothing but the publicity to be able to announce the deal this summer rather than the next, and the insurance that the player will still join them should he have a change of mind in the meantime. In the best case, they've just blown said 15 to 25m out of the window, because the player would have joined them anyway. In the worst case, he'll really have that feared change of mind and they'll have paid 70m for a player who wants to be elsewhere. After half a day I still can't wrap my mind around their logic. Not that I'm complaining. 65 to 75m is better than 50 or 55m, especially with the additional bonus of having no transfer circus in winter. The most important thing is, another such situation solved without the player going on strike. I'm not sure what one deal proves, other than one deal was made. The thing is, football clubs and football fans have a tendency to see players as commodities. That needs to stop. They are human beings, with hopes and dreams and feelings just like the rest of us, a few of them are even capable of feeling 'love'. George Michael and Ronaldo once suggested they are slaves, I wouldn't go that far because it cheapens the word 'slavery', but it is the next worst thing, because when you coerce human beings to sign these long term contracts, knowing full well they might change their mind a year or 3 years down the line, then it becomes a morally bankrupt system when you hold a person to a decision they made years ago when they were in a completely different place. It is not okay to block a young person's dream, no matter what the law says. You need to stop dehumanising them, Mandragora, they are not property, they are human beings. Gandhi once said "Be the change that you wish to see in the world". Very wise words indeed. I'm not "dehumanizing" anyone, get a grip. In what kind of Kumbayah world are you living? Nobody has been coerced into a contract here. They are adults who have signed contracts out of their free will.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 12:48:50 GMT
I'm not "dehumanizing" anyone, get a grip. In what kind of Kumbayah world are you living? That sounds a little bit like, dare I say it, what the plantation owners said to their slaves when they begged to be set free. I think if you look into your heart, you will find the right answer.
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Post by mandragora on Aug 29, 2017 13:02:57 GMT
I'm not "dehumanizing" anyone, get a grip. In what kind of Kumbayah world are you living? That sounds a little bit like, dare I say it, what the plantation owners said to their slaves when they begged to be set free. I think if you look into your heart, you will find the right answer. You should both join our Green Party, would be the perfect place. Everybody has to be treated like underage children and deprived of their right to make a decision of their own, because the ordinary citizen can't possibly be expected to take responsibility for anything they do or any decision they make. Everyone must be protected from their own incompetence by rules and regulations set by politicians who know everything better. The whole thing is then sold as "humanitarian" and "warm-hearted", and nobody seems to notice how condescending and degrading that attitude actually is.
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Sept 2, 2017 13:07:24 GMT
According to Barcelona Liverpool tried to sell them Coutinho for €200m on the last day.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Sept 2, 2017 16:10:12 GMT
According to Barcelona Liverpool tried to sell them Coutinho for €200m on the last day. Subsequently denied by LFC. The whole Coutinho saga was a bit weird as far as Barcelona go - FSG, to their credit, put out a pretty strong statement right from the off that no offers would be entertained, then made jo further comment. Then all we got was word of these daft offers staggered over multiple years, with ludicrous add-ons. Pretty amateurish from the Catalans. Personally, I think it's good for football - same as with the Van Dijk case. If you absolutely don't want to be at a club more than x amount of years, don't sign a contract for x+1 years. It's really that simple... Unless you're Alexis Sanchez 😂
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