Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 1:57:53 GMT
They only had enough ideas for star wars for 3 films.It doesn't work as an expanded universe because it was never designed to be that. So it doesn't really matter how good the director or whoever else is involved in making star wars films, its still gonna suck.
|
|
|
|
Post by RiP, IMDb on Aug 22, 2017 2:00:00 GMT
They only had enough ideas for star wars for 3 films.It doesn't work as an expanded universe because it was never designed to be that. So it doesn't really matter how good the director or whoever else is involved in making star wars films, its still gonna suck. |
|
|
|
Post by RiP, IMDb on Aug 22, 2017 2:06:47 GMT
They only had enough ideas for star wars for 3 films.It doesn't work as an expanded universe because it was never designed to be that. So it doesn't really matter how good the director or whoever else is involved in making star wars films, its still gonna suck. |
|
barkingbaphomet
Junior Member
all backlit and creepysmoking
@barkingbaphomet
Posts: 2,252
Likes: 1,006
|
Post by barkingbaphomet on Aug 22, 2017 2:58:01 GMT
if only there were people whose job it was was to make things up and form stories out of them. alas.
|
|
Flynn
Sophomore
@flynn
Posts: 515
Likes: 270
 
|
Post by Flynn on Aug 22, 2017 3:20:23 GMT
I disagree somewhat. There seems to be an implicit idea in your argument that expanded universes are good and that STAR WARS only sucks post original trilogy (POT) because it doesn't work as an expanded universe. Speaking for myself only, I don't think expanded cinematic universes work at all. It just waters down a narrative that could take place in one film and expands it to 3 (or more). It starts to feel like a soap opera where things happen very slowly.
The second trilogy could have worked, but it wasn't written well. Lucas didn't structure the stories right, didn't cast the right actors, didn't have someone to take his good ideas and throw out his bad ones. This next trilogy is just a rehash of the first.
The problem with STAR WARS for me is that it has lost its mythic quality.
|
|
|
|
Post by ck100 on Aug 22, 2017 3:50:12 GMT
The second trilogy could have worked, but it wasn't written well. Lucas didn't structure the stories right, didn't cast the right actors, didn't have someone to take his good ideas and throw out his bad ones. This next trilogy is just a rehash of the first. I don't think the problem with the prequels was the way the stories were structured, the actors that were cast, or the ideas that were put out. The prequel trilogy just simply had problems due to the way Lucas writes and directs. And I think it's unfair to judge this current trilogy without seeing Episode 8 and 9 since they're not out yet. |
|
Flynn
Sophomore
@flynn
Posts: 515
Likes: 270
|
Post by Flynn on Aug 22, 2017 4:20:27 GMT
The second trilogy could have worked, but it wasn't written well. Lucas didn't structure the stories right, didn't cast the right actors, didn't have someone to take his good ideas and throw out his bad ones. This next trilogy is just a rehash of the first. I don't think the problem with the prequels was the way the stories were structured, the actors that were cast, or the ideas that were put out. The prequel trilogy just simply had problems due to the way Lucas writes and directs. And I think it's unfair to judge this current trilogy without seeing Episode 8 and 9 since they're not out yet. I disagree completely. Anakin's turn toward the dark side should have occurred in the third movie, not the second. He should have risen to the role of hero in II; instead he was an impetuous know-it-all who clearly was headed down the wrong path. He should have been like Luke, but whereas Luke refused the call of the dark side, Anakin gave into it. As for the current trilogy, I think it's perfectly fair to judge it based on TFA (and RO for that matter). They've set storylines in motion that will payoff in the upcoming films. It doesn't take much straining to figure out where it's all headed (in the big picture). If that isn't a direction that interests me, there's nothing wrong with me speaking out about it. I don't see why we have to be so passive in our viewing experience, constantly giving the benefit of the doubt to people who seem more interested in milking audiences for money and giving geek moments than making a good movie with a solid script. |
|
|
|
Post by kingkoopa on Aug 22, 2017 4:58:30 GMT
I disagree somewhat. There seems to be an implicit idea in your argument that expanded universes are good and that STAR WARS only sucks post original trilogy (POT) because it doesn't work as an expanded universe. Speaking for myself only, I don't think expanded cinematic universes work at all. It just waters down a narrative that could take place in one film and expands it to 3 (or more). It starts to feel like a soap opera where things happen very slowly. The second trilogy could have worked, but it wasn't written well. Lucas didn't structure the stories right, didn't cast the right actors, didn't have someone to take his good ideas and throw out his bad ones. This next trilogy is just a rehash of the first. The problem with STAR WARS for me is that it has lost its mythic quality. You make a lot of good points. One thing I think Lucas does right as a storyteller (and its kind of distinctive), is structure his universe in a non-static time. For instance, he sets his first Star Wars movie as Episode 4 and Indiana Jones as episode 50-something. I find this clever...while "A New Hope" is centered on Luke Skywalker (who is the new hope in the title), the universe is 'already going.' I don't need a backstory to why Tarkin is imposing and can seemingly order around the scarier, stronger Darth Vader. It relieves a lot of exposition and helps with immersion IMHO. It's like rolling up the window after you've been asleep on a train. You're already in the city and the plot has been progressing since before you tuned in. I quite like it actually and think it makes characters like Han Solo and Obi-Wan more believable...they seem like they live in this universe without having to explain everything to the audience. And like a train, there is momentum, because you're only driving by that town for a little while, and it will be going about its business far after you've been gone. Lucas did this effectively in the OT, but the PT was a lot of going back to the town, stopping, and removing any romantic veneer you might have thought about riding by. I don't know if that makes sense... I mean, I don't know how the hell Han understands what Chewie is saying! How Chewie can articulate some of the things he's meant to can be a little bit of a reach, but this universe plays it right down the middle. Han can understand Chewie and we don't know why because its reasonable to imagine a scenario in which Luke asks "how do you understand Chewie?" with Han replying "I just do, kid." (Not as clumsily written as mine) I think the prequel trilogy (and many modern movies) fall in the trap of having to explain every last detail. Removing the mystique is good in some areas (I liked the PT's exploration of the Emeperor) but cheapens the mythos in others (midichlorians). When it was just "the force" it was more interesting and almost more believable. HURUMMPHHH! Not a huge Star Wars fan, but have always stayed tuned due to Lucas's ability to create such a vast and diverse universe. Blasphemy, but I like stay tuned to Star Trek for many of the same reasons. |
|
|
|
Post by mslo79 on Aug 22, 2017 5:30:57 GMT
Hell, i could not even finish watching the first one from 1977 as it's boring.
if that's any indication of the rest of the series... it's one of the most overrated movies(or series) of all-time considering it's popularity with a certain group of people out there and how well they did in the theaters back in their day. like that iconic status etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 22, 2017 19:56:36 GMT
Star Wars ANH and ESB are great movies. ROTJ is less so because its only real purpose is to wrap up what was set up in the previous two.
The prequels suck because I honestly think Lucas lost his touch in the intervening years and didn't have anyone to tell him so. He was surrounded by too many yes men that were in awe of him and Star Wars in general.
The current trilogy is too young to be called a complete failure already because we've only seen one movie from it. TFA as a single movie can be discussed, but I think its unfair to completely disregard it as only a re-hash because it also goes in some new directions too. We'll have to see what The Last Jedi does for the series...
Ultimately, its all Star Wars, which we love, so its all good. How can it be bad that we're getting new movies? Its insanity to automatically assume that they're all going to be bad from here on out because you didn't like TFA. Some are going to be good and some are going to be bad. We'll just have to see.
In the meantime, rejoice! We're getting more Star Wars!
p.s. As for Expanded Universe being bad... nonsense. Take a look a Boba Fett. What a awesome character he is and he's %90 Expanded Universe! Some characters even more so! Aura Sing appeared for literally under a second! Star Wars Expanded Universe may actually be the MOST awesome Expanded Universe, in part because WE the fans expanded it! Most of what makes Boba Fett and Darth Maul cool is what we imagine and fill in the blanks about them. |
|
|
|
Post by outrider127 on Aug 22, 2017 23:44:47 GMT
They only had enough ideas for star wars for 3 films.It doesn't work as an expanded universe because it was never designed to be that. So it doesn't really matter how good the director or whoever else is involved in making star wars films, its still gonna suck. Agree |
|
|
|
Post by outrider127 on Aug 22, 2017 23:47:12 GMT
Hell, i could not even finish watching the first one from 1977 as it's boring. if that's any indication of the rest of the series... it's one of the most overrated movies(or series) of all-time considering it's popularity with a certain group of people out there and how well they did in the theaters back in their day. like that iconic status etc. Agree,I found the first Star Wars movie from 1977 to be stupid and boring--The next one was better, but the third one was dumb also |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 1:02:09 GMT
if only there were people whose job it was was to make things up and form stories out of them. alas. I honestly have no idea what you're getting at. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 1:11:47 GMT
I disagree somewhat. There seems to be an implicit idea in your argument that expanded universes are good and that STAR WARS only sucks post original trilogy (POT) because it doesn't work as an expanded universe. Speaking for myself only, I don't think expanded cinematic universes work at all. It just waters down a narrative that could take place in one film and expands it to 3 (or more). It starts to feel like a soap opera where things happen very slowly. The second trilogy could have worked, but it wasn't written well. Lucas didn't structure the stories right, didn't cast the right actors, didn't have someone to take his good ideas and throw out his bad ones. This next trilogy is just a rehash of the first. The problem with STAR WARS for me is that it has lost its mythic quality.
The expanded universe that I was referring to is the books, comic books, video games, toys, and other assorted media. Because that's what an expanded universe is. It has nothing to do with the star wars films themselves. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 1:27:00 GMT
Hell, i could not even finish watching the first one from 1977 as it's boring. if that's any indication of the rest of the series... it's one of the most overrated movies(or series) of all-time considering it's popularity with a certain group of people out there and how well they did in the theaters back in their day. like that iconic status etc. Star Trek is better. |
|
Flynn
Sophomore
@flynn
Posts: 515
Likes: 270
|
Post by Flynn on Aug 23, 2017 2:52:47 GMT
I disagree somewhat. There seems to be an implicit idea in your argument that expanded universes are good and that STAR WARS only sucks post original trilogy (POT) because it doesn't work as an expanded universe. Speaking for myself only, I don't think expanded cinematic universes work at all. It just waters down a narrative that could take place in one film and expands it to 3 (or more). It starts to feel like a soap opera where things happen very slowly. The second trilogy could have worked, but it wasn't written well. Lucas didn't structure the stories right, didn't cast the right actors, didn't have someone to take his good ideas and throw out his bad ones. This next trilogy is just a rehash of the first. The problem with STAR WARS for me is that it has lost its mythic quality.
The expanded universe that I was referring to is the books, comic books, video games, toys, and other assorted media. Because that's what an expanded universe is. It has nothing to do with the star wars films themselves. Then your argument doesn't make sense. You specifically mentioned the first trilogy, which focuses the conversations on the first three films, but the EU had already begun to grow before the original trilogy had ended, as there was the Christmas special, comic books, and more. So does the EU not suck before the trilogy ended but then ended up sucking after? Plus, that something wasn't intended to to be an EU doesn't preclude it from having a good EU. As EUs go, I think STAR WARS has one of the better ones, the films discounting. Most EUs that start out planned kind of suck. And no need to lecture me on EUs. I know what they are. I was steeped in STAR WARS EU in the 1970s and 1980s. I was once very familiar with it. Also, I did qualify my response by referring to the cinematic EU. |
|
|
|
Post by mslo79 on Aug 23, 2017 5:46:52 GMT
outrider127I was wondering if the one from 1980 (the second movie) would be at least watchable enough to finish but after that first movie i am in no hurry to give it a chance. i kept on putting off seeing Star Wars (1977) for a long time already but finally got around to give it a chance on July 29th 2015 and could not finish it due to boredom and turned it off @ 1hr. prior to seeing it... i figured it was likely they would be overrated for me but i did not expect it to be as bad as it was to the point that i could not even finish it. but anyways, from what your saying... it seems like the one from 1980 might at least be okay enough to finish it. but like i was saying after that bad taste in my mouth from the 1977 movie that will likely be years, maybe decades, before i give it a chance. p.s. i am pretty sure i caught a little of those Star Wars movies on TV back around the late 1980's/early 1990's (i was born late 1979) but i never really sat down and gave it a legit viewing/chance til July 29th 2015. @mellomoviereview I would not expect to think much of that either but it's possible i could agree with this in a very basic sense as it would not be difficult to top Star Wars (1977) given it's amongst that group of movies i could not finish due to boredom which pretty much means it's in that bottom-of-the-barrel area of movies for me. like, on average over the long term, it's roughly 1 out of every 15 movies i see i cannot finish due to boredom.
|
|
|
|
Post by fartyfartsalot on Aug 23, 2017 5:51:52 GMT
I haven't seen "The Force Awakens" and "Rogue One" but.... are they as good as the first three films?
|
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 23, 2017 16:24:31 GMT
They only had enough ideas for star wars for 3 films.It doesn't work as an expanded universe because it was never designed to be that. So it doesn't really matter how good the director or whoever else is involved in making star wars films, its still gonna suck.
well this is as clumsy as it is stupid.
I. In fact it is well documented that the basic script ideas for "The Star Wars" were all laid down in the very first film, which was drastically shortened. The other elements like the Vader or Leia twist and narratives were only added later, thus the many plot holes in the OT.
II. Anybody who claims that the prequel trilogy is bereft of genuine ideas must dwell on the dim side of the Force. Love or hate them, but this is improved storytelling from the black and white who’s-my-daddy fairy tale of the OT to the dystopian mythology showing the downfall of an entire society. We see a democracy and Republic stumble over itself. We see that mirrored with a young man falling over his inability to let go of attachments and causing the fall of institutions such as the Jedi. And we see demagogues rise.
Palatine’s plot is the best writing in Star Wars (or Lucas career). In fact I just stumbled over this: Noted art critic Camille Paglia makes that claim in her book Glittering Images, calling George Lucas’ final Star Wars film the greatest work of art of the past 30 years.
III. The Sequels are admittedly trash so far: EpVII TFA is an unimaginative and unoriginal best-of rehash with fanfic level writing. Rogue One is a good movie but was not too rich on ideas (still a vast improvement). Let's hope Ep VIII will be an improvement over TFA.
Only a Sithhead deals in absolutes. 
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 18:35:12 GMT
I don`t think the Star Wars movies after the original trilogy are that bad. Sure they are not as good as the original trilogy but they are not as bad as some people claim them to be.
And that is all i will say about it.
|
|
