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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 13:50:30 GMT
The story idea I'm hoping for would be to have Luke allow Snoke to kill him. This will be his final, greatest sacrifice and he'll do it to save Ren and Rey. Snoke would then possess Luke's body and become the ultimate dark side machine. Win/win. We get to see Dark Side Luke onscreen whilst not only maintaining his virtue, but actually, increasing his virtue. And hey, if they want to have Luke use the line, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine," who am I to argue? Pffff. I like the new characters but neither one is even worth Luke's robotic hand in exchange. Him dying for them isn't a "win/win" at all.  He gon' die whether you like it or don't  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 13:52:09 GMT
The story idea I'm hoping for would be to have Luke allow Snoke to kill him. This will be his final, greatest sacrifice and he'll do it to save Ren and Rey. Snoke would then possess Luke's body and become the ultimate dark side machine. Win/win. We get to see Dark Side Luke onscreen whilst not only maintaining his virtue, but actually, increasing his virtue. And hey, if they want to have Luke use the line, "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine," who am I to argue? I don't think any true Darkside master would sacrifice themselves. That notion is something more fitting of a grey Jedi. Yes, Vader sacrificed himself for Luke. But there was an undercurrent of grey Jedi in him IMO. Luke sensed it. But the Emperor never did. The line "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." is a quote from a Jedi. A Jedi concept. So if he is also using the Darkside in TLJ then that would make Luke a Dark Jedi. Just my opinion. I'm not proposing that Luke will become a Dark Jedi. Luke will remain in the Light until he dies. I'm saying I hope his body is possessed. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 14:03:36 GMT
Because I hate the idea of Grey Jedi in general. It's stupid. Okay. Not following you here. In your opinion why is a grey Jedi stupid? You don't think in the thousands of years of Jedi history that no Jedis would attempt balancing between the Light and Dark? Or attempt to master both sides of the Force? Just curious why you find it stupid. I know you didn't. But it seems apparent from the trailer that Rey is trained by Luke. And I doubt she would agree to that if he were a Dark Jedi. Oh, I'm sure they would and that's why the EU explored the idea. And, actually, you could argue that canon includes them as well. I just don't like the idea. "Balance of the Force" is a major theme of all these movies. I like the idea of polar opposites - both indispensable in the galaxy - existing in pure format like the Sith and the Jedi. I relish in the notion that these two forces are always in motion, pushing one another. I do not like the idea that the way to gain balance is to enjoy a happy medium. For one thing, it leads to a dead end. Where's the conflict in that? Second, and more importantly, if the franchise moves in the direction of "resolving to grey" as the TFA novelization seems to indicate, it will mean the end of the traditional Jedi/Sith conflict. That is one of two things that would make me think twice about following SW in the future. The Sith are the best thing going in the SW galaxy. Also, I do not think Luke will become a Dark Jedi. I think you misunderstood my meaning in previous posts. The Dark Side Luke I want to see would only occur in the final showdown of this trilogy and it wouldn't really be Luke at all. It would be Snoke using Luke's body. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 14:07:17 GMT
So, this whole Grey nonsense...there is no 'light' or 'dark' side of the force, it's all the user. The user is either mostly selfless and free of fear/doubt(Jedi), or they're self focused and use negative emotion (fear, hatred, greed) to fuel their use of the force(sith, dark Jedi). I think of it akin to LOTR and the ring(or stress eating, heh)...the power feeds the emotions, and the emotions feed the power. A 'grey' jedi would just be someone that embraces their own fears/pain/hate, but doesn't let the power accessed via those emotions consume them. It's pretty straight forward in the EU. The force doesn't kill people, people kill people. What? Of course there's a light side and a dark side. What the hell franchise have you been watching, Ryboto? |
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Post by ryboto on Sept 1, 2017 14:12:56 GMT
So, this whole Grey nonsense...there is no 'light' or 'dark' side of the force, it's all the user. The user is either mostly selfless and free of fear/doubt(Jedi), or they're self focused and use negative emotion (fear, hatred, greed) to fuel their use of the force(sith, dark Jedi). I think of it akin to LOTR and the ring(or stress eating, heh)...the power feeds the emotions, and the emotions feed the power. A 'grey' jedi would just be someone that embraces their own fears/pain/hate, but doesn't let the power accessed via those emotions consume them. It's pretty straight forward in the EU. The force doesn't kill people, people kill people. What? Of course there's a light side and a dark side. What the hell franchise have you been watching, Ryboto? The force is energy. It's neither light or dark, it's all about the user. What the hell franchise have you been watching, winterssuicide? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 14:20:47 GMT
What? Of course there's a light side and a dark side. What the hell franchise have you been watching, Ryboto? The force is energy. It's neither light or dark, it's all about the user. What the hell franchise have you been watching, winterssuicide? The franchise that dealt with Mortis, The Father, The Son and The Daughter, the latter two being embodiments of the dark and light sides, respectively. The same franchise that breaks the Force into two distinct aspects: Bogan and Ashla. The same franchise that imbues objects with dark side energy, including entire planets. |
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Post by egon1982 on Sept 1, 2017 14:22:14 GMT
So will he turn to the darkside like his dad?
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Post by ryboto on Sept 1, 2017 14:26:18 GMT
The force is energy. It's neither light or dark, it's all about the user. What the hell franchise have you been watching, winterssuicide? The franchise that dealt with Mortis, The Father, The Son and The Daughter, the latter two being embodiments of the dark and light sides, respectively. The same franchise that breaks the Force into two distinct aspects: Bogan and Ashla. The same franchise that imbues objects with dark side energy, including entire planets. Everything I've read and seen enforces the fact that the Force itself is neither light or dark. Read between the lines. The USERS imbue objects. The USERS are what leave marks. Not the Force itself. It's always character interpretations of the force, but when did it ever actually do anything of it's own will prior to TFA or R1? Never. It's people using an energy field. Some are tempted by the power and succumb to it, others coincide/live with it symbiotically(or as close as they can come) with it. It's incredibly simple. edit: most jedi believe in this light/dark, or they at least use the terms as if that's how they see things. From the book Traitor, Vergere, a Jedi from before the fall of the Republic says this: |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 14:38:06 GMT
The franchise that dealt with Mortis, The Father, The Son and The Daughter, the latter two being embodiments of the dark and light sides, respectively. The same franchise that breaks the Force into two distinct aspects: Bogan and Ashla. The same franchise that imbues objects with dark side energy, including entire planets. Everything I've read and seen enforces the fact that the Force itself is neither light or dark. Read between the lines. The USERS imbue objects. The USERS are what leave marks. Not the Force itself. It's always character interpretations of the force, but when did it ever actually do anything of it's own will prior to TFA or R1? Never. It's people using an energy field. Some are tempted by the power and succumb to it, others coincide with it. It's incredibly simple. Sorry, but that's not accurate. The dark side of the Force is a "thing" and the light side of the Force is a separate "thing." This is why they gave you the story of the Son and Daughter and why they gave you the examples of Ashla and Bogan. That's canon. Also, if it were as simple as "people using an energy field," please explain how/why entire planets are inherently strong with the dark side? Also, the EU is chock full of instances where the dark side called to sentient beings, gave them visions, etc. It is very clear in these instances that the user is not in control. Not a bit. And then - again, in canon - Sidious believed his power originated in the Unknown Regions. He thought of it as external, not internal. But this should settle it, right: showcase.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_side_of_the_Forceshowcase.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Light_side_of_the_Force |
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Post by ryboto on Sept 1, 2017 14:43:08 GMT
Everything I've read and seen enforces the fact that the Force itself is neither light or dark. Read between the lines. The USERS imbue objects. The USERS are what leave marks. Not the Force itself. It's always character interpretations of the force, but when did it ever actually do anything of it's own will prior to TFA or R1? Never. It's people using an energy field. Some are tempted by the power and succumb to it, others coincide with it. It's incredibly simple. Sorry, but that's not accurate. The dark side of the Force is a "thing" and the light side of the Force is a separate "thing." This is why they gave you the story of the Son and Daughter and why they gave you the examples of Ashla and Bogan. That's canon. Also, if it were as simple as "people using an energy field," please explain how/why entire planets are inherently strong with the dark side? Also, the EU is chock full of instances where the dark side called to sentient beings, gave them visions, etc. It is very clear in these instances that the user is not in control. Not a bit. And then - again, in canon - Sidious believed his power originated in the Unknown Regions. He thought of it as external, not internal. But this should settle it, right: showcase.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_side_of_the_Forceshowcase.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Light_side_of_the_ForceAnd again, you're wrong. I've yet to get to a point where the force showed it's will in any of the EU content. If it did I'd give up on the franchise. It's not magic, it's Energy. Even in your links it all boils down to the user, the force is in fact neutral. Their power still comes from within, not from some magical dark energy that exists in between the magical light energy. It's ALL the same energy. Edit: as for a planet being 'dark', it could happen just the same as a place being 'dark' after a 'dark' user dies or leaves a mark. The Dark Side is not a cancer of the Force |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 14:46:33 GMT
The franchise that dealt with Mortis, The Father, The Son and The Daughter, the latter two being embodiments of the dark and light sides, respectively. The same franchise that breaks the Force into two distinct aspects: Bogan and Ashla. The same franchise that imbues objects with dark side energy, including entire planets. Everything I've read and seen enforces the fact that the Force itself is neither light or dark. Read between the lines. The USERS imbue objects. The USERS are what leave marks. Not the Force itself. It's always character interpretations of the force, but when did it ever actually do anything of it's own will prior to TFA or R1? Never. It's people using an energy field. Some are tempted by the power and succumb to it, others coincide/live with it symbiotically(or as close as they can come) with it. It's incredibly simple. edit: most jedi believe in this light/dark, or they at least use the terms as if that's how they see things. From the book Traitor, Vergere, a Jedi from before the fall of the Republic says this: Dude, I'm using canon arguments and official definitions. You're quoting a Legends book that hardly anyone read. Also, and perhaps this is where you are confused, there is an aspect of the Force that is neutral. Thus, The Father. |
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Post by ryboto on Sept 1, 2017 14:48:03 GMT
Everything I've read and seen enforces the fact that the Force itself is neither light or dark. Read between the lines. The USERS imbue objects. The USERS are what leave marks. Not the Force itself. It's always character interpretations of the force, but when did it ever actually do anything of it's own will prior to TFA or R1? Never. It's people using an energy field. Some are tempted by the power and succumb to it, others coincide/live with it symbiotically(or as close as they can come) with it. It's incredibly simple. edit: most jedi believe in this light/dark, or they at least use the terms as if that's how they see things. From the book Traitor, Vergere, a Jedi from before the fall of the Republic says this: Dude, I'm using canon arguments and official definitions. You're quoting a Legends book that hardly anyone read. Also, and perhaps this is where you are confused, there is an aspect of the Force that is neutral. Thus, The Father. I can't teach the blind to see. Even in your "definitions" it's spelling it out for you. It's the user. You seem pretty confused about this. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 14:51:09 GMT
Sorry, but that's not accurate. The dark side of the Force is a "thing" and the light side of the Force is a separate "thing." This is why they gave you the story of the Son and Daughter and why they gave you the examples of Ashla and Bogan. That's canon. Also, if it were as simple as "people using an energy field," please explain how/why entire planets are inherently strong with the dark side? Also, the EU is chock full of instances where the dark side called to sentient beings, gave them visions, etc. It is very clear in these instances that the user is not in control. Not a bit. And then - again, in canon - Sidious believed his power originated in the Unknown Regions. He thought of it as external, not internal. But this should settle it, right: showcase.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_side_of_the_Forceshowcase.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Light_side_of_the_ForceAnd again, you're wrong. I've yet to get to a point where the force showed it's will in any of the EU content. If it did I'd give up on the franchise. It's not magic, it's Energy. Even in your links it all boils down to the user, the force is in fact neutral. Their power still comes from within, not from some magical dark energy that exists in between the magical light energy. It's ALL the same energy. Edit: as for a planet being 'dark', it could happen just the same as a place being 'dark' after a 'dark' user dies or leaves a mark. The Dark Side is not a cancer of the ForceWow, you are really having to pull some shit out of your ass now, lol. Linking to an unofficial blog theory? And if you didn't come across EU material that discussed the will of either aspect of the Force, you clearly haven't read Darth Plagueis. There's like 40 instances of the dark side doing things on its own in that book. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 14:52:27 GMT
Dude, I'm using canon arguments and official definitions. You're quoting a Legends book that hardly anyone read. Also, and perhaps this is where you are confused, there is an aspect of the Force that is neutral. Thus, The Father. Ah, please expound on this idea. |
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Post by ryboto on Sept 1, 2017 15:40:42 GMT
If you are truly set on this insane idea there there's a dark energy out there nested in between the pockets of good energy, ok. Fine, enjoy your fantasy. I'll avoid Darth Plagueis then if it doesn't adhere to the creators definition, which actually makes consistent sense.
Last thing I'll say is responding to your last request:
That quote, from the link you posted regarding the dark side, does not imply that there is a literal dark side. It implies they draw their power in the force from said emotions. It implies the individual is 'dark' by the way in which they use the force. It does not imply there's some dark side that's perpendicular to the light, or is somehow hidden and is only accessed if you're emotional. They used a neutral energy for negative purpose, personal gain, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 15:51:09 GMT
If you are truly set on this insane idea there there's a dark energy out there nested in between the pockets of good energy, ok. Fine, enjoy your fantasy. I'll avoid Darth Plagueis then if it doesn't adhere to the creators definition, which actually makes consistent sense. Last thing I'll say is responding to your last request: That quote, from the link you posted regarding the dark side, does not imply that there is a dark side. It implies they draw their power in the force from said emotions. It does not imply there's some dark side that's perpendicular to the light, or is somehow hidden and is only accessed if you're emotional. LOL! You can't just cherry pick the line from it that suits your argument. There's an important sentence before that one: The dark side of the Force, also known as the Bogan,[1] or simply as Bad force,[2][3] was an aspect of the Force.
"aspect of the force," meaning, it is a thing. By definition, anything that is labeled an "aspect" is a thing. Also, the sentence you are using as a means for your argument, ironically, proves that you are wrong. "Individuals use..." something. What do they use? Not "The Force!" They use what? "the dark side." Users use the dark side of the Force. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 16:25:09 GMT
If you are truly set on this insane idea there there's a dark energy out there nested in between the pockets of good energy, ok. Fine, enjoy your fantasy. I'll avoid Darth Plagueis then if it doesn't adhere to the creators definition, which actually makes consistent sense. Last thing I'll say is responding to your last request: That quote, from the link you posted regarding the dark side, does not imply that there is a literal dark side. It implies they draw their power in the force from said emotions. It implies the individual is 'dark' by the way in which they use the force. It does not imply there's some dark side that's perpendicular to the light, or is somehow hidden and is only accessed if you're emotional. They used a neutral energy for negative purpose, personal gain, etc. I also find it funny that you used the word "dark energy" above. So you don't think there's such a thing as dark energy, eh? LOL! How do you think Starkiller Base's weapon worked then? It harnessed dark energy! Ryboto, the Force is with you, but you are not a Jedi yet! |
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Post by ryboto on Sept 1, 2017 16:54:32 GMT
If you are truly set on this insane idea there there's a dark energy out there nested in between the pockets of good energy, ok. Fine, enjoy your fantasy. I'll avoid Darth Plagueis then if it doesn't adhere to the creators definition, which actually makes consistent sense. Last thing I'll say is responding to your last request: That quote, from the link you posted regarding the dark side, does not imply that there is a literal dark side. It implies they draw their power in the force from said emotions. It implies the individual is 'dark' by the way in which they use the force. It does not imply there's some dark side that's perpendicular to the light, or is somehow hidden and is only accessed if you're emotional. They used a neutral energy for negative purpose, personal gain, etc. I also find it funny that you used the word "dark energy" above. So you don't think there's such a thing as dark energy, eh? LOL! How do you think Starkiller Base's weapon worked then? It harnessed dark energy! Ryboto, the Force is with you, but you are not a Jedi yet! It ate suns Or maybe I imagined it.  Magic dark side power..it's not even humorous it's just fucking dumb. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 17:00:31 GMT
I also find it funny that you used the word "dark energy" above. So you don't think there's such a thing as dark energy, eh? LOL! How do you think Starkiller Base's weapon worked then? It harnessed dark energy! Ryboto, the Force is with you, but you are not a Jedi yet! It ate suns Or maybe I imagined it. Magic dark side power..it's not even humorous it's just fucking dumb. While "it ate suns" is accurate, one must ask the question: exactly what kind of energy was it using from these stars? Answer: dark energy. So you are factually incorrect when you assert there is no such thing as "dark energy" in the SW galaxy. Starkiller Base's weapon was proof that there was. "Magic dark side power...fucking dumb." LOL! No wonder you didn't like TFA. You don't like any of the SW movies! They all deal with "fucking dumb" stuff like magic dark side power! |
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Post by ryboto on Sept 1, 2017 17:10:43 GMT
It ate suns Or maybe I imagined it. Magic dark side power..it's not even humorous it's just fucking dumb. While "it ate suns" is accurate, one must ask the question: exactly what kind of energy was it using from these stars? Answer: dark energy. So you are factually incorrect when you assert there is no such thing as "dark energy" in the SW galaxy. Starkiller Base's weapon was proof that there was. "Magic dark side power...fucking dumb." LOL! No wonder you didn't like TFA. You don't like any of the SW movies! They all deal with "fucking dumb" stuff like magic dark side power! ahahahahahaha! Ahahahahahaha! so fucking stupid. Disney turned it into the magic you stupidly thought it was. Holy shit that's fucking dumb. Wow. That's absolutely fucking stupid. Nowhere in the film do they reference dark energy...Why not just use, oh, i don't know, the energy from the sun? Disney is making SW magic/fantasy bullshit wish fulfillment! Awesome! But seriously...hahahahahahaha! It's gone well beyond shit now, it's in the ludicrous-verse now. Hahahaha...dark energy...fucking...just garbage. |
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