spiderwort
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Post by spiderwort on Sept 3, 2017 0:26:38 GMT
Mise-en-scene: "The arrangement of everything that appears in the framing – actors, lighting, décor, props, costume – is called mise-en-scène, a French term that means 'placing on stage.' The frame and camerawork are also considered part of the mise-en-scène of a movie."
Ford was a master of static mise-en-scene. And his films were constantly filled not only with beautiful shots but with performances playing out fully without the interruption and manipulation of editing. Not to say he couldn't use a cut beautifully, but he never did it unless he knew it was necessary and meaningful.
There's a great story about the wedding scene in How Green Was My Valley: In a wide master, Maureen O'Hara comes down the steps of the church with her new husband and gets into a horse drawn carriage in the foreground. Deep, deep in the background Walter Pidgeon (her true love, so small in the frame he's barely recognizable) steps out on the horizon to watch her drive away. Ford's DP asked if he wanted to shoot a close-up of Pidgeon, and Ford said, "Hell, no. If I shoot it, they'll use it." He loved those kind of magnificent shots loaded with layers of information and always had the courage to use them when they were appropriate to his vision.
I love Ford's style - in the majority of his films - precisely because he had the courage and the vision to choreograph his scenes in the way he did. I love that he wasn't afraid to let his actors work in a beautiful frame without cutting their performances to bits. I love that he moved his actors into close-ups instead of cutting to them. I love that he used "deep focus" blocking before there was a name for it. I love that he moved the camera sparingly and to great effect, like the strong push in on John Wayne in a powerful moment in Stagecoach.
His influence on American cinema has been profound. Orson Welles, when asked to name his three favorite directors, replied, "John Ford, John Ford, and John Ford."
Welles' use of a static mise-en-scene was profoundly derivative of Ford. More "baroque," perhaps, but still one canvas after another that hearkened back to the Ford aesthetic.
I wonder how many directors have the desire - or even know how - to design their shots like that today? _____________
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 3, 2017 0:31:27 GMT
spiderwort said I wonder how many directors have the desire - or even know how - to design their shots like that today?
Most don't bother since the scene is going to be blown up pretty soon. (Bat said cynically and only half-kiddingly.
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Post by mattgarth on Sept 3, 2017 0:39:46 GMT
Another interesting thread from Spider.
And another Ford example:
THE SEARCHERS -- Texas Ranger Captain & Preacher Ward Bond lingers over a cup of coffee in the Edwards' kitchen before embarking on the posse's journey. He casually glances towards the adjoining bedroom.
Cut to the wife lovingly folding brother-in-law Ethan's Johnny Reb cavalry cape.
Cut back to Bond looking straight ahead, never to reveal the intimate moment he has just witnessed.
Three quick shots that say so much.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 3, 2017 0:43:29 GMT
Is this the wedding shot you mentioned ? spiderwort
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Post by petrolino on Sept 3, 2017 1:31:21 GMT
John Ford won an incredible 4 Oscars for Best Director; King Vidor was born the same year, 1894, yet never won one - though he did receive an Honorary Oscar late in life. I tend to think of John Ford alongside contemporaries like Vidor, William Wellman, Howard Hawks & Leo McCarey (all born in 1896), Raoul Walsh (born 1897). It's funny to think great American directors like Sam Wood, John Cromwell and Victor Fleming were born in the 1880s, some years earlier than Ford. There were so many important filmmakers who helped shape American cinema as we know it and exerted a profound influence upon the arts globally. But John Ford is usually held up as the greatest of all.
Ford's films are visually stunning. I feel he had a poetic sensibility. Even his movies I don't much care for have moments I can cherish; the mark of a great director.
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spiderwort
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@spiderwort
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Post by spiderwort on Sept 3, 2017 1:33:01 GMT
Is this the wedding shot you mentioned ? spiderwort Yes, it is. The scene starts with a medium shot of the bride and groom coming down the steps of the church, cuts out to a wide shot with the carriage in the foreground as they climb into it. Way in the background we see Pidgeon as a tiny image in the distance. If memory serves your image is the next cut, then it cuts back to the wide shot as the couple drives away, with Pidgeon again tiny in the shot. We never see his face in the scene. I find it so much more powerful than a close-up would have been.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 3, 2017 1:35:27 GMT
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 3, 2017 1:51:45 GMT
spiderwortI don't think Ford was always great with actors.
I made the mistake of reading a couple of biographies of actors who had worked with Ford. What a piece of work he was BUT what beautiful films he made. Sometimes I find it difficult to watch the films knowing what the actors went through working with him. Difficult but not impossible as the films themselves are so amazingly good and poetic and frequently funny. He had his "stable" of regulars but there are some who worked with him once and said "never again".
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spiderwort
Junior Member
@spiderwort
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Post by spiderwort on Sept 3, 2017 1:52:11 GMT
Another interesting thread from Spider. And another Ford example: THE SEARCHERS -- Texas Ranger Captain & Preacher Ward Bond lingers over a cup of coffee in the Edwards' kitchen before embarking on the posse's journey. He casually glances towards the adjoining bedroom. Cut to the wife lovingly folding brother-in-law Ethan's Johnny Reb cavalry cape. Cut back to Bond looking straight ahead, never to reveal the intimate moment he has just witnessed. Three quick shots that say so much. I just saw THE SEARCHERS last week, matt, so it's fresh in my mind. I remember the scene you describe vividly - so much story told without a single word. Same with BATouttaheck 's image. And then there are the great landscape vistas, in which the characters are arranged so that each element compliments the other - again without a lot, if any, cutting. Even the masterful opening shot with Wayne's sister-in-law standing on the porch, silhouetted, watching Wayne approaching in the distance is a work of art. Oh, I could go on for days. Enough for now. . .
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Post by mattgarth on Sept 3, 2017 2:12:27 GMT
On the contrary, Spider -- DO go on for days and days!
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Post by petrolino on Sept 3, 2017 2:15:27 GMT
On the contrary, Spider -- DO go on for days and days! I echo this sentiment wholeheartedly.
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spiderwort
Junior Member
@spiderwort
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Post by spiderwort on Sept 3, 2017 2:17:34 GMT
On the contrary, Spider -- DO go on for days and days! Thanks for the kind words, Matt. But I'm afraid I'm going to have to sign off for now. Maybe more tomorrow.
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Post by petrolino on Sept 3, 2017 2:19:50 GMT
On the contrary, Spider -- DO go on for days and days! Thanks for the kind words, Matt. But I'm afraid I'm going to have to sign off for now. Maybe more tomorrow. Hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
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spiderwort
Junior Member
@spiderwort
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Likes: 9,325
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Post by spiderwort on Sept 3, 2017 2:19:55 GMT
On the contrary, Spider -- DO go on for days and days! I echo this sentiment wholeheartedly. And thank you for the kind words. As I told Matt, I'm signing off now. So tomorrow we'll start anew.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 3, 2017 2:37:56 GMT
On the contrary, Spider -- DO go on for days and days! another vote for that ! spiderwort
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Post by petrolino on Sept 3, 2017 2:44:04 GMT
On the contrary, Spider -- DO go on for days and days! another vote for that ! spiderwort It's spider season here in U K as the spiders are seeking shelter (first day of autumn / fall was declared on 1st September) : UK Spider Identification at Metro
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 3, 2017 2:53:10 GMT
If John Ford had shown some closeups of flowers in gardens he might have included : Tradescantia andersoniana aka spiderwort
cool pictures petrolino
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Post by petrolino on Sept 3, 2017 3:03:43 GMT
If John Ford had shown some closeups of flowers in gardens he might have included : Tradescantia andersoniana aka spiderwort
cool pictures petrolino I think it's important to note Bat, that these spiders are our friends, collecting flies and chillin', but they can be (understandably) dangerous when provoked. The spiders here in U K are great but generally not as big as in other countries. They are beyond ancient, were here long before us.
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Post by telegonus on Sept 3, 2017 8:23:57 GMT
Mise-en-scene: "The arrangement of everything that appears in the framing – actors, lighting, décor, props, costume – is called mise-en-scène, a French term that means 'placing on stage.' The frame and camerawork are also considered part of the mise-en-scène of a movie." Ford was a master of static mise-en-scene. And his films were constantly filled not only with beautiful shots but with performances playing out fully without the interruption and manipulation of editing. Not to say he couldn't use a cut beautifully, but he never did it unless he knew it was necessary and meaningful. There's a great story about the wedding scene in How Green Was My Valley: In a wide master, Maureen O'Hara comes down the steps of the church with her new husband and gets into a horse drawn carriage in the foreground. Deep, deep in the background Walter Pidgeon (her true love, so small in the frame he's barely recognizable) steps out on the horizon to watch her drive away. Ford's DP asked if he wanted to shoot a close-up of Pidgeon, and Ford said, "Hell, no. If I shoot it, they'll use it." He loved those kind of magnificent shots loaded with layers of information and always had the courage to use them when they were appropriate to his vision. I love Ford's style - in the majority of his films - precisely because he had the courage and the vision to choreograph his scenes in the way he did. I love that he wasn't afraid to let his actors work in a beautiful frame without cutting their performances to bits. I love that he moved his actors into close-ups instead of cutting to them. I love that he used "deep focus" blocking before there was a name for it. I love that he moved the camera sparingly and to great effect, like the strong push in on John Wayne in a powerful moment in Stagecoach. His influence on American cinema has been profound. Orson Welles, when asked to name his three favorite directors, replied, "John Ford, John Ford, and John Ford." Welles' use of a static mise-en-scene was profoundly derivative of Ford. More "baroque," perhaps, but still one canvas after another that hearkened back to the Ford aesthetic. I wonder how many directors have the desire - or even know how - to design their shots like that today? _____________The art of mise-en-scene seems to be fading, as technology is replacing artfulness, attention to detail and creativity everywhere I look. On that cheery note, John Ford was a true master in this area, and thanks for bringing the subject up, Spiderwort. Also memorable: the entire Stagecoach sequence in the Lordsburg saloon, where Luke Plummer awaits the arrival of the Ringo Kid. To die for editing, The music perfectly matches the images on screen,--no, not in a "Mickey Mouse" way--emotionally, dramatically. I love the tune the pianist plays, the words spoken in Spanish to Plummer, the watchful bartender.Also great, in the next year's Grapes Of Wrath, the diner scene with the bargaining over (literally) nickels and dimes, the children wanting the striped candy, the wordless charity of the truck drivers as they drop coins, paying back what the kids (and the Joads generally) got, with interest.More mannered and yet masterful all the same: the announcement of the attack on Pearl Harbor at the bar in They Were Expendable, as the place grows silent, not immediately but in short time, as the men file out wordlessly, knowing that big trouble is ahead, especially given where they're stationed: the Philippines.
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Post by politicidal on Sept 3, 2017 15:32:21 GMT
There's a mastery of visual storytelling that is almost entirely gone now. Today, that scene would feature narration, a flashback, and twenty jump cuts.
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