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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 1, 2017 12:44:13 GMT
I also posted this on Reddit. The famous sermon by Johnathan Edwards in 1741, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God, is in a style that has not been heard much lately in religious services or on religious radio or television. Let's discuss that. One thing I've noticed on Reddit is that some people, even those who perhaps attend regular services, do not believe there would be any "eternal" punishment like hell. A reason given is that a person cannot in one lifetime do anything that deserves eternal punishment. Of course it is true that humans can easily do in a short time damage that cannot be undone forever and ever. There is no undoing a rape. There is no undoing a murder. Even capital punishment, however fair you think it might be, never returns the murder victim to life, ever. I'm not saying there necessarily must be an eternal hell, just that the arguments against one do not hold up well. Another question is how things are changing. What does the election of Trump mean in regard to the Christian left or right? Which of his ideas are actually "religious." Are others especially not? Which? Is another Great Awakening under way yet?
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 1, 2017 23:41:29 GMT
This topic is fairly active on Reddit. So what is with you? Do they know something you don't, or do you know something they don't? This topic on Reddit
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Post by awhina on Mar 2, 2017 3:36:30 GMT
I also posted this on Reddit. The famous sermon by Johnathan Edwards in 1741, Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God, is in a style that has not been heard much lately in religious services or on religious radio or television. Let's discuss that. One thing I've noticed on Reddit is that some people, even those who perhaps attend regular services, do not believe there would be any "eternal" punishment like hell. A reason given is that a person cannot in one lifetime do anything that deserves eternal punishment. Of course it is true that humans can easily do in a short time damage that cannot be undone forever and ever. There is no undoing a rape. There is no undoing a murder. Even capital punishment, however fair you think it might be, never returns the murder victim to life, ever. I'm not saying there necessarily must be an eternal hell, just that the arguments against one do not hold up well. Another question is how things are changing. What does the election of Trump mean in regard to the Christian left or right? Which of his ideas are actually "religious." Are others especially not? Which? Is another Great Awakening under way yet? Although I see that there is a good reason for Hell, I don't believe that Hell is eternal.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 2, 2017 23:37:31 GMT
Do you think puppies or kittens that die could go to hell?
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Post by awhina on Mar 3, 2017 0:17:30 GMT
Do you think puppies or kittens that die could go to hell? I really do not think so, because they have no moral responsibility.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Mar 3, 2017 1:30:41 GMT
An eternal Hell turns God into the biggest douche-bag ever.
Think about it.
If death is not the end, then any suffering here is not that big of a deal.. If you get killed you're not really dead because, according to some, God is going to judge you. Only your physical bag of meat will die, the car you drive around the Earth in, so to speak.
Think about eternity. We can't even wrap our brains around it because IT WILL NEVER END.
Next to eternity, even a long life of 100 years would be a tiny fraction of a second.
Think about a God who would punish someone FOREVER, for some bad things they did in 0.00000000001 seconds of 'Heaven Time'.
Giant douche-bag.
Hell is a concept invented by human beings for use in spiritual blackmail.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 3, 2017 11:08:07 GMT
An eternal Hell turns God into the biggest douche-bag ever. Think about it. If death is not the end, then any suffering here is not that big of a deal.. If you get killed you're not really dead because, according to some, God is going to judge you. Only your physical bag of meat will die, the car you drive around the Earth in, so to speak. Think about eternity. We can't even wrap our brains around it because IT WILL NEVER END. Next to eternity, even a long life of 100 years would be a tiny fraction of a second. Think about a God who would punish someone FOREVER, for some bad things they did in 0.00000000001 seconds of 'Heaven Time'. Giant douche-bag. Hell is a concept invented by human beings for use in spiritual blackmail. That is assuming there is anything that can be done about it. For example it does not appear to us mere mortals that two opposite things can be true at the same time and place. Maybe that is also impossible even for god. A type of question often asked in regard to the omnipotence of deity is whether it can make a rock so heavy that even the deity can't lift it. It does expose a sort of flaw in the concept of omnipotence, albeit with logical gymnastics. I watch way too much science fiction and much of it deals with time travel. It makes for interesting story lines despite the fact time travel doesn't really seem at all possible. Once something happens maybe even an "omnipotent" god can't go back in time and prevent it happening. Maybe there is such a thing as a cliff that once you fall off it there is no climbing back. Your expectation of "fairness" might be requiring something impossible even for a god.
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Post by thefleetsin on Mar 3, 2017 14:51:26 GMT
are christians pumping reddit for all it's worth? extrapolating fear mongering in the form of hells and vindictive spirit fathers seems the never ending gold mine.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Mar 3, 2017 18:27:15 GMT
An eternal Hell turns God into the biggest douche-bag ever. Think about it. If death is not the end, then any suffering here is not that big of a deal.. If you get killed you're not really dead because, according to some, God is going to judge you. Only your physical bag of meat will die, the car you drive around the Earth in, so to speak. Think about eternity. We can't even wrap our brains around it because IT WILL NEVER END. Next to eternity, even a long life of 100 years would be a tiny fraction of a second. Think about a God who would punish someone FOREVER, for some bad things they did in 0.00000000001 seconds of 'Heaven Time'. Giant douche-bag. Hell is a concept invented by human beings for use in spiritual blackmail. That is assuming there is anything that can be done about it. For example it does not appear to us mere mortals that two opposite things can be true at the same time and place. Maybe that is also impossible even for god. A type of question often asked in regard to the omnipotence of deity is whether it can make a rock so heavy that even the deity can't lift it. It does expose a sort of flaw in the concept of omnipotence, albeit with logical gymnastics. I watch way too much science fiction and much of it deals with time travel. It makes for interesting story lines despite the fact time travel doesn't really seem at all possible. Once something happens maybe even an "omnipotent" god can't go back in time and prevent it happening. Maybe there is such a thing as a cliff that once you fall off it there is no climbing back. Your expectation of "fairness" might be requiring something impossible even for a god. Thanks for the response Arlon. So, you find it hard to imagine a God that isn't a strict moral judge? Do you really think a God living in 'infinity' would ever think to go back and prevent anything from happening? If God wanted to go back in time and fix something, that would mean He was unsatisfied with things as they are. My idea of God doesn't include 'regret'.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 4, 2017 0:21:02 GMT
You're welcome. I can imagine all sorts of things, I just can't promise many of them. I suppose your guesses are as good as mine in that regard. My point was not about what a god would want to do, but what might be beyond even his ability.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 4, 2017 12:02:42 GMT
are christians pumping reddit for all it's worth? extrapolating fear mongering in the form of hells and vindictive spirit fathers seems the never ending gold mine. The ratio of atheists to Christians is about the same there as here. The ratio of people who have a clue to people who don't is about the same too. The difference between atheists and Christians is about the same too, zero.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 12:05:47 GMT
Every time I see this thread title, I think it would be a great name for an album.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 4, 2017 20:03:57 GMT
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