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Post by lenlenlen1 on Oct 23, 2017 20:36:26 GMT
I think the only difference is that in the OT, the story started like there didn't need to be much backstory on Leia/Vader/Luke and then audiences were surprised by a backstory they never saw coming.
Yeah. That.
I really can't wait to find out if the ST really is about " the character who survived the PT" as Lucas once put it. Well IF that's the case then Snoke could be Darth Plagueis, Sifo Dyas, or even Palpatine himself. These are all theories with varying degrees of possibility.
I think Snoke looks too alien to be human, so no on Palpatine.
We never saw Sifo Dyas, so maybe.
And the one I like the best is Darth Plagueis, but if we're to believe the EU Plaguis is from a different race than what Snoke looks like, so... Unless they change it, seeing as how the EU is tenuous at best now.
I'd love it if Snoke was Plagueis, and all those scars are from surviving what Palpatine did to him. So he went into hiding to recuperate and came back as leader of the First Order. That would tie things in nicely. Also the idea that he could use midichlorians to create life and to stop himself and others from dying... that also ties in. Maybe Rey is another virgin birth created by Plagueis, like Anakin was?
But my guess is that he's just a new character.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 21:23:39 GMT
I really can't wait to find out if the ST really is about " the character who survived the PT" as Lucas once put it. Well IF that's the case then Snoke could be Darth Plagueis, Sifo Dyas, or even Palpatine himself. These are all theories with varying degrees of possibility.
I think Snoke looks too alien to be human, so no on Palpatine.
We never saw Sifo Dyas, so maybe.
And the one I like the best is Darth Plagueis, but if we're to believe the EU Plaguis is from a different race than what Snoke looks like, so... Unless they change it, seeing as how the EU is tenuous at best now.
I'd love it if Snoke was Plagueis, and all those scars are from surviving what Palpatine did to him. So he went into hiding to recuperate and came back as leader of the First Order. That would tie things in nicely. Also the idea that he could use midichlorians to create life and to stop himself and others from dying... that also ties in. Maybe Rey is another virgin birth created by Plagueis, like Anakin was?
But my guess is that he's just a new character.
We did see Sifo in the Clone Wars cartoon saga and he's human. The idea that Snoke is Plagueis inherently makes me ecstatic, but what really blows my mind is how it can retroactively change how we view the PT and the OT. I've mentioned my theories before about the blue Force energy released up the shaft and then back down the shaft when the Emperor is murdered in ROTJ, about what Yoda may have sensed within Palpatine during their duel and why it might further explain why Yoda got spooked, about how I hear a new, distinct voice coming through Palpatine's mouth in ROTS, not to mention countless other character motivations (especially Jabba since Jabba owed Plagueis all kinds of favors per Legends) within OT scenes that could take on additional depth. And, of course, to bring it back full circle to the guy who created Anakin, thus, the Skywalker lineage, the guy who planned the Clone Wars, the guy who planned to make Palpatine emperor, the guy who planned to turn Dooku to the dark side, the guy who got rid of the Rule of Two and whose hand was behind a host of other major themes from the PT/OT, it makes so much sense. Beyond that, the idea that Lucas might have planned this since ROTJ (or sooner) and the idea that other easter eggs were left in the PT (like the theory that there is a hidden animation of Plagueis during the opera scene in ROTS that looks eerily similar to Snoke...have you seen that one?) is especially exciting for me as a fan. No one has ever made me wait almost four decades for a pay-off this big before.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Oct 24, 2017 17:33:53 GMT
Well IF that's the case then Snoke could be Darth Plagueis, Sifo Dyas, or even Palpatine himself. These are all theories with varying degrees of possibility.
I think Snoke looks too alien to be human, so no on Palpatine.
We never saw Sifo Dyas, so maybe.
And the one I like the best is Darth Plagueis, but if we're to believe the EU Plaguis is from a different race than what Snoke looks like, so... Unless they change it, seeing as how the EU is tenuous at best now.
I'd love it if Snoke was Plagueis, and all those scars are from surviving what Palpatine did to him. So he went into hiding to recuperate and came back as leader of the First Order. That would tie things in nicely. Also the idea that he could use midichlorians to create life and to stop himself and others from dying... that also ties in. Maybe Rey is another virgin birth created by Plagueis, like Anakin was?
But my guess is that he's just a new character.
We did see Sifo in the Clone Wars cartoon saga and he's human. The idea that Snoke is Plagueis inherently makes me ecstatic, but what really blows my mind is how it can retroactively change how we view the PT and the OT. I've mentioned my theories before about the blue Force energy released up the shaft and then back down the shaft when the Emperor is murdered in ROTJ, about what Yoda may have sensed within Palpatine during their duel and why it might further explain why Yoda got spooked, about how I hear a new, distinct voice coming through Palpatine's mouth in ROTS, not to mention countless other character motivations (especially Jabba since Jabba owed Plagueis all kinds of favors per Legends) within OT scenes that could take on additional depth. And, of course, to bring it back full circle to the guy who created Anakin, thus, the Skywalker lineage, the guy who planned the Clone Wars, the guy who planned to make Palpatine emperor, the guy who planned to turn Dooku to the dark side, the guy who got rid of the Rule of Two and whose hand was behind a host of other major themes from the PT/OT, it makes so much sense. Beyond that, the idea that Lucas might have planned this since ROTJ (or sooner) and the idea that other easter eggs were left in the PT (like the theory that there is a hidden animation of Plagueis during the opera scene in ROTS that looks eerily similar to Snoke...have you seen that one?) is especially exciting for me as a fan. No one has ever made me wait almost four decades for a pay-off this big before. Okay well scratch Sifo Dyas then. Clone Wars is canon, as much as some people may not want it to be.
I still like the idea of Darth Plagueis though. That could be Snokes "sith" name, while Snoke could be his regular name like Palpatine was to Sidious.
The only problem with that theory is why did he take so long to make his presence known; The entire lifetimes of both Anakin and Luke? Well, I like to think that Sidious tried to kill him in his sleep and whatever Sidious did to him hurt him so bad he had to go into hiding or into a force sleep(?) to recuperate. And by the time he was better the events we've seen play out were over so he had to re-start with the First Order. I'd like to see that movie too!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 18:54:14 GMT
I still like the idea of Darth Plagueis though. That could be Snokes "sith" name, while Snoke could be his regular name like Palpatine was to Sidious.
The only problem with that theory is why did he take so long to make his presence known; The entire lifetimes of both Anakin and Luke? Well, I like to think that Sidious tried to kill him in his sleep and whatever Sidious did to him hurt him so bad he had to go into hiding or into a force sleep(?) to recuperate. And by the time he was better the events we've seen play out were over so he had to re-start with the First Order. I'd like to see that movie too!
This would be the reasoning: Plagueis had devleoped three totally new ways to use the Force: a.) complete healing/regeneration b.) life creation, c.) murder via direct midi-chlorian manipulation (this is not unlike how Marvel eventually granted Magneto the power to manipulate the iron in his enemy's bloodstream. Sure, Plagueis wanted to rule the galaxy and he wanted to fulfill the Sith Plan/kill the Jedi, etc. But what he really wanted was immortality. So he left everything else up to Palpatine and the result was that Palpatine ended up with all the known galactic legal authority and Plagueis - who was mostly staying in the shadows - was a ghost at best, pariah at worst in his life as Hego Damask (in terms of galactic power). Palpatine held all the cards. Meanwhile, Plagueis always planned to keep his original body and continuously heal himself until the end of time. Except he found out that every time he killed and resurrected his test subjects, they lost just a pinch of life. After dozens of attempts, the test subjects eventually died. And then (not only did he suffer one traumatizing assassination attempt, but) Palpatine tried to assassinate him. This left his body a horrible mess. The idea of keeping his original body alive was out, it seems. There was one other path toward immortality, however, and though Plagueis was loathe to tread it, it was his last option. He had mastered essence transference. Everything I just said was part of several SW Legends works of fiction. So back in Canon land, building on that Legends foundation, Plagueis transferred his essence somewhere into something or someone. He is currently in a weakened state and needs time to regenerate what was left of his body. Knowing that he would be weak when he first re-materialized and also knowing that Palpatine had achieved galactic authority, he knew better than to come back. Besides, Palpatine had actually succeeded in creating an Empire and defeating the Jedi, so Plagueis was willing to wait it out and see how Palpatine did. When Palpatine failed and Vader died, there was no reason to wait it out anymore. And if you follow the Canon books, whoever Snoke was hit the scene within at least a year of ROTJ's events, if not immediately. Pretty fab timing for someone "totally new," don't you think?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Oct 24, 2017 19:24:28 GMT
I still like the idea of Darth Plagueis though. That could be Snokes "sith" name, while Snoke could be his regular name like Palpatine was to Sidious.
The only problem with that theory is why did he take so long to make his presence known; The entire lifetimes of both Anakin and Luke? Well, I like to think that Sidious tried to kill him in his sleep and whatever Sidious did to him hurt him so bad he had to go into hiding or into a force sleep(?) to recuperate. And by the time he was better the events we've seen play out were over so he had to re-start with the First Order. I'd like to see that movie too!
This would be the reasoning: Plagueis had devleoped three totally new ways to use the Force: a.) complete healing/regeneration b.) life creation, c.) murder via direct midi-chlorian manipulation (this is not unlike how Marvel eventually granted Magneto the power to manipulate the iron in his enemy's bloodstream. Sure, Plagueis wanted to rule the galaxy and he wanted to fulfill the Sith Plan/kill the Jedi, etc. But what he really wanted was immortality. So he left everything else up to Palpatine and the result was that Palpatine ended up with all the known galactic legal authority and Plagueis - who was mostly staying in the shadows - was a ghost at best, pariah at worst in his life as Hego Damask (in terms of galactic power). Palpatine held all the cards. Meanwhile, Plagueis always planned to keep his original body and continuously heal himself until the end of time. Except he found out that every time he killed and resurrected his test subjects, they lost just a pinch of life. After dozens of attempts, the test subjects eventually died. And then (not only did he suffer one traumatizing assassination attempt, but) Palpatine tried to assassinate him. This left his body a horrible mess. The idea of keeping his original body alive was out, it seems. There was one other path toward immortality, however, and though Plagueis was loathe to tread it, it was his last option. He had mastered essence transference. Everything I just said was part of several SW Legends works of fiction. So back in Canon land, building on that Legends foundation, Plagueis transferred his essence somewhere into something or someone. He is currently in a weakened state and needs time to regenerate what was left of his body. Knowing that he would be weak when he first re-materialized and also knowing that Palpatine had achieved galactic authority, he knew better than to come back. Besides, Palpatine had actually succeeded in creating an Empire and defeating the Jedi, so Plagueis was willing to wait it out and see how Palpatine did. When Palpatine failed and Vader died, there was no reason to wait it out anymore. And if you follow the Canon books, whoever Snoke was hit the scene within at least a year of ROTJ's events, if not immediately. Pretty fab timing for someone "totally new," don't you think? 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. The point being... its Darth Plageuis and theres a reason for why he didn't re-appear for so long. I like it. But the odds are greater that Snoke is just a new character.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 19:55:39 GMT
This would be the reasoning: Plagueis had devleoped three totally new ways to use the Force: a.) complete healing/regeneration b.) life creation, c.) murder via direct midi-chlorian manipulation (this is not unlike how Marvel eventually granted Magneto the power to manipulate the iron in his enemy's bloodstream. Sure, Plagueis wanted to rule the galaxy and he wanted to fulfill the Sith Plan/kill the Jedi, etc. But what he really wanted was immortality. So he left everything else up to Palpatine and the result was that Palpatine ended up with all the known galactic legal authority and Plagueis - who was mostly staying in the shadows - was a ghost at best, pariah at worst in his life as Hego Damask (in terms of galactic power). Palpatine held all the cards. Meanwhile, Plagueis always planned to keep his original body and continuously heal himself until the end of time. Except he found out that every time he killed and resurrected his test subjects, they lost just a pinch of life. After dozens of attempts, the test subjects eventually died. And then (not only did he suffer one traumatizing assassination attempt, but) Palpatine tried to assassinate him. This left his body a horrible mess. The idea of keeping his original body alive was out, it seems. There was one other path toward immortality, however, and though Plagueis was loathe to tread it, it was his last option. He had mastered essence transference. Everything I just said was part of several SW Legends works of fiction. So back in Canon land, building on that Legends foundation, Plagueis transferred his essence somewhere into something or someone. He is currently in a weakened state and needs time to regenerate what was left of his body. Knowing that he would be weak when he first re-materialized and also knowing that Palpatine had achieved galactic authority, he knew better than to come back. Besides, Palpatine had actually succeeded in creating an Empire and defeating the Jedi, so Plagueis was willing to wait it out and see how Palpatine did. When Palpatine failed and Vader died, there was no reason to wait it out anymore. And if you follow the Canon books, whoever Snoke was hit the scene within at least a year of ROTJ's events, if not immediately. Pretty fab timing for someone "totally new," don't you think? 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. The point being... its Darth Plageuis and theres a reason for why he didn't re-appear for so long. I like it. But the odds are greater that Snoke is just a new character. Just keep in mind that Kylo was conceived on the moon of Endor, within a week of the Emperor's (not publicly known) death. Per canon novels, Snoke was messing with Kylo from the time he was born, possibly from the time he was in the womb. The longshot is actually Snoke being a new character. It would take someone coming out of nowhere and usurping power of the Empire's remnants fast enough and complete enough to gain full access to the most classified of documents to even know how Palpatine/Vader died, that the Skywalker lineage was destined for greatness, etc...all within nine months tops....one week on the short end. That would be unlikely. Besides, the Aftermath series defines in explicit detail who took over the Empire after ROTJ and it wasn't Snoke. It was Gallius Rax and he's both a human and dead , so definitely not Snoke. I'm not saying I'm absolutely 100% correct, but when you look at the new canon facts, there is just no way that a new character emerged. Snoke absolutely has to be a character from the past.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 6:45:43 GMT
I have thought about it and my thoughts have led me to this conclusion... NONSENSE! That thing is lost in the atmosphere of Bespin. Like the lightsaber?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Oct 25, 2017 14:33:31 GMT
I have thought about it and my thoughts have led me to this conclusion... NONSENSE! That thing is lost in the atmosphere of Bespin. Like the lightsaber? Read the previous posts. We already dealt with that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2017 18:09:51 GMT
Read the previous posts. We already dealt with that. No deal.
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Post by leesilm on Oct 27, 2017 1:10:34 GMT
I have thought about it and my thoughts have led me to this conclusion... NONSENSE! That thing is lost in the atmosphere of Bespin. Buuut....they found the light saber, so why not the hand? His hand wouldn't be metallic, so perhaps the lightsaber was caught in some magnetic contraption meant to sort the trash? While the hand continued out with the rest of the rubbish? Or, maybe the hand got hung up either due to just being all gross with blood/burned flesh causing it to get stuck, while the lightsaber kept rolling downhill?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 3:38:24 GMT
Buuut....they found the light saber, so why not the hand? His hand wouldn't be metallic, so perhaps the lightsaber was caught in some magnetic contraption meant to sort the trash? While the hand continued out with the rest of the rubbish? Or, maybe the hand got hung up either due to just being all gross with blood/burned flesh causing it to get stuck, while the lightsaber kept rolling downhill? Interesting ideas, which kind of go back to the explanation I find most plausible: that whole facility was set up with sensors that sorted things and, as the film clearly shows us, things that seem to be falling into an abyss and that seem to be lost forever are actually becoming compartmentalized and then sorted.
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