Post by Nora on Oct 15, 2017 20:40:16 GMT
TL:DR version: try and think of things you can do as an individual to improve the quality of life for all of us, and realize some problems are bigger than one screwed up Harvey, they are systemic and should be treated as such, inseat of pointing finger at one guy while bathing in hypocrisy.
Annoyingly long version
as the decent human being I see myself as, of course I don't condone criminal behavior, forceful behavior or unwanted advances especially coming from a position of such power. Let me say this loud and clear: I am against it and think its despicable.
But at the same time, I do find within myself some glimpse of "understanding" as for why it has been happening so much and for so long. And that is simply because it was "accepted" (overlooked or outright taken as "normal") for so long BY SO MANY within the industry. Harvey Weinstein is not The One horrible creep we all now have to judge. He is one of surely HUNDREDS of people just like that if not worse, within the very same industry. And it has been like that for decades and decades.
While the fact that something has been going on for a long time and was condoned, overlooked or even seen as "normal" certainly does not mean it was "ok". But it does provide certain context. This guys has been in the industry for almost 40 years. Certainly observing others act the same way. Again, that is not a justification for one should join in.
I guess what I dont like about this case is the (perhaps only perceived) hypocrisy of people going like "oh now, HOW HORRIBLE, this DISGUSTING individual, HOW COULD HE". Instead of "Oh shit, we have all allowed this industry to A) get rotten, B) intensify the rottenness , C) keep it rotten for a very long time, so now we as a community have to accept this is a systemic problem."
its like corruption ina highly corrupted country. Sure, the guy that gets caught having taken/offered very many bribes is the bad guy right then. But he should not be the focus of the attention. The country that allowed itself to be run by systemically bribing subjects should. As a whole.
I in no way intend to "victimize" people that reported it then or didn't report it then and only speak now. I in no way "blame" those individuals for whatever choices they made. But they were/are part of a business that offered you several choices: A) stay in it silently, and by that you accept this is the (unfortunate) norm, B) leave it for an industry where there is less of this disgusting behavior, or C) try and do something about it, no matter how small or big that step/gesture is.
I have also been sexually harassed. I think almost every woman has, at some point in her life. I remember the first time this happened to me, it was such an unknown feeling that I caught myself thinking "he must have done it on accident (grabbed my private parts), god forbid I embarrass him by standing up to him or for myself". I was 15 then. The second time this happened was later in my life, when I was hassled in a dance club. Guy asked me to dance, I declined, quite politely I believe, he put his hand on my ass and asked again, I again declined - this time also removed his hand from my body actively and turned away from him." at this point he started yelling all sorts of insults my way. I still remember the feeling of wanting to turn back and yell something nasty back at him. But I chose what I perceive as the "high road" and just ignored him. Since he continued to yell insulting and pervy stuff my way, it ended with the bartender LITERALLY jumping across the bar, grab this guy and drag him outside of the club together with the bounces. So this time the result was better, but it still was not my doing. The third (our of the significant ones) was just a few weeks ago. I was walking down the street (no make up, not wearing anything provocative) when a man walked by and said directly to my face how much he would like for me to show him my vagina and how much it would please him. He used a slightly different rhetoric, as you can imagine. It felt so incredibly gross and vulgar and offensive. And I decided this time I WILL do something about it myself. but the decision took me a second or two to make (as I was stunned by the intensity of his words) while he kept moving (as if he had just said "hello have a good day miss" just seconds before) and when I had made my decision he was already on the other side of the road, with some other dudes and I caught myself feeling hesitant to do anything. So I myself have failed many times. But I am set on not repeating this mistake in the future. Because it is up to all of us, to be brave and stand up for ourselves, even if it means taking a greater risk.
Now I wish this was a perfect world (which in my case would include for example cinemas on every corner, with films always followed by QnAs with the director and cast, and also guys that like me "just the way I am" - yeah, that silly ridiculous line has sure fucked up many relationship), I wouldn't want to see any such behavior (done by men or women, I am aware it goes both ways). But in this real world we live in, it is up to us, and that is ALL of us, including the victims, potential victims, innocent bystanders, or heroically brave bartenders, to do "something". I dont want to define for anyone what that "something" is. but its up to all of use.
Harvey has probably committed some crimes and surely some despicable acts. But the focus should soon shift on the INDUSTRY, and depart from Harvey and let us all get back to contributing to society. And watching another segment on how a pervy guys life is being ruined (however it may be pleasurable to see, mostly for the victims) is not an activity that serves that.
And I really wish people would stop comparing Harvey to Woody Allen and Roman Polanski. Those are (on many levels) incomparable situations (from what we know).
And we should focus a LOT on education of children, to make sure they learn critical thinking, bravery, ethics and self-worth, eventually allowing them making smarter choices (not grope people) and empowering themselves (in case they become a victim).
As much as I despise Trump and cant be possibly more embarrassed to hear and see what he does on daily bases, there was a moment when all the Trump Bashing has had one impact: I started to feel "sorry for him" occasionally. For someone I really don't respect, dislike, or support. And now a similar thing is happening to me with the Weinstein case.
Fuck this post is long. Sorry. I guess what gets me is the unbelievable level of hypocrisy. People saying "oh gosh, I cant believe he has done this". Jesuf effficng christ. Dont tell me you didnt know THIS was for a LONG time "standard and completely tolerated behavior". Dont make it into a situation that has never happened before and you had no idea it is very likely happening ALL OVER the industry you work for.
What do you think about the case and its meaning overall for the industry and society?
Annoyingly long version
as the decent human being I see myself as, of course I don't condone criminal behavior, forceful behavior or unwanted advances especially coming from a position of such power. Let me say this loud and clear: I am against it and think its despicable.
But at the same time, I do find within myself some glimpse of "understanding" as for why it has been happening so much and for so long. And that is simply because it was "accepted" (overlooked or outright taken as "normal") for so long BY SO MANY within the industry. Harvey Weinstein is not The One horrible creep we all now have to judge. He is one of surely HUNDREDS of people just like that if not worse, within the very same industry. And it has been like that for decades and decades.
While the fact that something has been going on for a long time and was condoned, overlooked or even seen as "normal" certainly does not mean it was "ok". But it does provide certain context. This guys has been in the industry for almost 40 years. Certainly observing others act the same way. Again, that is not a justification for one should join in.
I guess what I dont like about this case is the (perhaps only perceived) hypocrisy of people going like "oh now, HOW HORRIBLE, this DISGUSTING individual, HOW COULD HE". Instead of "Oh shit, we have all allowed this industry to A) get rotten, B) intensify the rottenness , C) keep it rotten for a very long time, so now we as a community have to accept this is a systemic problem."
its like corruption ina highly corrupted country. Sure, the guy that gets caught having taken/offered very many bribes is the bad guy right then. But he should not be the focus of the attention. The country that allowed itself to be run by systemically bribing subjects should. As a whole.
I in no way intend to "victimize" people that reported it then or didn't report it then and only speak now. I in no way "blame" those individuals for whatever choices they made. But they were/are part of a business that offered you several choices: A) stay in it silently, and by that you accept this is the (unfortunate) norm, B) leave it for an industry where there is less of this disgusting behavior, or C) try and do something about it, no matter how small or big that step/gesture is.
I have also been sexually harassed. I think almost every woman has, at some point in her life. I remember the first time this happened to me, it was such an unknown feeling that I caught myself thinking "he must have done it on accident (grabbed my private parts), god forbid I embarrass him by standing up to him or for myself". I was 15 then. The second time this happened was later in my life, when I was hassled in a dance club. Guy asked me to dance, I declined, quite politely I believe, he put his hand on my ass and asked again, I again declined - this time also removed his hand from my body actively and turned away from him." at this point he started yelling all sorts of insults my way. I still remember the feeling of wanting to turn back and yell something nasty back at him. But I chose what I perceive as the "high road" and just ignored him. Since he continued to yell insulting and pervy stuff my way, it ended with the bartender LITERALLY jumping across the bar, grab this guy and drag him outside of the club together with the bounces. So this time the result was better, but it still was not my doing. The third (our of the significant ones) was just a few weeks ago. I was walking down the street (no make up, not wearing anything provocative) when a man walked by and said directly to my face how much he would like for me to show him my vagina and how much it would please him. He used a slightly different rhetoric, as you can imagine. It felt so incredibly gross and vulgar and offensive. And I decided this time I WILL do something about it myself. but the decision took me a second or two to make (as I was stunned by the intensity of his words) while he kept moving (as if he had just said "hello have a good day miss" just seconds before) and when I had made my decision he was already on the other side of the road, with some other dudes and I caught myself feeling hesitant to do anything. So I myself have failed many times. But I am set on not repeating this mistake in the future. Because it is up to all of us, to be brave and stand up for ourselves, even if it means taking a greater risk.
Now I wish this was a perfect world (which in my case would include for example cinemas on every corner, with films always followed by QnAs with the director and cast, and also guys that like me "just the way I am" - yeah, that silly ridiculous line has sure fucked up many relationship), I wouldn't want to see any such behavior (done by men or women, I am aware it goes both ways). But in this real world we live in, it is up to us, and that is ALL of us, including the victims, potential victims, innocent bystanders, or heroically brave bartenders, to do "something". I dont want to define for anyone what that "something" is. but its up to all of use.
Harvey has probably committed some crimes and surely some despicable acts. But the focus should soon shift on the INDUSTRY, and depart from Harvey and let us all get back to contributing to society. And watching another segment on how a pervy guys life is being ruined (however it may be pleasurable to see, mostly for the victims) is not an activity that serves that.
And I really wish people would stop comparing Harvey to Woody Allen and Roman Polanski. Those are (on many levels) incomparable situations (from what we know).
And we should focus a LOT on education of children, to make sure they learn critical thinking, bravery, ethics and self-worth, eventually allowing them making smarter choices (not grope people) and empowering themselves (in case they become a victim).
As much as I despise Trump and cant be possibly more embarrassed to hear and see what he does on daily bases, there was a moment when all the Trump Bashing has had one impact: I started to feel "sorry for him" occasionally. For someone I really don't respect, dislike, or support. And now a similar thing is happening to me with the Weinstein case.
Fuck this post is long. Sorry. I guess what gets me is the unbelievable level of hypocrisy. People saying "oh gosh, I cant believe he has done this". Jesuf effficng christ. Dont tell me you didnt know THIS was for a LONG time "standard and completely tolerated behavior". Dont make it into a situation that has never happened before and you had no idea it is very likely happening ALL OVER the industry you work for.
What do you think about the case and its meaning overall for the industry and society?
.
and he doesnt know why.
