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Post by runie on Nov 3, 2017 19:52:39 GMT
winning is about perspective - and there are many ways to win - material trophies are just one of many wins. i can imagine alderweireld and erikson thinking we are not winning trophies at totenham - we could earn twice the money - but now with the effect of a sine that understands each other and harry kane's leadership and pochs amazing personality and perspective that they are re evaluating what it is to win. being part of a new way of playing, being part of a new big club and not through a rich dictator, even if they are just at the start they could be considered more of a win than a trophy- if tottenham keep improving - these players stay for there carrer and then other players move on with teh same perspective they are the bricks in the castle - they are part of it.
i have had a dig at arsenal today - but they won even when they lost - because i loved the way they played. so they won my viewership. arsernal did a lot of great things. as well as not understand happiness of players, personal achievements - the levels in which they understand is a step up and a win.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 8:25:06 GMT
Goodness me Runie, if these eulogies of Spurs carry on much longer you're gonna have to pass me a sick bucket.  Yes Spurs are doing well at the moment, but they also look like perennial runners-up. The Jimmy White of football. Play some nice football, but always someone better than them. Always bottling it when they even remotely threaten to reach the summit of the mountain. For me, when I was a kid, Spurs were one of the big 5 clubs, along with Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal & Everton. Okay, Spurs probably haven't got many fans in the north but they have a lot of fans all over the south, which makes them a big club. But what have they won since their double winning season almost 60 years ago? No league titles, and the occasional cup competition. In fact we're almost approaching 30 years since they last won the FA Cup. So they are perhaps the biggest underachievers in English football. Especially in my life time. I did enjoy though, their two games against Madrid, especially when they were playing their olé football at the end (is that how you spell "olé"?), not many teams will humiliate Madrid like that. And their game against Chelsea was good to watch, even though they lost they played pretty well. But in all honesty, I've seen better and more exciting teams, and not all their games have been that great this season. But for Tottenham I have to give them a 10/10 for the performance at home To Real Madrid. But you don't want to be one of those clubs that sells the Tottenham-Madrid Blu-Ray in the club shop, with that being the pinnacle of your success. They need to start getting some trophies in the cabinet. Only then will they be "winning". Even an FA Cup would be a start (although they need to start doing better than that). The trouble is though, the Manchester clubs look like they are getting their act back together, so they may have missed the boat. The question now, is do they rise to the challenge, or do they use it as an excuse for more failure? They don't even necessarily have to be dominant, and no one really expects them to be, but they do need to win things. I mean even Liverpool have been winning trophies in Europe and at home during one of their worst 20 year spells. Even Man United have still been winning trophies in the last couple of years when they have been almost as weak as I've seen them (since the late 80s early 90s). Even Arsenal have been piling up the FA Cups in the last 4 years. So it isn't like it is impossible. But Tottenham... still nothing. |
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Post by runie on Nov 4, 2017 10:13:55 GMT
..Like i said i have redefined what winning means.
will palace win if they stay up?
of course they have... its all we can do at this present time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 10:38:22 GMT
Yes but Tottenham aren't some minnow club, they are one of the biggest clubs in the country, always have been. I would say if you walked into almost any pub in the south of England, and Tottenham are playing on TV, you will always find at least a few Spurs fans in there watching the match. There is only really Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal and maybe Chelsea now (I'm not sure) that you could say that about. So they are a big club. So Tottenham fans shouldn't be redefining what 'winning' means, they should be redefining what Tottenham means. They shouldn't be this plucky club that never wins anything. PS I'm not writing Palace off yet, they've got some good fixtures in December, if they can get to about 15-18 points by the end of the festive period, have a decent or better 2nd half of the season, they will survive. I actually don't even think they've been as bad as people say, they've played well but been unlucky in some games. A setback getting thrashed against Newcastle, they've gotta stop shipping the goals, but I'm still rooting for you Runie!  |
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Post by runie on Nov 4, 2017 11:05:29 GMT
My redefining of winning means -in this case is not to just be admired from a far, to be creating english players,(home grown talent) to be fighting as hard as other teams yet on less money, to be playing as a unit, to be playing a good style, to playing football for pure enjoyment over just it being a job, the plyaers have all stopped whining about money, they are seeing football differently - how it should be.. they are seeing a future and about being a part of a club that can be one of the best in the world winning stuff all the time..
if this stays on course they will win material things - and if they do it in this particular way those wins will be even more important!
its about howyou win sometimes.
PSG are not a good example of the state of football - nor man cit, but i have to admit i love the way man city plays and what pep is doing forsterling and jones.
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Post by runie on Nov 4, 2017 11:08:48 GMT
stones not jones
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 11:21:07 GMT
My redefining of winning means -in this case is not to just be admired from a far, to be creating english players,(home grown talent) to be fighting as hard as other teams yet on less money, to be playing as a unit, to be playing a good style, to playing football for pure enjoyment over just it being a job, the plyaers have all stopped whining about money, they are seeing football differently - how it should be.. they are seeing a future and about being a part of a club that can be one of the best in the world winning stuff all the time.. if this stays on course they will win material things - and if they do it in this particular way those wins will be even more important! its about howyou win sometimes. PSG are not a good example of the state of football - nor man cit, but i have to admit i love the way man city plays and what pep is doing forsterling and jones. Well we'll see if they are still all there in a few years time. Dele Alli certainly doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who is going to have unbridled loyalty to his club. And you mentioned the other day that you thought he was on only £50k/week. If that's true, sooner or later you are gonna start looking around at what everyone else is earning and start feeling more than a little resentful that you are getting shafted by your own club. Daniel Levy is getting away with murder.  But really, they're gonna have to start winning things, players only get one short career so you can't blame them for wanting to be ambitious and move on to somewhere better so that they can both win things and accumulate as much dosh as they can. If Spurs start winning things, that's half the battle, that's why they have to win, and revenues for PL clubs are only going up for the foreseeable future. |
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Post by dougb on Nov 4, 2017 11:32:23 GMT
..Like i said i have redefined what winning means. will palace win if they stay up? of course they have... its all we can do at this present time. You're aiming too high. Go for an away goal at the moment. |
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Post by runie on Nov 4, 2017 11:48:04 GMT
My redefining of winning means -in this case is not to just be admired from a far, to be creating english players,(home grown talent) to be fighting as hard as other teams yet on less money, to be playing as a unit, to be playing a good style, to playing football for pure enjoyment over just it being a job, the plyaers have all stopped whining about money, they are seeing football differently - how it should be.. they are seeing a future and about being a part of a club that can be one of the best in the world winning stuff all the time.. if this stays on course they will win material things - and if they do it in this particular way those wins will be even more important! its about howyou win sometimes. PSG are not a good example of the state of football - nor man cit, but i have to admit i love the way man city plays and what pep is doing forsterling and jones. Well we'll see if they are still all there in a few years time. Dele Alli certainly doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who is going to have unbridled loyalty to his club. And you mentioned the other day that you thought he was on only £50k/week. If that's true, sooner or later you are gonna start looking around at what everyone else is earning and start feeling more than a little resentful that you are getting shafted by your own club. Daniel Levy is getting away with murder. But really, they're gonna have to start winning things, players only get one short career so you can't blame them for wanting to be ambitious and move on to somewhere better so that they can both win things and accumulate as much dosh as they can. If Spurs start winning things, that's half the battle, that's why they have to win, and revenues for PL clubs are only going up for the foreseeable future. there are many things levy can do. he will be able to get an extra 100m a year with getting rid of white heart lanes name(probably fed ex stadium ) - sad but money tottenham have to stick to ffp - and all though building a stadium is an asset/balance sheet item not p&l - it hinders cash flow . totenham do not have huge revenue - what is it at present 200m\9or 250 with cl inclusion which is never guaranteed) or something - they are not a global brand yet.(bayern, man u,man city, psg,real barca - are 550 plus revenue teams.. Areseranl is a 400m team as is liverpool- dortmound are a 400m rev team! next year - new stadium - more gate reciepts, more cl money, huge sponsership naming right stadium deal, keeping the players that are now becoming global stars (especially kane and alli as they have the marketing potential) will game them more fans, more merch sales, mch larger club sponsorship deals and shirt deals. so they will be able too pay the wages - at present they only break even.. so there is a reason to levys pay structure - however he is prudent - he could have utilsed the new ffp regulation that allows clubs that take on a new investment opportunity like selling the club - gets to submit accounts 3 years late to ffp- so they can buy players and more wages early as long as they make the money back in the long term.. levy is too prudent for that so he will wait untill the money is rolling in before he spends it i garrantee levy is not stupid - the players will know behind the seens they will be paid more next year. he needs to keep them all and imagine they buy a a marque signing or two.. the team will really pick up. tottenham's global and home status and la liga status has changed - they are not being seen as a feeder club - they are now being seen as rivals.. and players will want to go there. Now this could cause the issue of tottenham buying over bringing youth - but as long as levy and poch stays (one prudent that wants value on everything including the academy - and pochs desire to respect the game and club as a whole and not take easy options) they can maintain a balance. dele alli is on 50k its not what i think its true a big reason why zaha didn't push to go to tottenham is because tot had a ceiling of 100k only kane is on that)- but he is on110k at palace, so zaha could only have been on about 40k in the heirachy - like he is gonna drop 70k a week!.. - but like i said things will change. I think your problem is that you see tot as a huge club but there revenue is tiny in comparison to others. (actually i got the figure of the club accounts and that there top revenue ever was last year at 209m- this is a third of united dude!!) that is very low to the teams they compete against - only athletico are similar. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 12:46:33 GMT
I doubt he is stupid, but he has been flogging Spurs best players for years, and will continue to do so if the money is right, and often selling them late in the window so they can't be replaced. Yet the way Spurs fans talk about him I'd be surprised if some of them don't have Daniel Levy posters up on their bedroom walls. The party line from Spurs fans for years has been "well at least he is a great businessman". Not saying that view is necessarily wrong but I think he has been getting away with murder. Revenue is low, instinctively I feel that should be higher for a club like Spurs, but even still, according to Spurs 2016 P&L they made £33m net profit, which is pretty healthy, and I think if I was Dele Alli or his agent I'd want a bit more.
Also, my uncertainty with Alli's wages was simply because I'm doubtful Spurs would have ever released a full breakdown of their players wages, so you're really left having to make educated guesses, unless you have some a good source? Not saying you are wrong mind you. I'm prepared to take your word for it, so don't worry, I'm not asking you to root around trying to find it.
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Post by runie on Nov 4, 2017 16:21:16 GMT
well they dont have to tell us. but levy isnt the type to lie in business- and alli has changed his agent to a 'super agent'
but the reality is all though in the past evy has sold his players - this is now a different time. good players all over the pitch - CL's on the spin, massive exposure uk/europe and worldwide increase and the fact that he would never have built a new stadium to then sell his best players.. he has to make money out of it, he is now gonna be able to get up with the big guys - the revenue increase can double in 2 years up with the arsenal, liverpools and chelseas. not up to man u's off course. Totenham for revenue is a very good team - the lowest top 6 club by double and triple the top..
how can he pay those players more with the revenue they make?
so its just educated belief ..levy can not pay more- he doesnt have more to pay them at present.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 16:31:58 GMT
well they dont have to tell us. but levy isnt the type to lie in business- and alli has changed his agent to a 'super agent' but the reality is all though in the past evy has sold his players - this is now a different time. good players all over the pitch - CL's on the spin, massive exposure uk/europe and worldwide increase and the fact that he would never have built a new stadium to then sell his best players.. he has to make money out of it, he is now gonna be able to get up with the big guys - the revenue increase can double in 2 years up with the arsenal, liverpools and chelseas. not up to man u's off course. Totenham for revenue is a very good team - the lowest top 6 club by double and triple the top.. how can he pay those players more with the revenue they make? so its just educated belief ..levy can not pay more- he doesnt have more to pay them at present. Well if he double Alli's salary it would cost him about £2.5m extra a year. They can afford it. But I suppose if Alli and other top stars are happy on their lot (for now), then Levy is being very shrewd here. I've never said he wasn't a good negotiator. The only problem is how costly would it be if some of them start getting pissed off, get their heads turned, and make their minds up they want to go? Even with the fees they will generate be hard for a club like Tottenham to replace them with top drawer players. |
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Post by runie on Nov 4, 2017 17:07:23 GMT
they will double the salary - well alli wants 150 - and to be honest he deserves it - but you know levy well be doing new deals based on kanes supposed deal - its supposedly 90m with a 30 m potential weekly bonus..
Alli can be paid a lot - but the problem is erikson and alderweild and bergoten are huge to the team as is llors and feel up there with Alli - and alli is only 21.. So they would want he same - or at least close. Alli is now proving his class - and in fairness Alli is the type of player to get more money than he is worth anyway - because he has the looks and the attitude, the british youth image, and the quality to be the face of the team . Kane of course is the true close to world class player as you can get and would have to be paid more than Alli what ever.
but if you increase one players wages based on his image others can get annoyed so its not 2.5 mill its a out 60m a year , you have to pay about 22 players 30k more on average to get to even 20k less than arsenal's average - Arsenal pay 56% percent on wages of revenue. , However just the sponsorship on the naming rights of the new stadium should make 60m a year..
you have to pay about 22 players 30k more on average to get to even 20k less than arsenal's average - Arsenal pay 56% percent on revenue.
Levies wage structure is based on a constant 50% of revenue, it goes up as the club goes up in revenue and if revenue goes down due to no champs league or whatever he sells players(this is my educated and my business knowledge opinion, i have no direct source- bar the figures and percentages).. he has a prudent philosophy and sticks to numbers - and one if things did go completely screwed in the marketplace (i can't see it - i think the psg moves will not take the transfer fees higher in the future and they will level out a bit downwards- i think it will have to go down and i think UEFA will make an example of PSG to aid it... But any way Tottenham would be a team that would survive in any crash...
tottenham have a solid morale even though they are paid less - erikson is only on about 65k.. i mean come on - he could get 200k.. alderweireld could get 200k. most players make a big song and dance about it - and walker did and rose has and alli has but they have kept it on the low down to keep morale up - walkers loss was a blessing in disguise anyway - the loanie from barnsley for 5 years comes in and plays like walker had zero technical ability.. 4 assists to kane - 1 to ali - bust up RM defenders the other night but no they are buying into the philosophy of the club with the english core - yes they need to be paid more - but they wont be paid top top money like city money or even arsenal money - but i am sure kane will go up to 200k , alli 125,, erikson and the defenders and loris similar and the subs will probably get 20k more etc. when the money is coming in.
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